My daughter’s SAT combined score is 30 to 50 points below the level students from her school who’ve been admitted to highly selective schools in recent years. However, she only took the test once, and there’s no super scoring which I think boosted past scores. My question: are these scores worth submitting, or just leave them out of the common app when she hits submit?
Hello, I’m an IB student and I’d like to ask some questions:
- My predicted IB grade is 40, is it too low for Stanford? Would I get a chance to get in with this score?
- Do universities take into account that predicted score (at least in my school) tends to go up later on as teachers base on the process and not a specific score to give predictions? I’m quite certain and my teachers also told me that I would get higher scores for the next prediction, but it’s after admission deadline already.
Thank you!
I have seen you note “competitive, but not compelling”. Although there are probably as many ways to be compelling as there are stars in the sky, what are some hallmarks of a compelling applicant?
One more question springs to mind, if I may: you’ve noted a couple of times that most seriously considered applications are all As. Does it make a particular difference if a non-academic subject (like compulsory PE) is a B?
Hello!
I am a junior, and I’m feeling very insecure about my class selection.
At my school, they offer 4 APs for junior year (nobody takes them all, most take 1-3). Unfortunately, I am only enrolled in 1 AP (AP chem), and everything else is honors (which is weighted the same as AP in terms of GPA). I am anxious that this will seriously impact my chances at schools like Stanford because I won’t be academically competitive.
How can I demonstrate my academic rigor and compensate for this mistake?
@Faulkner1897 It’s a good eye. That was my most common sign-off line when recommending rejection: “Competitive, but not compelling.” What makes an applicant compelling? Check out post #48: IV, POE, and Texture. Those are my three hallmarks.
–MCS
@SJ2727 Gym, regular art classes, home education–none of that counts. And it’s helpful to remember why: because you’re applying to be a scholar. We only count substantive academic courses in the big five subjects: Math, Science, History, English, Foreign Language. (Of course your advanced classes in economics or an AP Art class all count.) If you’re applying to the military academies, different story on physical fitness.
One small way to earn your admission reader’s appreciation is leaving off classes like gym when you indicate your senior courses on your common app. Trivial, but when you just list your 5 substantive courses, it’s a small signal you’re being very thoughtful about your application, omitting needless words, and presenting a clean-read for them.
And a final related point: That doesn’t mean taking an auto-repair class or Thomas Keller’s Masterclass isn’t valuable. Those types of classes are more like activities, and while they won’t factor into an academic excellence analysis, they will add lovely texture to your application and potentially IV if you write about them well.
–MCS
Question here: why is art not considered a “substantive academic course” for Stanford admission readings, even though art* is offered as an academic subject at Stanford?
*ARTHIST, ARTSINST, ARTSTUDI, DANCE, MUSIC, TAPS at https://explorecourses.stanford.edu/
There have been threads on these forums about students who are highly interested in visual or performing arts and are asking whether using high school elective space for extra arts courses (e.g. another year of band or orchestra) versus other academic electives of lesser interest (e.g. AP HG, ES, statistics, etc.) would “look better” for college admissions.
Thanks for doing this!
Would you advise a student with a 4.0 GPA to submit a 1470 SAT score taken early in junior year, or go TO? In other words, what’s the cutoff for a “good” SAT score this year?
@anchovymilktea No, your score isn’t going to prevent you from getting in, especially if you anticipate it going up. I’d imagine your teachers noted that in your letter. Everyone on international committee gets trained on how IB works and understands the importance of teacher’s underestimating predicted scores. I know the IB DP exam for May got canceled. But if you’re sitting for the November exam, you should have results in January ready to go to your schools–that’s plenty of time for them to be considered.
–MCS
So to be clear on concept, you’re telling kids that have required non-academic courses, which will include every kid attending a paraochial school, to tailor their Common App by omitting those courses, submitting to Stanford, and then going back and redo the Common App to submit to their other colleges, because that will earn brownie points for Stanford???
@fromseattle What’s her score and and what schools is she targeting? But if you’re in doubt, this is your year–don’t send them and don’t worry. As I’ve said earlier in this thread, I’m confident admission offices will not hold this against students this year.
–MCS
I would like to thank you for this AMA. I have learned a lot and I appreciate your time and your insight!
@socaldad2002 When I presented a student for admission at committee–and the Dean sat on one of my committees–no one ever accepted or rejected a student because of institutional needs. It never came up. For all my students, they were admitted or rejected at committee and that was it. And then I met them all at admitted students weekend. I’m just reporting my experience. If you want to get into the details on the committee process, Google Harvard Interviewer Handbook. That gives an in-depth guide into another elite school’s process.
No, I’m confident there is no way higher level leadership at Stanford is going to do some second review looking at test results. Dean Shaw is an ethical, good man: If he announces it’s test optional and won’t be held against students, he means what he says.
As I’ve said in other posts, lots of people were already skeptical of the value of test scores–some think they are a more a measure of access to test prep than intelligence. Your rigor and grades combined with your writing and activities, is plenty of data for them to work with.
–MCS
For clarification, were you doing readings in the early round, regular round, or both?
@skieurope Brownie points for Stanford? No. It’s the most thoughtful way to fill out your Common App. for all schools. This is the concept: You should omit needless information wherever possible. How you write about your awards, your activities, and yes–even your senior year courses–are all opportunities. Do that well and it all adds up to a clean, concise application that stands out. That’s why I also advise, if possible, not listing all 10 activities, not using all 650 words on an essay, not filling out additional information sections unless you have an extreme situation–and then being as concise as possible. Twain sums up the concept: “I wrote you a long letter because I didn’t have time to write you a short one.”
Admission officers are speed-readers. So when they scan your courses for senior year that you self-report on your Common App.–at the top schools–they’re just doing a quick check to confirm you’re continuing to push yourself and take hard classes.
Besides military academies, I’m not familiar with a college that’s going to credit your A or C in gym class. So why would you put this down on your senior class schedule you self-report on Common App? Admission readers will have your transcript listing all your courses–that’s the main document they will rely on. So I don’t follow your suggestion that you would need to redo this for other schools.
But as I said, it was “one small suggestion” and a “trivial” one at that. You’re jumping on a minor point. The main point was the answer to @SJ2727’s question: Don’t sweat a bad grade in Gym class. You’re applying to be a scholar.
–MCS
MCS - you keep referring us to the Harvard admissions process/lawsuit but it’s clear that certain applicants (e.g. performing elite sports such as sailing) have an advantage over similar academic applicants without a sport. If the admission review process is completely objective and the reviewers don’t take these factors into consideration, how do you account for these discrepancies?
Here’s a quote from The Atlantic (10/23/18):
“All applicants to Harvard are ranked on a scale of one to six based on their academic qualifications, and athletes who scored a four were accepted at a rate of about 70 percent. Yet the admit rate for non-athletes with the same score was 0.076 percent—nearly 1,000 times lower.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/10/college-sports-benefits-white-students/573688/
There is no shaping of the freshman class to meet institutional needs? The data seems to show otherwise…
Just a comment, if allowed: UCLA may not be a good example, as UCs have a reputation for much more heavily weighing GPA than, say, test scores (in a normal year) than top private universities and UCs theoretically were not allowed to consider race (although they may have done so last year in spite of being prohibited).
@kuma16 No need to be anxious, you’re just starting junior year. I’d connect with your college counselor–it’s good to build that relationship early. Make sure they know you want to be prepared for the top schools with a most-demanding schedule. Then I’d game-plan with them. Taking college-level courses over the summer combined with a full AP schedule senior year should do the trick.
But you’ll also demonstrate your academic and intellectual firepower in your activities: Do research. If you’re English-history, submit papers to writing contests. If you’re STEM, submit research to competitions like Regeneron’s Science Talent Search.
–MCS
@MichaelCShort Thanks so much for doing this. Admitium is awesome! For Stanford, would doing multiple internships at Stanford (one with a prof. emeritus) be considered a compelling trait in admissions? Would it help the student to a major degree? Would it look bad on the student as she applies to other schools?