<p>Do you think having colleges that are 100% free to attend is a good thing or bad thing, and why?</p>
<p>Personally I think some public schools should be made free, but not all. The ones that are made free should have strict admissions requirements, in order to not waste money on remedial classes, and only offer practical degrees. Liberal arts and "learning for the sake of learning" should still cost money, and there will be other public schools that offer those. They would be commuter schools with no housing.</p>
<p>Why completely free? Simple, because I believe that the ability to go to college should be determined by how hard you work, not how hard your parents worked.</p>
<p>Liberal arts is plenty practical depending on what you want to do. Not many of the “practical” degrees would be any more useful in my intended field than what I am doing right now. </p>
<p>First of all, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. What you want is subsidized education, paid by the people (the govt), for the people. Even if such a system existed, it may seem like it’s “free” to you, but such a universal system will be very costly for taxpayers. </p>
<p>I think the tuition costs for public schools should definitely be reduced, but it should not be “free.” The quality of education will decrease if tuition costs were eliminated.</p>
<p>Actually it would pay for itself by resulting in a more well-trained workforce. Right now America has a hard time competing in international markets, more college-trained workers with practical degrees would help immensely.</p>
<p>Cooper Union for the Advancement of Arts and Sciences is free - it’s a prestigous school with strong architecture/engineering programs. I think all their money comes from real estate (they own the chrysler building)</p>
<p>Many liberal arts subjects are practical, and make up the majority of majors. We need math/science for advances in medicine, engineering, technology, pharmaceuticals, agriculture, whatever. Social sciences like psych, sociology, and economics are obviously needed…actually out of the liberal arts fields, it’s Humanities which is arguably most “impractical”…and the Fine Arts i guess. </p>
<p>Room/board often costs more than housing. In my state, SUNY costs $5k/year and CUNY costs $2k…and I think housing costs more than tuition for many public schools.</p>
<p>Offering free tuition to the highly qualified isn’t going to make the work-force any more well trained because if these schools are set up as you say they’d be then they’ll mostly only be benefiting those who would already be going to college anyways.
If you’re qualified enough, though, or have enough financial hardship, then you already don’t have to pay much (if anything) for your college education.
This thread really doesn’t make any sense - a system that’s better than the one you’re describing is already in place in the form of merit scholarships and financial aid. It’s not fair to expect the general population to subsidize people’s college educations any more than they already are (which is a fair amount already).</p>
In that respect, life isn’t fair. You can’t help who your parents are or what opportunities you may or may not be given. It sounds like what you’re arguing for is socialism or even communism.
If you can’t afford college now, you have several options. If you are smart enough and you work hard enough, then you’ll earn enough financial aid or merit aid that you’ll be able to afford to attend at least a public school with little or no debt. If you aren’t awarded enough aid and your family can’t cover the costs, then unfortunately you’ll have to take out loans. While that may be prohibitive for some, there are plenty of people who find a way to make it work (such as living at home, attending a cheap state school, etc).<br>
I will agree that if there was a way to bring down costs throughout the entire system then that would be desirable, but it seems to me that the current system that many schools have of awarding financial aid to those in need works at least reasonably well without putting our nation further into debt.</p>
<p>Right, but they’ll have to be smarter and work harder than someone who’s rich.</p>
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<p>I’m just talking about making those cheap state schools, which are like $2,000 to $3,000 a year for in-state, free. Not too much money for the state government, but for a lot of people that’s a lot of money.</p>
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<p>Ah, the old, “if you disagree with my opinion you’re a commie” defense.</p>
<p>@Logic - in many countries, college is free. But it’s only for the smartest students, and basically they put you into different “tracks”. Based on your grades/test scores, you’re eligible for a vocational program (plumbing, carpentry, etc) or you move on to high school (their high schools are more selective) and only the top students go on to University. Is that kind of like the system you’re describing?</p>
<p>I just don’t think it would work in the US, it would require our entire K-12 system to be revamped and our higher education system as well. Right now a BA has become the minimum requirement for a 9-5 cubicle job that competent hs grads used to do. So for lots of workers, college is a complete waste of time, but that doesn’t mean fewer people will go to college anytime soon.</p>
<p>A college education is not a right, but a privilege.</p>
<p>You seem to forget that it costs an enormous amount of money to run a college. Where do you suppose they’re going to get that money? How are they going to pay professors, housekeeping staff, groundskeeping staff, food staff, health services, electricity, heat, etc? </p>
<p>The government provides a public school education to its students from pre-K to grade 12. Education at a higher level is a privilege. And No, I’m not saying a privilege only for the wealthy because I’m sure this is what you’re going to try to argue. It’s a privilege for anyone to delay going into the workforce right after high school. It’s a privilege to have the opportunity to attend college.</p>
<p>Alix makes a very good point. In Germany, you’re tracked into either vocational school or college.</p>
<p>In the US for some reason we think everyone should go to college even if they don’t want to or are much more apt to be handymen than businessmen or engineers. People think that only “losers” become plumbers or carpenters or electricians. Heck, my own mother looks down on me wanting to become a police officer even though most departments require a degree. </p>
<p>Anyway, there are some free or near-free options. If you’re incredibly smart you can get a full ride. If you’re very athletic and talented at a sport you can get a full ride. If you serve for our country you can get a full ride. Heck, you could just get loans and then find a job at a good place that offers tuition repayment.</p>
<p>What’s a practical degree? Engineering would probably be one of the obvious ones, but what about more abstract sciences? What about other areas that contribute to those sciences? Is business practical? Economics? I don’t think this proposal is really practical I also don’t think it’s a good idea for the government to step in and say one thing is essentially more important than another, especially given the strong inter-dependence.</p>
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<p>He didn’t say that it was a right. He’s arguing that people that work had should have earned that privilege, and the belief that they haven’t does imply that it’s only for those that can afford it (i.e. the wealthy).</p>
That adds up a lot faster for the state government that’s going to lay down upwards of $30 to $45 million (for 15,000 students, probably more in most states) as opposed to the student who’ll be spending $8,000 to $12,000 total if that’s the tuition. If they work hard enough they can probably bring it down to 3 or 3.5 years total and/or carry a job while in school so that it doesn’t all have to be loans. Even if you have to shoulder the entire $8-12 thousand on your own, it’s not going to take you too long to repay that. I think most people now that graduate with debt have a lot more to repay than that.
I don’t know if you’re kidding but I REALLY hope you are. I didn’t say that communism was a bad thing (it’s better than what we have now in some ways), but on some level what you seem to be proposing is definitely communism.</p>
<p>Which is why they can’t send their kids to college and their kids have to pay debt and on and on in a cycle.</p>
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<p>You have to think in terms of scale. $30 million for a state government is not that much. $10,000 for someone who doesn’t have much money to begin with is a whole lot.</p>
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<p>It’s called meritocracy. Meritocracy is based on equal opportunity. Communism would be if I wanted everyone to make the same amount of money after going to college, or if I wanted to reward everyone equally regardless of how hard they worked.</p>
<p>What you are in favor of is an aristocracy, where those whose parents are the most well-off are the most successful.</p>
<p>That is exactly what’s wrong with this country. I earned a full ride to a state school through academics. I also have my journey(wom)an’s license for plumbing. People told me I was “too smart” for plumbing (pretty much straight As, upper 30s ACT, Mensa member, all stuff on paper that points to “intelligence”). Truth be told, I would probably make a heck of a lot more money as a female master plumber than I will with my degree.</p>
<p>^ So true romanigypsy…plumbers, carpenters, electricians, and other practical careers earn more than the average BA. I think a lot of those skills are handy to have as well…I’ve always wanted to learn carpentry or woodwork, for example. I bet I could take some classes at the local CC and get a certificate. I know ivy league grads working at the local Barnes & Noble right now…certain skills are always in need of demand despite the economy.</p>
<p>in nations where college is free, taxes are higher to compensate, only the smartest students go to university at all, and often civil service is required. In the US we want low taxes, 70% of us want to go to college, and no mandatory civil service…and then some folks are always like, “well in ___ college is free! yeah!” :/</p>
<p>^ Exactly. And you can export engineering jobs, import cheaper doctors, etc. There are not many ways to export trade jobs. My dad is a master plumber and became one because of the recession of the 80s (and he couldn’t stand working at a desk for the rest of his life). He was never out of the job, that’s for sure. Trained me as well- made good money too when I was working.</p>
I also don’t think it’s a good idea for the government to step in and say one thing is essentially more important than another, especially given the strong inter-dependence.</p>