Four years later. For those of you who have a child NOT going to an IVY, a STATE FLAGSHIP, etc

<p>I have not posted in 3 1/2 years. I figured it was time to update. This is for those of you who have a child that is not going to an IVY, a top 50, a state flagship, etc. Or for those of you who are considering your options, and are convinced that your child MUST attend an Ivy, a top 50, a state flagship.</p>

<p>I have two daughters. The first was not brilliant but was smart and motivated. She was hard working, involved, and was a natural leader. She had social intelligence and people skills. She did not always test well, but a sample of her writing and an interview was all it took for folks to understand. She went to a state flagship but it was a reach/match based on SAT scores. But she got there and thrived. She was originally a science major, but ultimately went into family and public policy. She graduated with her BS two years ago. She is graduating with a Masters in Nonprofit Management this spring. She is already employed full time with a decent salary and benefits to die for. She ran a campus philanthropy as an undergrad that raised $495,000 and that became her passion. She will do well in what ever she does.</p>

<p>My second daughter, did not fit that mold. She was smart, at times brilliant. Sometimes she was motivated and sometimes not. She could score well if she wanted to. She followed the beat of her own drummer. In math and science, she often grasped concepts and could figure out problems in ways that made it clear she understood the "whys" and the concepts more than her high school teachers understood. She would argue with her teachers that she did NOT need to show her work or do it THEIR WAY if she was able to come up with the correct answer, Every time. </p>

<p>Ultimately she was dual enrolled, and that was the best thing to ever happen to her in high school. She graduated with her AA a month before she graduated from high school. But she was NOT going to go far from home for school. She was a match for state flagships, and could have applied anywhere beyond that, but that did not interest her. Too far, too strange, and it meant leaving her looser boyfriend. She did not give a hoot about prestige. That left one option, a "directional" school. You know, one that is in your state. that uses E W N S or similar in its name, like a University of North State, or a Southwest State U. It is not a flagship. It is not even in the top tier. It is likely not even in the middle tier of your state. Lots of kids commute. Lots of kids there don't take it seriously, or are there to get a college education because their parents think that is where they need to be. There are also a fair amount of older students. It was either that or she was not going. And besides, with the scholarship money they offered, she would graduate loan free. LACs did not interest her, either. Too small. To clique-ish. None close enough. And we would not be eligible for financial aid, yet also did not have $40,000 a year to drop. </p>

<p>So we rallied around her decision, and supported it. It was too far to reasonably commute (thank goodness) and she agreed to live in the dorms for one year. If successful, she could move off campus to an apartment and move her 2 cats in with her. But she was NOT going to rush. And she was NOT going to get involved on campus. And she was NOT going to join organizations, or get involved. That was not her style. She would do it her way.</p>

<p>We decided that if we pushed her to the state flagship or elsewhere, she could crash and burn. And if she did we would have no one to blame but ourselves. And we did not really want her on a fast track to graduate at 20 with an undergrad degree and still not be quite ready for grad school or life. </p>

<p>So we gritted our teeth. And we endured the looks and comments from friends, neighbors, and such when we proudly told them where she was going. One neighbor in particular sent her D to an Ivy that year, and the next year D #2 to a top tier out of state flagship. </p>

<p>Fast forward 4 years. She is graduating this spring with two STEM undergraduate degrees. Two. She has been doing graduate level research with her PI. She turned out to be a big fish in a little pond instead of being a tiny fish in a big, scarey, deep pond. She rose to the head of her classes and stood out. Profs took notice. Two welcomed her into their labs. She likely will have a publication as first or second author out of her research. She applied to some of the best PhD programs in her field, and is wait listed at one ranked 7th for graduate school in her discipline, and has 2 acceptances at programs ranked in the top 30, with full 5 year tuition and fee scholarship, and nice living stipends. She still does not want to venture too far away for grad school, but luckily we have great options in our part of the US. I think she even surprised herself. She is in the middle of finishing up, attending visitation weekends (all expenses paid), and getting ready for the next journey.</p>

<p>She grew up, matured, and a year ago admitted that "she had given us an awfully hard time during middle and high school, hadn't she." She is now ready to go. She will flourish when she does. It would have been so easy to put our foot down and insist she go somewhere else for undergrad. As parents, were pretty controlling. We butted heads, we pleaded, we cajoled. She dug in her heals, and would not budge. </p>

<p>Funny, she was right about many things. She did it her way and succeeded. But about 2/3 of the way through undergrad, she asked me why she was at her university. Grad students in her lab were telling her she didn't belong there, she belonged at state flagship, or Ivy, etc. Why did I let her do this, why did I let her settle for less., why didn't she listen to me?? I had been "right" about things after all. I reminded her that she was in fact doing grad level research, and likely would not have had that same opportunity at state flagship. She was a big fish in a small pond, and had we pushed her before she was ready, she might have drowned in tht big pond. And we smiled and agreed she was where she needed to be. </p>

<p>And that looser boyfriend? He was gone in a year. And even she now calls him a looser. </p>

<p>So not all students are cut out for Ivy or top 50 or state flagship. But that does not mean that they cannot be successful and end up there for the next phase of their life. </p>

<p>And for those of you who have students who are cut out for an Ivy or top 50 or state flagship, but money is an issue, yes your child can be successful and go to Ivy for grad school from a "directional" state university, or similar college or university that is lower ranked but is offering a full ride, or enough money that you can afford it. If there is "fit," both academically and financially, please don't rule it out. If your gut id telling you something about your choice, listen to it. Do not make decisions based on prestige and ranking. If there is not a fit, don't do it. If there is a fit but no money, there IS another fit somewhere. And yes, students can bloom where they are planted. Sometimes you have no idea that the soil is more fortified there than you ever dreamed. </p>

<p>I will try to post again in 5 yrs :)</p>

<p>Congrats on the good results. And all within budget!</p>

<p>Thank you so much for sharing your story and wise words. We are on the verge on my older dd making a decision and money, fit and prestige will all be part of the conversation.</p>

<p>Very nice!</p>

<p>The op may find Malcolm Gladwell’s latest book of interest: David and Goliath: Underdogs, Misfits, and the Art of Battling Giants. In it he builds on this very premise, that one should never study at an elite college, but should rather choose a college where you are sure you can be the top student in your program.</p>

<p>In fact, on YouTube, he gives a talk (at Google) on the subject, just search on “Malcolm Gladwell - Zeitgeist Americas 2013”.</p>

<p>I’m not too sure of the conclusions he draws, but it’s an interesting idea.</p>

<p>This is a really nice story. Thanks for sharing, good insight.</p>

<p>Thank you for a most enlightened & personal account. These decisions weigh heavy on us as parents, not just the students. In the end success is how they define it, not society. </p>

<p>Thank you so much for sharing your story (and your daughter’s). As my husband and I prepare to support our oldest daughter during her decision making process, we have all been debating the big fish, little fish concept. I’m leaning more and more towards the big fish opportunities. Hopefully, whichever direction my D14 chooses, will be the best possible fit.</p>

<p>Re: Gladwell and David and Goliath</p>

<p>However, his assumption that one would do worse at a more selective college is not necessarily true, due to higher grade inflation at more selective colleges. I.e. he may be overstating his case, although many here seem to overstate the opposite case that any school that could be an admissions safety is somehow an unworthy school where a good student will not find a good experience due to lack of academic peers, etc…</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your story. So glad that things worked out well for both of your daughters. It’s a great reminder for all of us that there is more than one path leading to the same goal.</p>

<p>Isn’t it nice when things work out, and you didn’t take out a second mortgage or make student take out tons of student loans?</p>

<p>Congrats to the sunnyflorida family.</p>

<p>We had a similar situation. S1 had the “stats” to be admitted to lots of “good” schools and a ROTC scholarship to (mostly) pay for them. He wasn’t interested. He was set on our big state u.(3 hrs. fr. home) not the one considered the flagship. Some of his best friends planned to attend this non flagship big state u. also. </p>

<p>Turned out to be a great decision. S1 felt right at home from the first day. He was awarded two merit scholarships, had a great advisor who gave him personal attention and helped out with very tricky class scheduling (due to NROTC). He had a NROTC mentor whose help was instrumental in S1’s Navy pursuits. Graduated (debt free) with honors, had the time of his life and will be a proud supporter of his university for life. </p>

<p>Enlightening! I am glad she did well!</p>

<p>I could comment, but in the interest of feeling generous, I won’t. It’s great that you can provide a testimonial for the unsung schools that many, many students attend and go on to achieve happy productive lives, OP.</p>

<p>Congratulations to your good work parenting your kids! Your story is very encouraging. I’ve often wanted to be able to look in a crystal ball. With two in college and four to go, it’s going to be a while…</p>

<p>I wish I could like this post a 100 times! </p>

<p>Ok, am I the only one that loved this part?!? Speaking as a dad of a college bound daughter… :-" </p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus
I agree that he overstates he’s arguments, but I don’t think he’s main point is that they have higher GPA’s, but that they do “better” in college(more research, published papers, etc.) and after graduation. Of course, I also think he’s overstating these facts, but he has books to sale!</p>

<p>I do think there is something to his premise, as the ops case is an example. For those that go to a “lesser” school, but take full advantage of the opportunity, it can be a great choice. And for some students, going to a “better” school may cause them to be less likely to excel (by not taking advantage of the opportunity given…). </p>

<p>I really love this story and wish that more on CC would choose this route, or allow their kids to choose this route. We could possibly go a similar route with my current Jr ( except she wants to go far away, but could easily by a lower lever OOS with a good scholarship). My relatives would be very perplexed by this choice but I kind of like that idea. Good luck to your daughter…and thanks for the update from the otherside for those of us just taking the plunge</p>

<p>We have a “lesser” university in commuting distance and I have seen that those students who are intelligent and willing to work (many who chose to go there for financial or emotional reasons) are the students that excel. They stand out, professors take notice, and they are afforded many opportunities. Congrats to the OP’s daughter!</p>

<p>Thank you for sharing this story @sunnyflorida. It is great to hear these stories that help us see things from different perspectives. @gator88ne, Thank you for the info about David and Goliath talk. Interesting.</p>