<p>There are 50 academic scholars at Duke per year. Several are geared towards URMs (the Howard scholarship), North Carolina residents (the Trinity scholarship), and high caliber students that takes into account financial need (the University scholarship). </p>
<p>In truth, only about half of these 50 are likely to be NMS. Duke probably has about 90 or so NMS if you ignore all Merit scholars (again, not sure why you'd do this).</p>
<p>Also, whats the deal with this comment:</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is not surprising considering Duke significant efforts to become as prestigious as the ivies.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Last I checked, Duke ranked higher on every ranking than several Ivies (not that most rankings matter, but the point is that Duke is thought of at the same level as Ivies)...Duke is trying to become the next Stanford, its already as good as non-HYP Ivies.</p>
<p>"Calling those sports "tiny niche sports" seems to imply that those sports aren't competitive and that to me is an insult to student-athletes in those sports."</p>
<p>I was thinking of, just to stay in the s's, (and avoid a kid I know on the dressage team)... synchronized swimming, squash, and sailing. They are particularly proud of the synchronized crew, national champs several years running at swimming in time. Yes, it's hard. No, I couldn't do it. Most schools don't award scholarships for it. I thought there was an analogy. I certainly didn't mean sports like cross country (dear to my heart), volleyball, or swimming. Didn't mean to demean any sport, or insult a kid who worked hard at what they were good at. I was just saying schools get to pick what they pay for.</p>
<p>Non revenue sports vs. big money sports are (as Alton Brown says on the Food Network) "that's another show".</p>
<p>Last I checked, most of us are aware of the flaws of dubious rankings, yet they are here to stay. That is not the point here. I believe what really matters is the academic quality of the institution in question, and there is no question about the quality of a Duke education. By trying to justify Duke's rankings in a very discredited ranking and flawed list, you are just belittling the institution. Duke's credentials speak for themselves.</p>
<p>Duke does not need to be the "next Stanford". It just needs to be the best Duke can be. And as far as what you like to call the non HYP ivies, Duke will never have the prestige nor the cachet of belonging to that club. Unfortunately, that is something that you seem to be having a problem dealing with.</p>
<p>I agree with you. Duke is very well known, especially in the South. </p>
<p>Too many prospective students could only dream of the ivies being less attractive, no matter how turned off they might get from CC worship. Just check out their low acceptance rates: as a group of schools...the lowest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And as far as what you like to call the non HYP ivies, Duke will never have the prestige nor the cachet of belonging to that club.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You do realize Duke students are stronger statistically, win just as many or more prestigious scholarships, place just as good or better in all professional programs, and have better placement onto Wall Street than at least 3-4 (maybe 5) Ivies, right? I mean, these are all facts, publicly accessible. Like, in just this thread, its clear Duke attracts more National Merit than every Ivy aside from HYP. I might argue Columbia and Penn have a slight edge on Duke in a few of these categories (research, Wall Street placement), but the difference is not significant. </p>
<p>Some "club"...</p>
<p>Your extreme non-HYP inferiority complex strikes again...have fun working on that Harvard transfer app while I go tailgating on Saturday...</p>
<p>^^^Again, please, stop comparing Duke to the ivies. Duke does not need that. </p>
<p>It is not too hard to figure out who is the one with the inferiority complex. I will not engage you in your personal attacks. I am beggining to feel sorry for you. You know well where I was accepted EA. No need to seek transfer to one of the institutions that I turned down. </p>
<p>What's your deal, man? Either you like Duke or you don't like it. MB is not putting down Duke academically. It is not an Ivy League school, so what? There are plenty of very competitive schools in the country, small and large. Stanford and MIT are not Ivy League either. Stop your comparisons. You are looking pretty pathetic now.</p>
<p>I'm trying to say that Duke is equal to non-HYP Ivies...obviously I'm going to mention this when MovieBuff for some reason thinks Duke isn't as good. After all, he claimed Duke doesn't attract as many NMS as the Ivies even though it very clearly does...</p>
<p>I could care less if Duke was in the Ivy league...I do care when students who attend non-HYP Ivies pretend like Duke is not an equal. After all, the OP discussed the number of National Merit Scholars. Its very clearly stated that Duke attracts more non-sponsored Merit scholars than all but 3 Ivies. Yet somehow MovieBuff posted that NMS don't go to Duke as often as Ivies...which is factually incorrect. </p>
<p>Also, MoveBuff, you go to Brown right? So yeah I do know where you go. I got in there too, too much green for me though.</p>
<p>^^^ I have never said that Duke is not as good as any other school and I have never "thought" that either. All I have said is that Duke, is not an ivy, which it is not . Stanford, unquestionable awesome as it is, is not an Ivy either.</p>
<p>The prestige and cachet of the Ivy League goes beyond numbers and rankings. It is not just about "academic quality" and you seem to have a hard time acknowledging that. "The term has connotations of academic excellence, selectivity in admissions, and a reputation for social elitism." Princeton notes that "the phrase is no longer limited to athletics, and now represents an educational philosophy inherent to the nation's oldest schools."</p>
<p>Is Duke a great university? Yes. Do you get a top notch academic education comparable to Harvard and the rest ? Yes. Is a Duke graduate as competitive as a graduate from other top colleges? Yes. Does Duke have the cachet and prestige of the Ivy League? No. Who cares? . It may matter to some people and it may be meaningless to others.</p>
<p>By the way, since you like to keep bringing it up, you also know that I turned down Harvard and Yale, for Brown. So if i have an inferiority complex, is not going to be about that. I also got a likely letter from Duke (top 350 letter), but I wanted a more suburban, quaint, north east feeling and Durham sucks.</p>
<p>Movie Buff stated NMS don't go to Duke as much as Ivies...and that is factually incorrect. Please go ahead and read the previous posts and see that he did indeed say that. </p>
<p>Regardless, the inferiority complex doesn't exist at Duke (far away from Ivies, school spirit via athletics) as much as the lower-tier Ivies. NMS is just one of many indicators that have Duke on par with other top schools. </p>
<p>And sure, I got into Harvard and Yale too. And Brown - but I have an Eric Cartman-esque view of hippies (jk, but the social circles there were too small and drug oriented for me). The only thing that differentiates any Ivies and Duke is the social atmosphere, not academics. </p>
<p>Serchingon...I don't think you understand what I was actually arguing, and also don't see where any ownage occurred.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was thinking of, just to stay in the s's, (and avoid a kid I know on the dressage team)... synchronized swimming, squash, and sailing. They are particularly proud of the synchronized crew, national champs several years running at swimming in time. Yes, it's hard. No, I couldn't do it. Most schools don't award scholarships for it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Apparently, you know very little or nothing about Sears Cup. Synchronized swimming, squash, and sailing aren't even included in the Sears Cup. Stanford isn't even that good at squash and sailing. They "are particularly proud of the synchronized crew"? Did you make that up just to further your ridiculous bashing?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Can someone rank the schools with the highest Merit Scholars (without sponsored by college)? Let's see how elite State Us compare with the ivies and prestigious privates. Thanks.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Seems kind of silly. Once a student accepts a college-sponsored national merit scholarship, he/she is no longer eligible for an NMSC scholarship. If a student could receive both forms of scholarships, how many of UFlorida's or UOklahoma's scholars would have received NMSC scholarships as well? And as a result, how many ivy recipients would have been denied NMSC scholarships? There are too many unknowables to come up with any meaningful numbers. The prestige of the ivies is not dependent upon NMSC scholarship recipients and the fact that some state U's have similar gross numbers does not diminish the prestige or the ivies one iota.</p>
<p>rank based on non-sponsored, school with old rank, merit scholars 2006, school-sponsored, non-sponsored, merit scholars 2005
1 1. Harvard U. 294 0 294 287
2 9. Yale U. 186 0 186 232
3 10. Princeton U. 153 0 153 180
4 10. Stanford U. 153 0 153 194
5 16. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 135 0 135 131
6 19. Duke U. 118 0 118 117
7 22. U. of Pennsylvania 100 0 100 101
8 24. Brown U. 94 0 94 62
9 32. U. of California at Berkeley 70 0 70 50
10 33. Dartmouth College 69 0 69 64
11 4. Washington U. in St. Louis 241 175 66 169
12 34. Cornell U. 64 0 64 35
13 36. Columbia U. 62 0 62 71
14 3. U. of Texas at Austin 250 192 58 262
15 37. U. of Michigan at Ann Arbor 58 0 58 59
16 41. U. of Notre Dame 56 0 56 49
17 6. Northwestern U. 198 148 50 174
18 14. Rice U. 140 90 50 163
19 47. Georgetown U. 50 0 50 42
20 2. U. of Florida 257 212 45 230
21 7. U. of Chicago 196 159 37 187
22 5. U. of Southern California 206 174 32 190
23 13. U. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 144 113 31 138
24 17. Texas A&M U. at College Station 134 103 31 136
25 66. U. of Virginia 31 0 31 36
26 8. Arizona State U. 189 159 30 156
27 69. California Institute of Technology 29 0 29 44
28 17. Vanderbilt U. 134 108 26 175
29 77. U. of California at Los Angeles 25 0 25 113
30 14. U. of Oklahoma 140 116 24 146
31 21. Georgia Institute of Technology 106 82 24 100
32 26. Brigham Young U. 88 65 23 110
33 28. U. of Alabama at Tuscaloosa 82 59 23 68
34 66. Johns Hopkins U. 31 8 23 50
35 12. New York U. 145 123 22 113
36 85. Amherst College 22 0 22 23
37 20. Ohio State U. 115 94 21 97
38 90. Carnegie Mellon U. 21 0 21 22
39 23. Carleton College 99 79 20 89
40 37. U. of Georgia 58 38 20 49
41 27. Purdue U. 84 65 19 86
42 30. U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 76 57 19 23
43 83. Pennsylvania State U. at University Park 23 5 18 22
44 85. Pomona College 22 4 18 21
45 25. U. of Arizona 93 76 17 103
46 31. U. of Minnesota-Twin Cities 75 58 17 59
47 39. U. of Maryland at College Park 57 40 17 44
48 54. U. of Washington 43 26 17 38
49 83. Boston College 23 6 17 14
50 94. U. of Wisconsin at Madison 20 4 16 29
51 28. Baylor U. 82 68 14 66
52 53. Harvey Mudd College 44 30 14 57
53 41. Boston U. 56 43 13 66
54 47. Case Western Reserve U. 50 37 13 63
55 47. Michigan State U. 50 37 13 50
56 52. Clemson U. 45 32 13 31
57 44. U. of Kansas 52 40 12 71
58 45. Emory U. 51 39 12 56
59 50. Iowa State U. 48 36 12 53
60 55. U. of Arkansas at Fayetteville 41 29 12 50
61 39. Indiana U. at Bloomington 57 46 11 19
62 56. Bowdoin College 40 30 10 24
63 59. U. of Mississippi 38 29 9 36
64 60. Grinnell College 36 27 9 45
65 60. St. Olaf College 36 27 9 41
66 63. North Carolina State U. 34 25 9 37
67 35. U. of Tulsa 63 55 8 83
68 66. U. of Kentucky 31 23 8 39
69 77. U. of Miami 25 17 8 32
70 85. Southern Methodist U. 22 14 8 10
71 85. Tulane U. 22 14 8 46
72 51. U. of Nebraska at Lincoln 46 39 7 60
73 56. Macalester College 40 33 7 51
74 73. U. of Central Florida 28 21 7 19
75 90. Oklahoma State U. 21 14 7 16
76 45. Tufts U. 51 45 6 53
77 60. Wheaton College (Ill.) 36 30 6 29
78 64. Brandeis U. 33 27 6 18
79 64. U. of Cincinnati 33 27 6 18
80 90. Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 21 15 6 14
81 90. U. of Tennessee at Knoxville 21 15 6 21
82 43. Oberlin College 53 48 5 53
83 69. Auburn U. 29 24 5 29
84 76. U. of Iowa 27 22 5 30
85 81. U. of Rochester 24 19 5 32
86 85. Whitman College 22 17 5 19
87 94. Furman U. 20 15 5 32
88 69. Denison U. 29 25 4 10
89 73. Washington and Lee U. 28 24 4 26
90 77. U. of South Carolina at Columbia 25 21 4 40
91 58. Louisiana State U. at Baton Rouge 39 36 3 41
92 69. Calvin College 29 26 3 22
93 73. Miami U. (Ohio) 28 25 3 13
94 94. Rhodes College 20 17 3 8
95 77. U. of Missouri at Columbia 25 23 2 19
96 94. Truman State U. 20 18 2 15
97 81. Mississippi State U. 24 23 1 32</p>
<p>It is too bad that after a couple of years at Duke you are still agonizing over your decision and perhaps you regret not taking Columbia's nor Cornell 's admission's offer. You were in fact rejected from Princeton after being waitlisted there and you were also rejected from MIT and U Penn. I am not too sure about Brown. You were not admitted to Harvard, nor Yale either.</p>
<p>I understand now your obsession of comparing Duke to the non HYP ivies, some of which also rejected you. </p>
<p>For someone who applied to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Cornell, Brown, Columbia, U Penn, Lehigh and Williams you got some nerve suggesting that you do not care about "prestige". As a matter of fact, the only thing that all those schools have in common is their elitism and top academics. There is not a single program that ALL these schools have in common. They all have different environments and will "fit" one differently. That is just a big red flag indicating an applicant VERY interested in prestige and rankings.</p>
<p>With the above profile, your comment of turning down Harvard and Yale is really far fetched. You had to choose from Columbia, Lehigh, Wiliams, Cornell and Duke from the top colleges. Since Duke is a jock school, you may have decided to go there because of your interest in weighlifting and the social scene. Now, you seem a litttle left out out there in the South. After all, Durham is not Manhattan.</p>
<p>Give it up. Project that "narcissistic" frustration into your bodybuilding. You have been owned for ....a while.</p>