<p>^^^they’re an expression of faith that is important to many people worldwide, so i’d appreciate it if you didn’t call them “absolutely terrible”</p>
<p>I mean really, if you’re against women exhibiting their idea of modesty for the sake of their religion, would you support a ban on hijabs too? Oh, and Mormon women dress far too modestly, let’s make them wear miniskirts. Oh, and what about some baptist women that only wear long skirts? Where does it stop?</p>
<p>Yes actually I don’t really like hijabs because the root of the tradition is that men are > women. It’s actually in Muslim scripture. It’s one of the fundamental rules, as our lovely Winston Churchill pointed out. I’m not saying modesty is a bad thing; I just don’t like that it’s a RULE in Muslim faith that you HAVE to be modest. But I see your point. Still, you could say that the modest clothing of some Christian religions is a personal preference of the woman, rather than a rule from the religion. </p>
<p>meh. what am I saying but giving you fuel for argument. I suppose they should be allowed to wear them, but I think the Islamic faith should edit out the part where women have to wear them. And I’m not making anyone wear miniskirts and halter tops, y’know. </p>
<p>^^ What does it matter if some vagrant ogles a girl? BFD.</p>
<p>Ok, I’m a very liberal guy and I don’t like the fact that it’s being banned in France because I believe that if it’s truly a choice, then women should be allowed to wear it. BUT, in my honest opinion, I really do think the burqa is a symbol of opression of women. I’m a male feminist so I tend to be, for the most part, really uncomfortable with the burqa. The biggest problem is that a lot of the time, women wear it because of societal pressures and what may seem like a choice is not a choice at all. If they don’t wear at least a hijab, they may be alienated from their Islamic community. So although many may “choose” to wear it, it is because they are trying to conform to the “norm” of a conservative Islamic society. Even in France, a lot of these women live in Islamic communities and there is still an immense pressure for them to abide by the word of the Quran (which btw, I think is extremely sexist along with most other pieces of religious text). Let’s however, for the sake of argument, assume that women who are wearing the burqa are facing no outside pressures and that it is truly a choice. In that case, I believe that women should be allowed to wear it. I would, however, still think that these women wearing the burqa are misguided because their reasoning is based on, what I think is, flawed, contradictory, sexist (and outdated) religious text. As you can guess by now, I’m an agnostic atheist.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? So you also have an issue with it in the Jewish and Christian faiths to then, right? Because they have the exact same rules. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You could say that. But you’d be lying. It actually IS a Christian rule, but most women don’t follow it. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First off- the Koran (or however you want to spell it) specifically says that the face does not need to be covered. It says that she should cover her head and her body and dress modestly.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As do I, but I do think the right should still be there.</p>
<p>It’s just a different way of life. That’s all. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to ban it because it is limiting freedom of expression</p>
<p>Freedom of Expression? That was a joke, right?</p>
<p>How would a woman be able to drive a car if she were wearing a burqa? Oh that’s right, in some moslem countries women aren’t allowed to drive. Or do they choose not to drive?</p>
<p>Roman…said:</p>
<p>Quote:
I really do think the burqa is a symbol of opression of women. </p>
<p>As do I, but I do think the right should still be there. </p>
<p>So you are saying the right to oppress women should still be there?</p>
<p>Besides the fact that the hijab existed long before Islam [as a cultural norm, not a religious one], the point of covering oneself as discussed in the Qu’ran is in fact to avoid being harassed by men:</p>
<p>Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. <a href=“Qur’an%2033:58–59”>…</a></p>
<p>Though many Muslims take a relativist approach- wearing a hijab or skipping the hijab altogether and just dressing modestly [I know many who don’t wear a hijab at all and just don’t wear revealing shirts, shorts or short skirts and many also who always wear hijabs and long sleeves as well], many also hold to older traditions such as the burqa. Additionally, many Muslim women who wear the burqa do NOT wear it because they are forced to. This isn’t a question of your personal beliefs, it’s a question of personal liberties. Not allowing a woman to dress in the manner she wishes that is not downright immodest [think public nudity or very close to it] is appalling. Why should she not be allowed to wear what she wants to? </p>
<p>Imo, banning burqas is just oppression masquerading as some sort of backwards “liberation”.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Using common sense… no that is not what I am saying. I am saying the right to wear these should be there. </p>
<p>And the burqa is not really a Muslim thing. This practice was in the Middle East centuries before Muhammad.</p>
<p>Vaginal circumsion is oppression.
Wearing a burqa isn’t.</p>
<p>^go on and speak the truth, girl <em>applause</em></p>
<p>damn 60 second rule…</p>
<p>Wearing a burqa is nowhere stated solidly as a requirement in any Islamic scripture or proven hadith. However, covering everything other than the hands and face is required. </p>
<p>“I just don’t like that it’s a RULE in Muslim faith that you HAVE to be modest.”</p>
<p>Well, it is a RULE in Christianity and Judaism as well, though only about 30 out of 100 of them are practicing Christians/Jews while 60-70% of Muslims are practicing Muslims hence they are seen more often following this RULE.</p>
<p>I guess the Virgin Mary must have been oppressed big time for not wearing short sleeves and covering her head.</p>
<p>This talk can continue on and on if some people here think that it is even ok for some hooligan to tease a girl (and by tease I don’t only mean playful flirting but also OPPRESSIVE rape). The single reason for the burqa or the hijab etc. is modesty. For people who do not want to or do not feel the need to preserve their modesty, it does not matter much. But for those that do, this ban will effect them greatly.</p>
<p>The fact remains, however, that wearing this is a choice. One can begin to argue that it is not really a choice if it is a norm in the society but that argument is meaningless unless one is physically forcing a woman to wear the burqa. Any form of oppression is not allowed in Islam, even one that forces half-hearted Muslims to obey the scripture word for word. So please do not blame the religion. Blame the faulty thinking of those individuals who believe they can force these things onto their society, etc. If you want to judge Islam, study the book first and then judge it. Do not do so by observing the ones you see in everyday life because most of them are confused and have little solid faith.</p>
<p>@romani
I said I was on the fence about the whole thing, Jesus Christ. And why do you assume I’m one of those Christians who hate Islam and all their silly rules, but not my own? I’m an agnostic, first off, and I equally dislike the rules regarding covering up women in all faiths. Is it really true about the part where women don’t have to wear some kind of covering? I"m pretty sure it is policy, except when you’re with family or your husband. </p>
<p>/agree with alam, for he is much more articulate than I</p>
<p>As for the free speech thing, I suppose banning burqas isn’t the way to go about saying that Islam is pretty anti-woman (Catholic church is too! I don’t support them, y’know! I’m with Sinead on that!), but all the same, I can’t exactly complain about the ban.</p>
<p>“^The burqa is supposed to be the choice of a woman.”</p>
<p>key words:SUPPOSED TO BE.</p>
<p>“I just don’t like that it’s a RULE in Muslim faith that you HAVE to be modest.”</p>
<p>that’s where you’re mistaken. it’s NOT;it’s a cultural thing.</p>
<p>Americans don’t understand French secularism.</p>
<p>HarveyLewis is correct, they’re the new Jews which sucks, not that there is anything wrong with Jews. The problem is the ape-s*** Muslims ruin it for the rest.</p>
<p>
K… where exactly was this? I remember you saying that you didn’t like them and all that, but where exactly did it say you were on the fence? Sorry if I missed that little tidbit. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uh… did I say that? I asked if you had an equal issue with the other faiths that require the same things. That’s all. I’m neither Christian nor Jewish nor any other mainstream faith. I don’t think it’s right to limit the freedom of any one of any religion. It is their religious right to do what they want to do as long as it hurts no one else. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Women (and men if I’m not mistaken) are required to cover themselves in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (according to the Torah, Bible, and Qu’ran). It is really only in the Middle East where it is still practiced by the majority. However, many conservative Christian and Jewish sects still practice this as well. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes… I understand that. I didn’t say it always was the choice of the woman. However, taking away that right is no different than making her wear it- either way, it isn’t her choice.</p>
<p>I’m done with this now. I think this law is terrible. It’s no different than in the Middle East where there is a law that you have to cover up. Both are equally wrong because both take away freedom of choice. </p>
<p>/my discussion</p>
<p>lol, the French. </p>
<p>Apparently, about 2/3 of American disagree with the ban, showing our love for freedom, which is good. I’m a little disappointed that the numbers weren’t more like 80-90%, but what can you do.
Not sure who took the poll, it was a somewhat reputable outlet though.</p>
<p>My friend who is French & Indian says whenever she is in France, people come up to her and ask her if she is Muslim. (***)</p>
<p>You mean random people she doesn’t know come up an ask her?</p>