<p>My daughter (a HS senior) was at a party last week and was surprised to see a young woman who had graduated from her school in June in attendance. Turns out she had dropped out of her college and is planning to live at home and enroll in the local CC. This is the sixth kid that she knows from last year's senior class who has dropped out. It doesn't sound like a big deal but that number represents 10% of those members of the class who went to a residential 4-year college. These kids were all decent students in high school -- B+/A- averages -- and none had encountered major difficulties with the academic demands. Their reasons for leaving were all personal/social. No real common denominator, although 5 of the 6 had chosen to attend public colleges in the state. </p>
<p>How are the current crop of college freshmen from your son's or daughter's (or your) high school doing? Are there any recurring issues that seem to be influencing decisions to drop out of college?</p>
<p>"although 5 of the 6 had chosen to attend public colleges in the state."</p>
<p>I'm assuming by your user name that the state in question is NY...This is not the first I have heard of many students unhappy in the SUNY system lately, especially at some of the flagships...As an alumni, very disconcerting....In the situations we heard about, the university in question was Albany and the biggest problem noted was an exceptional # of students who played hard, but didn't "work hard"...Academics, to these students, seemed to be way down on the list....Not my alma mater, but what a shame....Some of the most successful and fulfilled adults I know attended Albany.</p>
<p>That being said, we also have a number of students from last year's class here who have withdrawn from their schools...Don't know the details, but some of them had never lived away from home and did not understand the time it takes to adjust....</p>
<p>I think the typical drop-out rate after freshman year is about 20% but it ranges from 2% at Harvard to 30% at less selective schools. At less selective schools, only 40-50% graduate within 6 years. Poor academic performance is the most common reason, but there are other reasons for poor academic performance. Too much playing, not enough studying. AKA immaturity.</p>
<p>There is a lot of drinking at the SUNYs. Not very good role models at the SUNYs, not even at the best SUNYs</p>
<p>I've heard way more stories about NY kids going to OOS schools and deciding they would prefer being closer to home and eventually come back to a NY school and it is often a SUNY.
So let us not assume that the SUNY environment is the cause for all this dissatisfaction.
I think immaturity, unrealistic expectations, and not used to being away from home plays a big part in adjustment problems. </p>
<p>And let us be real about drinking. It is everywhere. You are only fooling yourselves if you do not recognize this. There is a heck of alot more drinking going on in d#1's Ivy school than D#2's SUNY school. </p>
<p>I think there is too much negative sterotyping of the SUNY (and other public U's) student on these boards.</p>
<p>Marny: Yes, I do agree there is much SUNY bashing on these boards. That being said, the situation I posted about Albany has been repeated to me by students there more than a few times....Haven't heard nearly the same about Buffalo, Binghamton or Stony Brook (or any of the colleges)...</p>
<p>We're pretty close to Albany and at least one of the students who has returned home from a more distant SUNY hopes to eventually enroll at SUNY Albany. My post wasn't intended to prompt more SUNY bashing, it just so happens that as a NYS resident many of the kids around here end up at SUNYs. As for drinking, my daughter has said that drinking (either too much or too little) wasn't an issue that she had heard of in relation to any of the kids who have returned home.</p>
<p>In the latest Princeton Review surveys, for "unsightly campus", 5 of the worst 20 were SUNY schools.</p>
<p>Long line and red tape: 3 of the worst 20 were SUNY
professors make themselves scarce: 3 of the worst 20 were SUNY
professors get low marks: 2 of the worst 20 were SUNY
party schools: Albany
lots of hard liquor: Albany
least happy students: Stony Brook and Albany</p>
<p>Lots of kids seem not to have 'done their homework' regarding what school environment will suit really them... a kid who deep down wants a campus-centered experience picks a commuter school, or a kid who thrives with intimacy picks a huge school... mainly seems like stuff that could have been avoided.</p>
<p>In some cases, kids were simply not ready to be on their own.</p>
<p>Yes. Dorm life can be stressful. Kids who make noise and party all the time. Weird roommates. Its all there. So adjusting is a hard thing to do...and the academic demands are also tough...particularly at large state schools that can be cold and bureaucratic and have freshmen class sizes in the hundreds. MOST OFTEN they drop not because they arent capable, but because they were immature, unprepared for culture shock and sometimes because THEY were partying too much. It happens in private colleges as well.</p>
<p>So, its important to find a college where you fit academically, socially and otherwise. DONT accept an offer blind and unseen. GO VISIT after you are accepted and see for yourself. Its critical that you do that. You may have an Epiphany like we did......turning down offers you thought you would accept and accepting the college that was not on the top of your list. It happened to us and our D is now happy and THRIVING.......and doing VERY WELL in school. All because we took the time and focused on the essentials.....program, dorms, location, campus culture, TALKED TO PEOPLE THERE, and just an honest assessment of ourselves and what we wanted and what SHE wanted. </p>
<p>And when you get there, you must be disciplined and avoid parties. Just walk away and go to the Library. There is a time and place for relaxing and having fun...but drinking is NOT what should be done to relax. Bad move. </p>
<p>Some kids are asked to leave school for rules violations.</p>
<p>DD has said that she very much likes being a school with other smart people and that, if she were at a party school/school with lots of slackers, she might have fallen into bad habits. She felt the good fit when she visited before accepting the admission offer.</p>
<p>I don't know about the kids from our HS, but my S does have 3 friends that dropped out in their freshman year. I think it was mostly due to adjustment issues. It is so hard for some kids to adjust to the lack of privacy, learning to be independent, constant social pressure, etc. It is not necessarily a reflection on their academic ability or that they party too much. For some, being away is a lot to handle.</p>
<p>One got a job, one ended up at community college and the other ended up going to a school closer to home.</p>
<p>I'm sure you're right, LilyMoon. I wonder if students who have had more experience with being independence pre-college do any better in making the adjustment than ones who had limited independence. </p>
<p>The only thing that we have observed, as mentioned above, is that those who have never been away from home, seem to have a more difficult time adjusting.....I was never away from home before I left for college at 17, and it took an entire semester for me not to feel that homesickness......I think my kids will have an easier time in that they have spent summers away....</p>
<p>Depends on the family dynamics...are they overly sheltered and never been away from home? You typically see two results when that happens....one, they become troglodytes and hole up in their rooms, pull the shades and hide in books and get depressed and then one day, they are gone....too unhappy to continue. Or two, they take freedom too far and begin misbehaving and then withdraw for academic reasons, rules violations, or concerned parents.</p>
<p>The most well adjusted are fairly independent coming in the door, people who can be tolerant of others and accept some strange behavior and shrug it off, and people who are self disciplined and can buckle down when its necessary.</p>
<p>Some of the summer programs are helpful......W& L is a strong summer program...highly academic and live in dorms.....you find out in a hurry who can handle the pressure and the freedom and who can't. </p>
<p>Summer camp can also help at YMCA, being a camp counselor etc.</p>
<p>Or Youth in Government programs are helpful or Governor's School etc.</p>
<p>But party types come from all backgrounds and socio economic levels. MATURITY is not tested on the SAT.</p>
<p>Sometimes kids with uber stats are extremely immature. I know of two cases this year like that. </p>
<p>For most, its a tough and rough first few months...or they are fine until Thanksgiving then crash.....they get tired of the noise in the dorms at night, the cafeteria food, having to do laundry on a regular basis or risk being "dirty". Midterms are a wake up call. But if they make it to Christmas and pass finals....the norm is that they are much more relaxed and calm second semester....all that crazy excitement is gone and they settle down and say, "hey...I better buckle down and study."</p>
<p>My kid did the W & L summer scholar experience and it was awesome, though she is not in college there now. It was an excellent window into what college life is like for real.</p>
<p>I know two kids who decided not to stick it out freshman year - one from last year and one from this year. All the rest are thriving although one had a bit of homesickness. Anyway, the kid this year who decided not to stay found the kids at her chosen school too shallow compared to the kids that she had come to know while attending community college in California and there was too much emphasis on drinking as a way to have a good time. She felt the cc kids were more interesting and serious. I think this says a lot about our local cc.</p>
<p>This is prevalent where we are in Florida, but we have friends in California who say the same thing. The kids don't even last a year sometime, and come home to go to the state school or CC....live at home, "be near my friends" ,etc. I thought the point of college was to make NEW friends and have NEW experiences? I also didn't want to be anywhere near my parents at that age. Different times, I guess.</p>
<p>ricegal....could be......a lot of cc kids are trying to get 4.0 gpas so they can get into a prestigious 4 year college.....and many do! Sometimes kids in great schools already are just too immature to handle the freedom and responsibility.</p>
<p>And some picked schools too far away or they didnt do any "fit" analysis befoer they accepted and moved in......and now regret it.</p>
<p>It happens even at Harvard.</p>
<p>Lots of kids who come home do go back to school and try again....with more resolve and motivation to succeed.</p>
<p>when you think about it, it's strange that many of us have 'good' kids (no drinking, drugs etc in HS) and then, at the age of 18, we throw them into an environment that can be close to total mayhem... and we expect them to do just fine. Just think of it - they go from living in a reasonably calm and quiet home to living in a dorm with lots of wild and crazy kids their own age. A totally artificial environment that bears no resemblance to their past or to their future as a working adult. No rules, no boundaries, being sexiled, woken up by drunks in the middle of the night, roommate drama, etc. It can be fun at first, but if a kid didn't participate in this in high school, it can be overwhelming. why is it the norm and standard to send our kids away like this? It was necessary back in the early days of the US - when I assume that getting the education was the top priority, but now? I wonder....</p>