French tutor (or alternatives to classroom JR French class?

Applying to College
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<p>I know this may be a hard question to answer, but please let me trhow it out as a parent of a HS JR who is tremendously interested in majoring in French and having a career using French. Not to put value judgments on this, but she is #1 in her class, an extremely dedicated student, extremely dedicated to her studies (I can't take any credit for this because....she is adopted....from China!)</p>

<p>Sorry to get off track: She wants a French tutor to come to the house twice a month @ $55/hr. Do you think this will help her...developing her accent...learning deeper.....encountering encouragement? We can carefully afford it, but I want it to be meaningful and useful.</p>

<p>She does not like Rosetta Stone and has rejected other online resources I have suggested. Can you think of any alternatives to a personal tutor. Or is this a Yes! Go for it! Thank you so much!</p>

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<p>Is this the same daughter who got the 87 or 84 on her first math quiz and was freaking out? I was wondering if a math tutor would be more beneficial.</p>

<p>If she is taking French at school, I personally would not hire a tutor for her. Save that $100 a week and look into a French immersion program for her next summer. Really, that is the best way for her to accomplish her goal.</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound like this is essential. Would your daughter be willing to work to earn money towards this not essential tutoring?</p>

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<p>Is there a friend or family member who could practice with her? Or what about meet up? Some times there are foreign language groups who meet to practice. I took Spanish from grade 7-12 and two years of university, but did not approach usable fluency until I was immersed in a summer abroad. I would not bother with the tutor, instead look for a future opportunity to be immersed, if not in France, in Quebec?</p>

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<p>We know a person whose fluency improved by listening to French news broadcasts every night…and by reading French newspapers…all online. All free.</p>

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<p>You could sign her up for Concordia Language Camp, or (if you have the means), the Middlebury High School program - super intense, super efficient.
Otherwise, there are tons of free resources on the web. She can get familiar with French news reading Goldhammer’s French Politics blog, then read the headlines on Le Monde, Mediapart, 20minutes… She wan try and watch Plus Belle La Vie (a French soap). She can look at teenager websites like L’Etudiant or Phosphore. She can try and read graphic novels in French, such as Persepolis. She can watch French movies, just whatever strikes her interest without paying attention to film maker or age or whatever.
She could meet with the tutor once a month to discuss what she read and watched, or twice for 30mn for the same thing.</p>

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<p>Well, I’m so happy I asked. I’ve asked questions on CC here and there…and every time, my eyes are opened!</p>

<p>First, thumper, you are right – this is the same daughter who freaked out on an 84 or 87 or whatever she got on a Calculus test. Guess what? She got her Report Card on Friday. She has a 96% average in Calculus.</p>

<p>Her average is, and has always been, 100% in French. She is President of the French club and in the French National Honor Society. She scored 11th in the Country on the National French Exam, a big achievement. She just wants more, more, more.</p>

<p>I TOTALLY AGREE that a tutor will be of little help. All three girls go to Chinese school on Saturdays from 9am-11am, for 15 years (Oldest graduated, is now a Sophomore in College and took a full year of intense Chinese; DD2 skipped a yr at regular Chinese school and will graduate as a JR in Jan). All three–even the 12 year old–can read and write easily. Traditional characters, not the simplified. Can they talk? No. We are not native Chinese.If any of you know me, you know my precious daughters are adopted from China. Even the young Chinese parents at Chinese school (and their children–the students–or course), born in the US, cannot speak Chinese (the parents can because THEIR parents from Taiwan spoke nothing but Chinese until their kids’ first day in pre-school.)</p>

<p>MY HUSBAND CAN SPEAK FRENCH. He lived in France and during 27 years as a book editor taught the foreign editors in French. He helped his mother with complex legal issues and house sales in the south of France IN FRENCH. only a few years ago.</p>

<p>After reading your posts, he and I talked about a program where he and DD2 make a binding commitment to study French together from 8 am to 9:30 am every Sunday morning. He would design a program WITH her. I suggested merely reading Flaubert’s Trois Contes together, going over every sentence, verb construction, idiom…whatever arises…it would be fulfilling–the stories are wonderful!–and she would certainly progress. AND have qualilty time with her gifted father. He has an excellent accent.</p>

<p>We called DD2 downstairs to discuss. She is adamant that she must have this one particular tutor she found online-- a SPECIALIST tutor who has the exact curriculum materials already prepared to make her excel even higher on the National French Exam when she takes it next Spring. The tutor is $55/hr and will come to the house. </p>

<p>DH said let us TRY for three weeks. Of course, it would be ideal if there were a way for them to converse in French in a family, casual way. But this is an intense girl. But DD2 wants this tutor.</p>

<p>For really relatively minor issues, DD2 has a therapist. I wonder if I should email her about this as a topic to discuss with my daughter. Sometimes my judgment skills are poor. Would this be a bad idea.</p>

<p>Also, someone mentioned an immersion program during the summer. I will begin to look into programs with SCHOLARSHIPS (we have limited means). I would LOVE to send her to Middlebury for the summer! Or even FRANCE!</p>

<p>But a tutor–once every two weeks–no, it will not make a dent in her skill. How can I get that across to her?</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong; she is a very, very good generous girl, respectful to her parents, kind to her siblings, respectful to her teachers, no behavioral issues and always held in high regard by her teachers. She needs the therapist to help her relaxand learn that life is full of so many means and ways of reaching happiness and fulfillment.</p>

<p>Your thoughts and comments much appreciated!</p>

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<p>MyOS1634, we cross-posted. I will print out your post and give it to DD2, and FURTHER encourage her to follow her suggestions. Many thanks!</p>

<p>Anyone know the films Jean de Flourette and Manon of the Spring? She LOVES those. She brought them to school to school and lent them to her teacher. Her father introduced her to those, and several others. </p>

<p>And yes, she does find and watch old and modern movies on the internet (these places have all sorts of names–something called Roku). Thanks for your thoughts!</p>

8

<p>Yes I know them. Have her look for the filmed biography of the novel’s author, Marcel Pagnol - La Gloire de mon père and le Chateau de ma Mère. Also his first films, Marius, Fanny, César (it’s a trilogy).
The Class, by Cantet - 8th grade in Paris. Quai D’Orsay/French minister, a political comedy based on a (good) comic. Ernest et Célestine, a delightful animated film for 3+, can be watched by the whole family.
Le Petit Nicolas and les Vacances du petit Nicolas, for all from kindergarten on - 60’s retro style and shenanigans, plus she can read the stories.
In terms of other novels, I’d recommend Kiffe Kiffe Demain.
You can scour amazon.fr, “adolescents”, to see what French teens are reading these days. I think foreign books can be downloaded quite easily to a kindle.</p>

<p>If she’s allowed harder movies (NOT for under-14’s), Polisse by Maiwenn, about a child abuse police squad. De Battre Mon coeur s’est arrêté (dilemma: really being a professional pianist, or keeping up mob father’s empire?) In the House: a boy fantasizes about his teacher’s family. The teacher fantasizes about finding a son. It doesn’t end well. Le Passé (the past), an incredible exploration of family ties, choices, and tragedies.</p>

<p>8-9:30 on Sunday mornings sounds awfully early. Why not later, or at another time that may be more conducive?
The tutor, I assume, would come at a better time…</p>

<p>Getting a high score on that national exam is not as big a deal as being able to take AP French, then jumping into a 4th or 5th semester college class (I don’t know if there’s a college nearby, and whether that college may have 4th/5th semester French - that’d be post AP, depending on strength of the college program.)</p>

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<p>Look…I’m going to point out the obvious. Your husband and daughter should NOt plan to study together. They should plan to converse together…only in French…and they should do it a couple of days a week.</p>

<p>My kid did this with Spanish with a working colleague. They agreed to speak only Spanish for five hours they worked together on Saturdays. DD said this helped improve her fluency far more than any studying would do.</p>

<p>Your daughter needs to USE the language. Studying it more is not going to make her more fluent. And if your husband is fluent, it should be no difficulty to spend time speaking only that language.</p>

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<p>There were a couple of students at my kid’s high schools who were counselors at Concordia Language Villages French camp. Your D might look into that (depends on her skill level, but there were not native speakers who were the counselors). Going to these kinds of programs, even with scholarships, is really expensive. This would at least be something to investigate.</p>

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<p>thumper, you know I respect you professionally, and I am quite surprised by your remark, with much respect/ I don’t see how it is “obvious” that husband and daughter should not plan to study together. To me, this seems the best solution. This girl can be hot-headed and impatient, but very smart (1st in her class and yes I know that that doesn’t “really matter” in what makes up a life of good values/maturity etc). I think exactly what she needs to be be made to sit down patiently and work without outbursts and interrupting and be forced to concentrate. I still think reading a book together, line by line, would do a great deal–cover all aspects of learning the language–and give her a chance to READ OUT LOUD which she certainly doesn’t get enough time to do at school (or Chinese school AT ALL). I look forward to you enlightening me about how this is the wrong approach.</p>

<p>About the two conversing in French together, remember, she is just a JR in HS. True, she can write well, she can read well, she can follow a movie, but she cannot converse, certainly not fluently–she struggles to formulate out of the blue a single sentence. Sadly, back and forth conversation is out of the picture. IF she had a JOB or something of that nature where she was FORCED to speak French, that would make a difference. But with her plain old Dad, it woldn’t work. You said your kid had the privilege of speaking for FIVE HOURS with a spanish-speaking colleague. That would be ideal.</p>

<p>And yes intparent, anything expensive is out of the question.</p>

<p>MYOS, just curious, my does her grade on the AP French (which she will certainly take) matter more than placing among the top 11 of students taking the National French Exam? She took it as a sopomore wants to take it again as a Jr and Sr and score higher.</p>

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<p>My kid learned a foreign language more on par with Chinese than French as part of her Peace Corps training. The key to actually using the language was USING the language…not just studying the language (which she had done in an intensive study course…PC does an excellent job of teaching languages as you can guess). DD became quite fluent in this language in speaking, reading and writing…by using the language…not by studying it.</p>

<p>Your post is implying that your daughter doesn’t actually study for this course well by herself, but perhaps comes by some of it easily without studying. </p>

<p>I still say…conversation would be beneficial…very beneficial…if your daughter actually wants to become fluent in French.</p>

<p>My humble opinion.</p>

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<p>The key is USE - not parsing it but getting immersed so that your brain clicks and “uses” it naturally. If she’s not conversational yet - which is a big problem if she intends to major in it, as her college classes will expect her to understand and speak French at a rather high level - an intermediate solution is computer-mediated conversation. She “chats”, using Facebook or skype (only text, NOT speaking), on both an assigned topic (a news paper article, for example) and daily life events. Although it doesn’t include subvocalizing/making sounds, the brain records this as “conversation”. The delayed time for typing helps with processing speed, the conversation isn’t as stiffled as it’d be in real life, but it’s still conversation. Depending on her level, keeping the conversation going for 30-45mn would be a challenge.</p>

<p>If you’re interested I can match her up with a French 17 year old I know (30mn French, 30mn English?) -PM me.</p>

<p>The National French Exam is a nice achievement, especially with that ranking, but AP is more recognized, and will serve her better. In addition, my point was that if she can take post-AP college classes, that’d be the best if she’s really motivated, and to do that she either needs to take Level 3 or 4 at the college, or pass the AP exam.</p>

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<p>One of my Dds needed to become fluent in a language, she went to that country and worked as an au pair for several months, no formal paid program, it was about revenue neutral for her.
When I went to Mexico, it was not an expensive program, it was a friend of a friend who liked to encourage people to learn Spanish. Immersion does not have to be expensive, but really, truly, it is the only way to actually gain fluency.
Studying with her Dad is fine, as in it won’t hurt anything and can help her get more knowledge in the language, BUT it won’t make her fluent unless she practices speaking.
I don’t know what the purpose is for that national exam? What does she get/gain/etc. if she passes it?
I don’t see the point of the tutor, but I do know the struggle with trying to support your kid in their studies. My first thought about it is,'WHY" Why is that exam worth all that financial investment? The cost of that tutor from now until spring could be able the cost of the plane ticket to live in France for the summer, or like I said, Quebec.</p>

<p>To become fluent you have to be forced to talk, forced to try harder for the words, forced to think in the language. You have to go beyond mentally translating each word one at a time and begin just thinking entire thoughts.</p>

<p>She can watch French movies, I did that before a trip to France just to get the feel for the language. I also downloaded audiobook French lessons. Darned if every time I wanted to say something in French, the word in Spanish would pop into my mind, I guess all the foreign languages are stored in the same place in my brain!</p>

<p>I would recommend she take her DVDs and watch movies she already knows really well, you know, the way kids watch the same movie over and over, well, then watch it in French so she would understand what would be said in English and hear it in French. Also, using the French subtitles can be good, with English or French spoken.</p>

<p>I agree with Thumper in that practicing with Dad is a nice addition to her studies, reading and listening is not the same as speaking & not leading to spoken fluency. If her goal is actually to be speaking fluent, the most difficult thing, then she needs to be speaking & a tutor weekly is not enough.</p>

<p>Try Meetup, there is a French Meetup in West Nyack, NY; Ramsey, NJ, West Hartford, CT; Bethel, CT; Newburgh, NY; Norwalk, CT., etc. I don’t know which areas are close to you & what transport is like, but there are lots of options popping up on Meetup which would allow your DD to practice with others who want to practice French.</p>

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<p>Meetup sounds great - Bethel NY, Nwburgh, NY, both are not far from us.</p>

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<p>I wish my children faced this difficulty! At the same time, as a parent and educator, I would think that the key issue here is developing fluency, not mastering the task of the National Exam. </p>

<p>Someone who wants to major in a language or use it in their career should be working on connecting the abstract grammatical principles with decisions about what words come out of their mouth. Looking at my son.s experience with university language courses, students were expected to primarily speak the language in class after the first intro course, and exclusively by the third semester. Only when a student had progressed through the four-to-six semesters of core language instruction would they progress into literary and cultural analysis. </p>

<p>So, with that goal in mind, speaking with father, watching films, talking about them in French – those are the necessary skill to develop. Not scoring higher on an exam which reflects mastery of grammar and idiom, not fluency. A student who cannot converse comfortably would be uncomfortable in a second semester language instruction course and would be absolutely lost in a third semester university course. </p>

<p>Another vote against the specialized tutor to master the test. </p>

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<p>Great observations, Midwestmomofboys, I agree with you completely. My DD2 whom we are talking about is only 16, and she is overly obsessed with scores over content, deep understanding and complex thinking.But she is very young and a most absorbed reader, and with my guidance and encouragment, and her own maturity and development, I have great hopes for her.</p>

<p>My husband was very lucky to have been (gently) pushed by his mother and step-fatherwhen he was 16 years old–a good age for the brain to absorb languages, I’ve been told)–to join up as a guest from another prep school to attend what was then called “School Boys Abroad” with Phillips Exeter Academy/ He lived with a French family in Rennes for a year and achieved an incredible fluency in a year. Luckily, he was able to maintain his language skills by working for years with foreign guest editors at a “global company’s” headquarters.</p>

<p>I know that the road to fluency is absorbtion, but the money that sent my husband to France has been long gone!</p>

<p>If anyone has the time to talk about it or is interested, can someone explain to me what this National French Exam is all about–what it aims to do/show–why it exists and how it came about? I don’t know how my daughter stumbled onto it, but studying for it last year and achieving a high score meant a great deal to her. Her own HS did not offer it, and I had to go to a lot of trouble to arrange for her to have an arrangement made at her HS for a proctor oversee the exam. </p>

<p>My three daughters are adopted from China, and I cannot imagine them NOT having some understanding and instruction of their native language, although–quite understandably–their inability to converse is quite understandable, given that the class is only Sat from 9-11 (third hr is calligraphy). DD1 has benefitted, above her 15 years in preK-12th grade, from three terms of Chinese from college, and the other two understand that dropping out is totally non-negotiable. But the bottom line is, to achieve fluency, you have to live immersed in the language.</p>

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<p>Sorry to rattle on, thumper, but I just caught this. No, my daughter does study very well for the course by herself. I mean, we are in a rural HS, the work is not hard. Her grade in French is consistently 100% but it is not at all a struggle for her to achieve this. I was so glad when her teacher retired in June (a lazy teacher who chattered on about nonsense during Open House) but the new teacher is an improvement, but far from the role model my daughter needs. Although, because Spanish is so much more popular at the school, this new teacher has agreed to teach DD2 AP French next year one-on-one if she is the only student who wants it. I am very grateful for that. </p>

<p>No, beyond classwork, DD2 watches movies on her own and seeks out knowledge of all things French; sadly, DH is so overwhelmed with work and elder-care-duties, that in an ideal world, he would carve out a place in our family life to engage DD2 in a world of French of their own, but it does not seem possible. But it is glorious to have a daughter so deeply interested in a foreign language and planning a future around it!</p>