We were chatting with DS, who just finished his sophomore year in engineering, about how things have been going and if there are things he would go back and do differently if he could. Thought it might be helpful to post, for those considering engineering and for those who are getting ready to go off to orientation and register for the fall. Full disclosure: DS is a smart kid, but he’s had a bumpy road. Horrible first semester. Steady improvement the next 2 semesters. Last semester he failed a class and is retaking it over the summer. It’s not for lack of ability or interest – he did well in a rigorous AP course load in HS, had high SATs, and seems truly interested in what he is studying. For him, as you’ll see below, the time management aspect has been the hardest thing for him to deal with, and he hasn’t made enough changes to that to compensate for classes getting harder. He’s in a make it or break it situation now, and he knows it. Much of what is below is not rocket science and falls in the category of, “we told him so.” But he didn’t listen or take it fully to heart when we said it; now, 2 years in, and much bruised by the process, he’s saying it. So hopefully some of it will be useful, if nothing else as fodder for conversations.
Take AP chem and do well on the AP test so you can avoid first year chemistry. It was by far his worst/hardest class his first semester. And hard because tests would end up focusing on the most off-the-wall, side-content. This is not just his opinion. Our neighbor down the street was a freshman at the same school this year and confirms his assessment of the course; having been warned by my son about the class, he worked his butt off and studied more for chemistry than for any other class, and eeked out a C.
If you have taken AP calc and scored a 4 or above on the test(s), go on and take the credit and get ahead on the math sequence. Or, at least ask serious questions about how the first year calc classes are run/assessed before you decide to “retake” it, thinking it will be an easy A. Consider the difficulty in “going back” to the early calc material (e.g., epsilon-delta derivations, determining if a limit exists or not, etc.) after you already know how to do derivatives, L’hopital’s rule, etc., and being tested on subtle details about that material. The higher level math classes are often “easier” than the first year calc classes because they are smaller and they are not 100% assessed via multiple choice tests. At DS’s school, the first year calc classes have all common MC tests with questions drawn from different instructors; starting in the 2nd year sequence, the tests have 2 parts – a free response portion developed by your own instructor, and a common MC part. So, no chance for partial credit in your first year; some opportunity for partial credit in your 2nd year and beyond. DS could have placed out of the entire first year sequence, but chose to only place out of the first one. He wishes he’d placed out of both instead. Our neighbor who was a freshman this year who took the full first year calc sequence reported issues with tests being focused on material that his instructor had barely touched on … to the point that the instructor even indicated surprise at the test content on more than one occasion.
If you have taken AP English and get credit for it, take it. But DO NOT use the space that leaves in your schedule to “get ahead” on technical classes. This is what DS did, and it was a horrible decision. Either don’t fill the space up at all and give yourself an easier semester, or take a non-technical class that you’re just interested in. Over 4 years, the engineering curriculum gives you precious little opportunity to explore other interests. The sequence at DS’s school allows only 5 non-engineering electives over 4 years. Give your brain a break from the technical work, and give yourself a GPA boost.
Don’t study in your dorm room. Go to the library. Turn your phone off. Don’t go back to the dorm between classes. Go to the library. Turn your phone off.
Limit the # of EC groups you get involved in … and yes, consider church-related activities an EC. This is the one that has taken him the longest to acknowledge. He said the other night that he’s going to drop one of the ECs he’s been involved with for the last year because it just takes too much time. As much as he thinks he should be able to juggle it all, everything takes him longer than he thinks it will (not because it’s taking him longer than average, but because he woefully underestimates how long things take or how much time gets lost in transition), and he ends up with not enough time. Do not compare your ECs with those of others and think, “they can do it, I should be able to also.” This has been the hardest pill for DS to swallow. Some people juggle apparently effortlessly; some people do not. DS does not. Know yourself and what you need to do to do well academically, and then DO THAT.
Time management may be the biggest hurdle you face, not the academics per se. Learning to juggle absolutely everything about life on his own was his biggest adjustment, even though he’d been heavily involved in extra curricular activities and doing his own laundry and his own room upkeep for over a year before he left home. Learning to impose structure on himself, vs. having the implicit structure of family life around him (e.g., normal meal times, people getting up early to go to work/school, people going to bed at a decent hour) was the hardest part, he says … and not doing it well made the academics harder.
Educate yourself about the academic drop, withdrawl, and class retake policies (e.g., does your school do grade replacement if you retake a class or just averaging?) and timelines of your school. Use them wisely to protect your GPA. DS was very naive about these things and soldiered on his first semester, when perhaps dropping one of his classes would have been a better move. TALK TO PEOPLE about the issues you’re having, and listen to what they have to say about what they would do … and those “people” should include your parents.
Don’t “ease into” the semester. Hit the ground running and over-prepare for your first tests. Then, depending on how you did, adjust and maybe ease back a little. You likely only have 2-3 tests during the semester, so recovering from a bad one is incredibly difficult. If you didn’t do well, do not wait to start going to office hours and/or get tutoring. Don’t just resolve to, “just do better” … be proactive and do something concrete to make that happen.
Study groups are great, but don’t just study in study groups – they lead to a falsely high impression of your individual level of mastery. And be brutally honest with yourself … “just” making arithmetic errors on homeworks or when prepping for a test is the kiss of death for subjects that are assessed via MC tests.
Don’t be satisfied with beating the average on tests, especially for classes that are curved at the end of the course. The people who drop the class will be the ones at the bottom of the distribution, which means that if you’re at/just above the average, when that happens, you’ll be toward the bottom of the class.
Don’t give up when you fail a test or get a bad grade in a class. Assess what went wrong, talk to people about your situation, and come up with Plan B.
Turn your phone off! My S19 already does this. He rides his bike to the library and leaves his phone at home. I hope this sticks. None of us had this problem back in the 80s!
^^ @lostaccount, not necessarily. As we’ve researched other schools for DD (who will be a senior next year), one question we’ve specifically asked is about how the first year classes are assessed and the use of online homework, tests, etc… All the big engineering schools we’ve looked at apparently now use similar approaches. On the other hand, a friend whose son is the same age as DS who attends a smaller school, has not reported these issues, and seemed horrified at the very idea of MC calc tests (as was I). If nothing else, it’s just a flag of issues to investigate with whatever school you’re considering.
Agree, unless the major requires more advanced chemistry courses. In that case, the student can try the college’s old chemistry final exams to see how ready s/he is to take the more advanced chemistry courses. Of course, realize that chemistry courses are often pre-med weeder courses as well, so skipping them if they are not crucial prerequisites for more advanced courses (and one is not pre-med) is useful to avoid that as well.
Trying the college’s old final exams for the courses that are allowed to be skipped can give a better idea on how ready the student is for the following course in the sequence.
Humanities and social studies courses are not necessarily easy A courses. Whether to use the schedule space to advance in technical course sequences or for other humanities and social studies courses now depends on the student and the how critical the prerequisite sequences are. Also, some schools’ engineering curricula have more humanities and social studies requirements and/or free electives than five.
I have to disagree with the not retaking calc and chemistry. My daughter did not have them in hs so had no choice but to take them, but her friend moved directly to calc II and was lost. She also assumed chem was too easy so spent the class time not paying attention. She withdrew from school by Halloween. Most of the students who skipped calc I struggled in calc II.
My daughter had a very successful first semester. I credit it in large part to the requirement of 8 hours per week of study tables for athletes. In the library, checked in, every night. My daughter took over a table and had her laptop, her tablet, books, and a white board. One of the most useful things she did was teach a lesson to her friend, an athlete, who missed several classes for games. She’d realize when teaching him that she didn’t quite understand something and then go back and make sure she did have the material down. Because she did so well, the study table requirement was dropped and she didn’t do as well in other semesters. She’s done fine, just not as good as that first, very structured, semester.
Sometimes it helps to check the sub-reddits for specific schools, too, on the issue of re-taking Calc, chemistry, etc. Of course it is anecdotal but can be insightful sometimes (like CC in that sense).
I also like the idea of looking at the syllabus and old tests from the next course in the sequence before deciding to skip.
There is no universal right answer to the question of whether to retake calc or not. Depends on the school and the student. Just raising the issue that one should not assume retaking calc will result in an A for the course. We’ve had admissions reps from different schools come down on both ends of the issue. Some have said in general the kids who “retake” don’t do as well as they hoped they would and the ones who go on instead of retaking do as well or better than they thought they would. At least part of it may be mindset – the assumption that it should come easily because it is a “review” meets the harsh reality that college calc is not HS calc. And the assessment method I believe does matter; some people do well with MC tests, others do not. I was the Queen of Partial Credit and would not have done nearly as well with all MC tests. Again, just raising the flag as something to specifically, carefully consider based on your individual student and school.
Seconded on AP Chemistry and AP Calculus BC credit.
General Chemistry I & II are ridiculously difficult. If you have it, take the credit and run. If you’re in a chemistry-heavy major, you might want to take the Honors Chemistry sequence (if your school has it) instead. Alternately, you can begin organic chemistry your second semester of freshman year once you’ve gotten used to studying for college.
Multivariable Calculus and Ordinary Differential Equations/Linear Algebra aren’t too bad and should be manageable for a freshman.
Tip: Anyone can copy homework answers from the internet. Copying does not equal understanding. If you are not struggling with the homework problems and battling your way through them, you are not going to be able to do them on an exam. Homework solutions manuals should be your LAST resort, not your first.
^^ Disagree to a point. Schaum’s Outlines (dating myself here…), old homework sets, and old exams are great tools to have from the very beginning if used properly. Having a solution to look at when you are up against a block in your understanding can be helpful. But not to copy the solution. Look at the solution, understand what they did that you weren’t doing to get the answer (many, many times it is in the setup of the problem). Now, close the manual, start with a fresh set of paper, and do it yourself. Did you get it? Good. Now do another problem, even if it isn’t assigned, and see how you do. Repeat. Alot. Do as many problems as you can get your hands on before an exam and check your solutions to be sure you’re getting it right. Even just going through and setting them up can be helpful. Familiarity with different approaches to setting up and solving problems and recognizing which ones to apply quickly are essential on exams. Even if you’re getting the homeworks completely right, if you’re having to feel/figure your way through them, you are not ready for a test.
Not to sidetrack anything but asking simply out of curiosity…what is considered “the sweet spot” for # of credit hours per semester where you’re not overwhelmed and have room to drop/adjust a schedule if something happens? Just curious what are the thoughts since some mention don’t go too far ahead into the curriculum than necessary, especially if technical.
Another tip: When you set a problem up differently than the solution and it seems like a correct way to do it but you can’t get the right answer, don’t chalk that up to your way being completely wrong. First, yes, understand the way the solved problem works and why. Then, GO TO OFFICE HOURS with both solutions. Ask the question – I understand why this way works, but I thought this other way would work as well, but it doesn’t seem to. Can you help me understand why it is not a correct approach? Sometimes an alternative way won’t be right because you’re overlooking or violating something in the process. If so, you’ve just learned something to avoid and increased your understanding. But sometimes an alternative way is correct, but is alot harder/longer and you have to apply extra steps/properties/etc. correctly in order to make it work out, and you may have just made a mistake in one of those areas. Again, you’ve just learned something you wouldn’t have otherwise. Figuring out multiple ways to solve a problem, even if one way is much more efficient/easier, is a great way to deepen your understanding.
@atomicPACMAN07 For engineering majors at a lot of schools, you can’t graduate in 4 years without taking more units per semester/quarter than the general student population. That’s not even going ahead, it’s just trying to stay on track. Occasionally you may get a light semester/quarter if you came in with some AP credit, but to stay on track in engineering most terms will have above average number of units. I guess the sweet spot would be the least amount of units you can take that quarter and still stay on track with the engineering curriculum flowchart.
My DS is heading into engineering as a freshman in the fall. Your first paragraph, I thought you were writing about him. I bookmarked this thread before I even got to the tips part. Thank You
Thanks @youcee for the reply. With my circumstance I am coming in with roughly 40 credit hours of credit and I am trying to fill gaps in to get myself to full-time status and not overwhelm myself with technical courses. As I stand right now advisers want me to start taking thermodynamics and statics my second semester freshman year since I have so much credit…I am trying to gauge if this is good or bad in terms of a freshman schedule.
@atomicPACMAN07 – to me, that sounds like alot to jump into your first year. I’d take a wait and see approach, depending on how your first semester goes. You can always go on and register for the classes, and then drop them or switch one of them out for something else after you see how the fall goes. You don’t know how you’ll handle the adjustment and the juggling until you are actually there. Don’t try to plan too far in the future, and stay flexible. Good luck to you. The other thing is, and advice we actually got on a visit to Alabama with DD, don’t rush through college. If you have all these credits, then use the extra time and flexibility you have to take other classes you’re interested in, or get involved in research, or do a lighter semester and study abroad, etc., etc., etc… College is a very unique time and place in which you will have access to opportunities and resources you never will again. Don’t rush it. Take advantage of as much as you can while maintaining good academics.