<p>OK guys, have at it. The more real facts and stories from actual experience the better. For the sake of argument, assume $$$ is not an issue.</p>
<p>If money isn't an issue, your daughter should go to the school she likes best. The valedictorian at my son's school is choosing Berkeley with a Regents (As of this minute). Her best friend is choosing Stanford. I am sure others would choose Princeton.</p>
<p>What does your daughter like about the three schools? What are her dislikes?</p>
<p>Most people will say that she shouldn't! Berkeley is a top notch school, but Princeton and Stanford are just too good. Berkeley graduate school is a big contender, but for undergraduate, it's all about Princeton/Stanford. I will say about Stanford that I find it very antiseptic, if that's the right word. Too scrubbed and polished. I don't know a whole lot about Berkeley yet, but it seems much more lively and interesting.</p>
<p>More lively and interesting is the correct answer. The campus and city are the most alive places in the world. Palo Alto and NJ? Yawn.</p>
<p>Agreed she should go where she feels it's right. Will be flying and driving around the country to accomplish this. It's just that I am very familiar with both Princeton and Stanford, and not very familiar with Berkeley. I can figure out the more obvious - we live near Stanford she should go east, she wants to major in Psych Stanford is best, etc. I just don't have any Berkeley data. What is great about it from the inside? Note: She also has a Regents and is a finalist for an Alumni Scholarship. We are appropriately grateful.</p>
<p>Sheesh, my mom barely knows how to use a computer, let alone browse internet message boards...</p>
<p>Sheesh. Hey, I spend my days with people who eat high-performance transactional databases for lunch....</p>
<p>I would say berkeley because berkeley, at least from what I have heard about stanford and princeton from folks who have visited the two campuses, seems to be a more realistic environment. It seems like because of berkeley's location you are able to experience some of the problems of the real world, and not the happy puffed up atmosphere of suburbia. It also seems like in berkeley there are many different groups of people, and not just "preps" or "asians." </p>
<p>There are so many different people in berkeley that it gives you a small glimpse of the make up of this world in a way. Being a state-run school and also being cheaper than private schools there are people who might be the next nobel prize winner (and we have produced many of those), but just can't afford to go to a high priced school. </p>
<p>i guess my point is that she should choose berkeley if you want a great education in a real-world environment, or stanford/princeton if she wants a great education in a very nice campus.</p>
<p>Oh, sorry you also wanted stories:</p>
<p>I am currently a high-school senior going to berkeley high (another gem of this city), and I took some classes at UCB. I loved it there, some of the professors are so great they make you want to stay in the class forever. My math professor for example: Calculus is not a subject that you want more of (usually!), but at the end of a semester with Dr. Stankova, I wanted to learn more from her and not leave her class. She was just that great.</p>
<p>But then of course, there are the professors who will put you straight to sleep. I hate to say it but i've already had two of these. </p>
<p>But i suppose good/bad professors are everywhere, not just at berkeley.</p>
<p>another thing i love about berkeley, even though my math class had 500 people in it, I was still able to meet and make a few buddies within them. The people are really awesome, even though classes are curved, even though by helping somebody you might hurt your own grade, there is still a tendency to help within the student-body. </p>
<p>If you are a "go-getter" the opportunities here are nearly endless. I worked (Me! a high school student!) in one of the labs here at cal, working under a grad student. It was really really fun doing this, and reaffirmed my choice of biology as my major. I did not apply to work in this lab however, I just went there and talked to the professor who did not mind me working there at all.</p>
<p>I cannot think of anything else at the moment, but I will post more as they come to mind. There is a certain "vibe" to berkeley that I cannot explain in words, so it is hard to think of specific examples at this moment. Sorry!</p>
<p>What makes Berkeley great besides the academics (which the other schools you mentioned have), is the energy level of the school. Big Brother is right. The school is lively (sometimes you can just float on the energy) and Berkeley is a great college town. I graduated a long time ago but I visit several times a year.</p>
<p>Lately, I witnessed a huge Palestinian-Israeli debate at lunch time in the middle of Sproul Hall and a pro choice-pro life demonstration. I love the demonstrations. </p>
<p>This week, the Kirov Orchestra is coming, Wayne Shorter will be there, always stuff happening. <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/calendar/%5B/url%5D">www.berkeley.edu/calendar/</a></p>
<p>Berkeley is more middle and lower class than Stanford and Princeton. Fewer private high school students end up at Berkeley; although more private high school students from the bay area end up at Berkeley than anywhere else.</p>
<p>I, personally don't know anybody not enjoying the place. My nephew goes to Stanford and absolutely loves that place.</p>
<p>You went to Princeton. I am sure you have very fond memories of Princeton.</p>
<p>Your daughter lives near Stanford so she muct have visited. How did she like it?</p>
<p>dstark, My daughter loved Stanford. Her visit there was short. She loved Princeton the first time we visited, but when she spent the night she was with girls who were not her cup of tea, and her opinion changed. However, she is pretty clear that that was just one group of kids and not necessarily representative. And I adored Princeton myself.</p>
<p>She will be going to the admit days at both Princeton and Stanford to really look at the places again. In both cases she will stay overnight in a dorm. Unfortunately the OSP at Berkeley filled up too fast. So she's going to Cal Day but I don't know if that will be the right kind of information. I am hoping that if we give the office a call she could visit during a school day this month.</p>
<p>What you say about the energy, and the demographics, are exactly what appeals to me in principle about Cal. I just didn't know if my theory about the place was true, you have confirmed it. Thanks. My D is a "go-getter". However, she also loves the feel of a group, of being known in an institution, and of belonging. Does Cal offer that? If so, how? Will the Regents have an impact?</p>
<p>This is one of those times when no checklist data will swing the vote, it will just be her call as to what feels right for her. Luckily she has an extremely well-developed sense of self. As her kindergarten teacher said, "One thing about (x), you always know how she feels."</p>
<p>I knew that what drove me nuts in a five year old would be a good trait in an eighteen year old.</p>
<p>Alumother, your daughter is going to prosper wherever she goes. You have to be a go-getter at Cal, while there are so many things to do, you do have to seek them out.
Everyday, there are tons of clubs advertising themselves in front of Sproul Hall.</p>
<p>I hear this stuff about professors not having time for students on BBS like this. I graduated in a different century, but this was never an issue for me. The professors always wanted to talk to me outside of class. I never wanted to talk with them. :) I would definitely ask current students about this.</p>
<p>I have a friend who has a son at Berkeley. This kid has a Regents. I know the kid loves the school, but the Regents has never come up in conversation. He did have trouble getting into a chemistry class. I asked his father if his son would have trouble graduating in four years and he looked at me like I was crazy. He said no, but his son may graduate in five years because he wants too.</p>
<p>Do you know any students currently at Cal? Do the counselors at your daughter's high school know any current students? Maybe, one of those students will let your daughter stay there overnight. My daughter would, except she is in Michigan. So maybe, you can find somebody who will do this.</p>
<p>My guess is your daughter will know whether she likes Cal or not, pretty quickly. My daughter hated the town of Berkeley when she visited at 17. The town made her nervous. Now at 19, she loves the place and goes there all the time when she is in town.</p>
<p>Your daughter has some great choices. Congratulations. It has to be exciting times at your house. Enjoy.</p>
<p>Truthfully, if I were from the bay area and money wasn't an issue I'd go to Princeton. Maybe its just me but getting away(far away) from the place you grew up and going to a new area that's outside of your comfort zone really helps you grow as a person.</p>
<p>I personally am of the conviction, after having been here at Berkeley for several years, that the mental toughness and drive to succeed here that you will be forced to develop here will be much more useful a habit than paying $41,000 a year to go to a private school will yield.</p>
<p>That being said, someone who has what it takes to succeed will succeed anywhere, and considering the choice of schools that is probably the case. One should definitely go to the school (especially if they are undeclared) where they simply can see themselves living for four or five years.</p>
<p>Alumother:</p>
<p>ALL will provide a fantastic education. Since both S and P have inflated grades (easier to graduate with honors), I'd recommend either of those over Cal. Plus, the privates have better pre-professional counseling. If she likes better weather, move to the farm, otherwise go east young woman. But, like your D, my S found something off-putting in NJ...perhaps the guide was just too way over the top: think valley-girl-speak, but brilliant, and a list of ec's that would put kids on the board to shame.</p>
<p>Alumother, since you truly want your D to find the best atmosphere for her, I am sure she will pick the school she likes best. That is what it really come down to. If at this stage of her life she feels she wants to stay closer to home, Stanford will be a contender in that area. If she wants a totally new geographic experience, Princeton is the best choice. I frankly would not pick Berkely except for the financial end simply because of the bureaucracy in a school that size. She has already been shut out of a preview day!! That can be the story of your life at a state school. Not to say that it is not a learning experience in itself, but unless the atmophere there says its definitely for her or the money is an issue in that she may prefer to spend on some great adventure of the sort that Mini is so good at listing, I would prefer Princeton or Stanford.</p>
<p>jamimom, I truly respect your opinions. What you say clarifies something for me. There's one thing in life my D most needs. An identified community to work in and on. As I said, she likes institutions. I do worry that the Berkeley community will be so big that she will be left working on, paradoxically, a smaller community that what she could affect at Princeton or Stanford. Bureacracy is a sympton of very large organizations, where you can't use personal influence to get what you want. Which is what she likes to do. Now of course, would she hone her skills by trying in the Cal environment or be dispirited. Maybe better to save the large organization for grad school where the community is your department in a way it usually isn't for undergraduate? I am really thinking out loud here.</p>
<p>Luckily absolutely everyone agrees it's her call. So we will see, as you say, if the atmosphere is definitely for her or she wants that money, or if instead she's on her way to Princeton or staying home at Stanford. This is going to be an interesting three weeks.</p>
<p>well not to scare you but, this story just came out several days ago.</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>Fifty incidents reported on Princeton University campus. </p>
<p>Princeton Borough police charged a Princeton University graduate student Wednesday in connection with more than 50 incidents of harassment targeting Asian women on the Princeton University campus.
Michael J. Lohman, 28, of Butler Avenue was charged with two counts of recklessly endangering another person, two counts of tampering with a food product, one count of harassment and one count of theft. Butler Avenue is part of the Princeton University's Butler Apartments complex off South Harrison Street, and police identified Mr. Lohman as a graduate student. He is associated with the applied and computational mathematics department.
Investigators linked a report from an Asian woman who said an unidentified man cut a lock of her hair March 11 while she was riding a shuttle on Washington Road to reports of a white man seen pouring an unknown substance into women's drinks, according to police.
Mr. Lohman is believed to have placed his own bodily fluids into drinks being consumed by Asian women at various locations on the Princeton University campus, police said. Most of the incidents occurred in the Graduate College dining hall.
He also may have squirted body fluids on Asian women riding the university shuttle on many occasions, police said.
Mr. Lohman also stole clothing from Asian women on campus, according to police. Women's underwear and numerous mittens were recovered during a search of his apartment, police said.
Police said he was transported to the Capital Health Systems at Fuld for evaluation, and he still is in police custody.
The borough police department is requesting that individuals who suspect they might have been a victim contact Detective Sgt. Nicholas Sutter at (609) 921-8108.</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not trying to cause alarm, because I have yet to see how Princeton deals with this situation. They may just give him a fine. </p>
<p>Also, one thing that bothered me about some ivies was that lately, the President of Harvard said some very offensive remarks about women engineers, and no other ivies objected. This kind of remark just doesn't go very well with Berkeley's philosophy and higher ranked faculty. (#1 ranked faculty in the world according to London Times). Also Berkeley engineering has the highest amount of women out of any engineering department in the US. For that to be able to happen is a result of university faculty philosophy and direction. I used to teach SAT Math, and girl students always had a jump in their math scores once I explained to them what I had learned in my viewpoints at Berkeley. There are no secret behind the scenes restrictions on your mental potential at Berkeley, I can guarantee that. </p>
<p>I chose Berkeley over UPenn and Cornell. I am originally from Los Angeles. Hopefully your daughter will be happy where ever she decides to attend.</p>
<p>well not to scare you but, this story just came out several days ago.
[Quote]
</p>
<p>Fifty incidents reported on Princeton University campus.</p>
<p><a href="http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/2005/wabc_040505_sex2.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/2005/wabc_040505_sex2.jpg</a>
(picture of criminal)</p>
<p>Princeton Borough police charged a Princeton University graduate student Wednesday in connection with more than 50 incidents of harassment targeting Asian women on the Princeton University campus.Michael J. Lohman, 28, of Butler Avenue was charged with two counts of recklessly endangering another person, two counts of tampering with a food product, one count of harassment and one count of theft. Butler Avenue is part of the Princeton University's Butler Apartments complex off South Harrison Street, and police identified Mr. Lohman as a graduate student. He is associated with the applied and computational mathematics department.Investigators linked a report from an Asian woman who said an unidentified man cut a lock of her hair March 11 while she was riding a shuttle on Washington Road to reports of a white man seen pouring an unknown substance into women's drinks, according to police.Mr. Lohman is believed to have placed his own bodily fluids into drinks being consumed by Asian women at various locations on the Princeton University campus, police said. Most of the incidents occurred in the Graduate College dining hall.He also may have squirted body fluids on Asian women riding the university shuttle on many occasions, police said.Mr. Lohman also stole clothing from Asian women on campus, according to police. Women's underwear and numerous mittens were recovered during a search of his apartment, police said.Police said he was transported to the Capital Health Systems at Fuld for evaluation, and he still is in police custody.The borough police department is requesting that individuals who suspect they might have been a victim contact Detective Sgt. Nicholas Sutter at (609) 921-8108.<a href="http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...id=425695&rfi=6%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D">http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...id=425695&rfi=6
[/quote]
</a></p>
<p>I am not trying to cause alarm, because I have yet to see how Princeton deals with this situation. They may just give him a fine. </p>
<p>Also, one thing that bothered me about some ivies was that lately, the President of Harvard said some very offensive remarks about women engineers, and no other ivies objected. This kind of remark just doesn't go very well with Berkeley's philosophy and higher ranked faculty. (#1 ranked faculty in the world according to London Times). Also Berkeley engineering has the highest amount of women out of any engineering department in the US. For that to be able to happen is a result of university faculty philosophy and direction. I used to teach SAT Math, and girl students always had a jump in their math scores once I explained to them what I had learned in my viewpoints at Berkeley. There are no secret behind the scenes restrictions on your mental potential at Berkeley, I can guarantee that. </p>
<p>I chose Berkeley over UPenn and Cornell. I am originally from Los Angeles. Hopefully your daughter will be happy where ever she decides to attend.</p>
<p>I would choose pton</p>