<p>The full-need schools, especially ivies, are excellent at continuing financial aid at similar levels, and your daughter will have NO loans coming out of Princeton. If you can swing it, Princeton will be wonderful! There are so many opportunities at high-endowment smallish schools. FWIW: DD started out ling major, but decided she was not interested in the sound analysis stuff -almost mathy stuff, so changed majors. Majors change a lot in college at flexible schools; not so easy to do at Berkeley. Also, it is easy to graduate in 4 years from small private U's; not so big publics. If it ends up taking your daughter an extra semester or two, will the cost savings going to berkeley still be there? Just a thought..</p>
<p>Princeton for the undergraduate experience. I understand your reservation about having your daughter to the other side. We are in NJ. Our daughter only applied to one west coast school, Stanford. Luckily, she didn't get in. I am going to assume myau is Asian (I am Chinese), so I am going to be very frank, I would send my kid to Princeton over Berkeley for diversity (strange isn't it?). She'll get a very different experience than what she's grew up with, and that's what college is all about.</p>
<p>We're in NJ too (South). Air travel...Princeton is midway between Phila and Newark so you can look for the better deal. Honestly I don't think I wore a heavy coat half a dozen times, if that, this winter. Fall and spring are lovely in Princeton and winter is nothing like Chicago or upstate NY. Also you're just an hour by train from Manhattan, a plus for someone from the West Coast.</p>
<p>The word that comes to mind re Princeton is "special". Perhaps from growing up in NJ where Princeton is king...it's where every smart kid would like to go, but very few get the chance. Princeton is a special place. Berkeley is a top school but for undergrad especially I doubt anyone would use that adjective.</p>
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<p>I am going to assume myau is Asian </p>
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<p>Nope. :) But I know what you mean.</p>
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<p>winter is nothing like Chicago or upstate NY</p>
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<p>Is there snow at all?</p>
<p>Most years there is snow, but the amounts will vary.</p>
<p>I had to chuckle reading this thread and others where parents express their concerns. The perils of the fearsome New Jersey climate! One thing that CC has done is give me insight into the minds of Californians. :) </p>
<p>On the other hand, I have to admit that I did think about The Big One when I considered sending my S to California. :)</p>
<p>As the parent of a recent Cal student some comments on the postings: in the humanities, it is not difficult to get into classes, the classes are not huge, it is very possible to graduate in four years, TA's only teach the lower division language and freshman English classes (and there are graduate students running "sections" -- that is also true at Princeton, where they call them preceptors rather than GSI's, as I understand it). It is not hard to change majors (depending, of course, on the requirements). The weather is great -- and a lot warmer than NJ. (My Cal student spent the last few years in NY and thinks the winters are way too long and the springs too short before it gets humid.) The linguistics department is one of the best in the country; it is an established program with a full faculty -- no problem of putting the program together yourself. And a Regent's Scholarship is a big deal.
But Princeton has some great pluses too: residential colleges, smaller undergraduate population, a name that raises eyebrows, especially in the NE.
If your daughter loves it there more than she loves Berkeley, and you can afford it, it would be a great choice. If she loves Cal, that would also be a great choice and you would save a significant amount over the 4 years.</p>
<p>uh, Einstein even chose Princeton. Enuf said.</p>
<p>myau:</p>
<p>Does the extra cost at Princeton factor in term time and summer time employment for your D? If not, she could earn some of the shortfall from the Cal offer. Say, she worked for 10 hours a week, that would net her about $2600. She could make another $2,500-3,000 during the summer.</p>
<p>Einstein attended college in Zurich</p>
<p>marite, </p>
<p>they included about 2.5 K of work-study into her FA. For this year, she will have about the same amount as National Merit Scholarship, so, as we understand the rules, it will eliminate the work-study part. (BTW, we are not sure what happens if she still tries (for example, instead of summer work) to find a job on campus in her freshman year: will she not be able to do so? or will they cut her grant then?). Even though she is now eager to work as much as she can to easy our burden, starting this coming summer and all other summers as well as term time, personally, I think, she needs a break this year to preserve her health and sanity for the upcoming college years. Her high school workload was insane :( (and whoever knowing her hears about the idea of her working THIS summer, tells us right away that the idea is crazy and we should forbid it ;)).</p>
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<p>If it ends up taking your daughter an extra semester or two, will the cost savings going to berkeley still be there? </p>
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<p>Hopefully, it wouldn't happen (unless she goes overboard with constant changes of major ;)). Her AP's and SAT scores should take care of most Cal's general ed. requirements. If not for her various interests (as well as intention to double-major, to be as active university musician as she had been a h/s one and to learn zillions of languages ;)), I would even hope of her graduation in 3 or 3.5 years as many similarly bright kids of our friends did at Cal. ;)</p>
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<p>Princeton for the undergraduate experience</p>
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<p>My D asked me tonight: what IS that "undergraduate experience", anyway? ;) How do I explain the concept to her? :)</p>
<p>Myau: i apologize if I am making assumptions, but it sounds like you'd prefer your daughter to go to Cal for a variety of reasons. If finances are truly the deciding factor, then you should clearly let your daughter know that so that she can make the decision based upon money. If you think you can swing it, I suggest backing off at this point and letting your daughter make the decision alone. She has visited both schools (and will visit Cal again) and is clearly bright enough to do any additional research that is warranted for her academic choices.</p>
<p>I know that we bear our kids' stresses and that we want to help them as much as possible. This is, however, her life ... and she needs to move forward and not look back once she's made her decision ... knowing that the decision was truly her own.</p>
<p>I agree - it sounds like you all want to make the decision for Cal, and like your daughter has made her peace with it. Congratulations. Enjoy. </p>
<p>However, for clarity, the "undergraduate experience" at Princeton is this: the majority of your fellow students live on campus with you all four years. Your residential college provides on mode of belonging, your eating club yet another if you choose that route, your department yet another as it is small and you the undergraduates form the majority, your independent research - junior papers and senior thesis - yet another as you choose your advisor from amongst Princeton's senior professors. I never took a class taught by anyone but a professor. I had one precept (discussion section) taught by a graduate student, in Philosophy 101, a very large introductory course. The professor - who lectured - did lead some precepts but I couldn't fit them into my schedule.</p>
<p>At Princeton the university takes you into its well-resourced and verdant hand and says, "Little scholar, we assume you are capable of brilliance. Now show us how. Oh, and BTW, here are a myriad of ways to have fun and work in activities and social venues." </p>
<p>But that's not without its issues.</p>
<p>At Cal your daughter will be one of many more kids. She will live off campus for the most part. She may join a sorority however. She may find her way to professors just as brilliant. </p>
<p>At Princeton the issues of coping are handled, except of course the emotional issues around growing up, and the kids focus on academics and achievement and recreation. At Cal kids have more other things to cope with, getting the courses they want, finding a social niche, etc. </p>
<p>But that process can be valuable in and of itself. And is, I would say, for many. By sending your kid to Princeton you give them a few more years to focus on their studies in school and in activities without using so many coping skills on just the basics. But is that ideal? I don't know. It's a choice I made, knowing my kids, without family finances impinging, and coming from a family that valued higher education above all else.</p>
<p>Cal is not Princeton. Princeton is not Cal. I would not try to make this decision by trying to dismiss the "Princeton undergraduate experience" as a myth. It isn't. But it is by no means the only or even for everyone the optimal path.</p>
<p>I have had to make my peace with why not a UC by telling myself my kids will get the benefit of the urban experience, where you have to be on your toes and focused on making sure you get your fair share, once they graduate and enter the wider world. But it's a tradeoff. Just make sure you are clear-eyed about what kind of tradeoff it is or isn't.</p>
<p>Again, there are a lot of assumptions here about Cal that are just incorrect: it is not a stressful place to go to school -- it is not hard to get classes; California is far more laid-back that the NE, the students are unpretentious and there is less sense of class heirarchy. Yes, Princeton has become more egalitarian, but its legacy and much of its appeal is its elite heritage. Not to say that it isn't a marvelous educational institution -- but so is Cal. Residential colleges can be wonderful. But kids also love the independence of living in apartments, and there are a lot of apartments near the Berkeley campus. In your situation, I would be sore tempted to push for Princeton (though my younger son was admitted to Princeton and visited and didn't like it -- too many "popped collars" and not enough music opportunity for him -- he also didn't choose Cal with a Regent's scholarship...); but don't dismiss the value of Cal, and the lesser stress of not having to work while going to school or give up summers to a menial job rather than a nonpaying internship or music festival.</p>
<p>Just one point to clarify. Princeton's "elite heritage" is not at all part of its appeal for this family. And while there are many wealthy kids there, I have never seen or heard of "class hierarchy" manifesting itself. There is one eating club, Ivy, with a reputation for acting as though there is a class hierarchy but the rest of the students joke about it. The eating clubs do however create a visible set of categories to belong to - and kids who are uncomfortable with that and aren't happy with the eating club alternatives will not like Princeton. But it's not a hierarchy, more like my club is better than yours in a peer-to-peer competition.</p>
<p>Tonight Princeton has the annual all-school dodge ball competition:).</p>
<p>The stressful reputation at Cal, I agree, I don't have first-hand data, this is just the report of various classmates and other Internet denizens. My apologies if the stories of difficulties getting into required or requested classes are false.</p>
<p>I live in California, it is more informal than the Northeast, but Princeton is in a suburb and in fact when I went to school there I chose it because its environment is so peaceful.</p>
<p>Princeton for the prestige and even more so for the undergraduate experience. Princeton - wow!</p>
<p>Need to add a little more to avoid becoming a deluded Princeton supporter.</p>
<p>There are popped collars at Princeton. More than at Berkeley. There are more kids in pink and bright green. But I have seen no evidence that the dominant self-ornamentation aesthetic contributes to "elitism" or "social hierarchy". I believe that's the great myth about Princeton and I just don't think it's true. Maybe kids at Princeton are overall more willing to accept a social structure than at some other top institutions?????-but that's really just me stretching to give credence to a stereotype. And in any case, that would just be the social kids, there is a large population of kids less fond of large group socialization and they could give a hoot about all this. The four year residential colleges are strengthening the environment for this group as well.</p>
<p>There are probably more very rich kids at Princeton than Cal. There are more Asian kids at Cal than Princeton. I believe there are more African American kids percentage-wise at Princeton than at Cal. I am not sure which place has a higher percentage of lower income families, given Princeton's financial aid.</p>
<p>But absolutely Princeton is suburban, not urban, and prone to a sort of scrubbed clean style amongst the students. </p>
<p>I just want to be accurate about the school culture, having had a chance to see it evolve, as an alum and a parent, over the past 30 years.</p>