Fretting over decision

Parents Forum
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<p>Just a thought about finances. Most students -- even really well prepared ones -- seem to take 5 years to get through Berkeley. I attribute it to the weaker advising and difficulty getting into classes. Princeton, like most of the high end privates, makes a major effort towards having their students graduate in 4 years. This could be a signficant cost savings, plus it allows your D to move onto her next stage in life (earning money, going to grad school). You might want to check out the statistics on graduation within 4 years. (Yes, I know that we all think our kids will be different -- with AP credit and the rest -- but somehow many, many incredibly well prepared kids seem to take more than 4 years to graduate from the UC system.) </p>

<p>Another californian</p>

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<p>That's a good point, momofgrowing, but it has to be looked at carefully. If I remember correctly (and I may not -- it's been a year since I looked), the difference in four-year graduation rates is only about 20%, not all or nothing. And someone not graduating in four years doesn't mean that he has paid more than four years' worth of tuition. People take time off, travel, etc., and may still graduate in eight semesters over more than four years. Or they may, like my sister at Stanford, have to complete one required course at fairly reduced rates while already employed post-college. My anecdotal sense agrees with you that extra tuition is more likely to be paid at Berkeley than at Princeton, but I'm not certain how much.</p>

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<p>One more consideration that may weigh in favor of a more equal choice financially for you is the cost of music lessons -- which may be as high as $5,000 + a year, since Cal has a very small subsidy, and I think, even then, only for music majors. If lessons are free at Princeton, and you like the teachers there, then that would somewhat equalize the costs.<br>
As to graduating in 4 years, Cal does give credits for AP's though not to fulfill breadth requirements (except freshman English); a focused student should have no problem finishing in 4 years, even taking a junior year abroad -- and UC has a wide range of options for study abroad, and I think the tuition is the same.<br>
There is no doubt that the cultures at the two schools are different, but that is something that your daughter will best be able to evaluate for fit.</p>

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<p>einstein did his 'post doctoral work' at Princeton, trying to find GUT. He could have gone to a lot of other places.</p>

<p>Historical</a> Society of Princeton</p>

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<p>What part of the cost do they subsidize at Cal? In Princeton, they told her that lessons are half-subsidized for those who play or sing in university ensembles and fully subsidized for majors and performance certificates (which both start the junior year.) </p>

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<p>I know many who graduated in 3 or 3.5 (even including Study Abroad).</p>

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<p>As to the music lesson subsidy at Cal, you'd have to check; when my kid was there, it was a meagre $15/lesson!</p>

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<p>regarding on campus jobs at princeton- it's really easy to get one, even without work study. They tend to pay relatively well, >$10 an hour. Also, if you want to do something volunteerish for the summer they will waive your summer contribution.</p>

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<p>Wow, that's an interesting piece of information. What kind of volounteering should it be? On campus or anyplace? For how long - all the summer or part of it?</p>

<p>Regarding the campus job without work-study - will they cut your grant for that?</p>

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<p>I'd be very surprised if they'd cut your grant. Have you thought about calling the financial aid people one more time? It is getting very close to the deadline and they do want the students they've admitted to attend. Perhaps you can honestly tell them the difference in dollars that is strapping you. You have nothing to lose by doing this. Keep in mind that the financial aid office is not going to rescind her decision because you called. Do be polite and truthful if and when you call.</p>

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<p>If money is the issue-to the point where the younger sibling will be making sacrifices, or to the point where it might impact the sibling's choices down the line, or to the point where you had to work longer hours or another job, I might worry a bit about the pressure, and possible guilt, your daughter might feel by choosing Princeton when she had another great opportunity that would not impact the family so much. Maybe I'm just projecting my own kids' feelings onto yours, I don't know. It's worth thinking about.</p>

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<p>According to the Ed Trust, the 4 year grad rate for princeton is 89.7 percent. The 4 year grad rate for Berkeley is 58.3 percent. The 6 year grad rate is much closer, only a ten percentage point spread. See below The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap</p>

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<p>A.S.A.P.,</p>

<p>she does feel somewhat guilty already for wanting to Princeton irrationally, "without a good, practical reason" (her words ... in translation ;)). So, she honestly tries to explore and weigh both options equally.</p>

<p>We hadn't figure out yet what exactly sacrifizes will be made (it's clear I'll need to look for a job, I have no idea how succesfull I will be in that - after so many years of staying at home with kids and no experience of working in this country :(); it's clear that in upcomming 2-4 of years the sibling will not be go to any kind of summer camps or educational programs her big sister had opportunities to go, we will not travel anywhere close the way we did previous few years (on a tight budget, but to exciting places ;) ... I think, D's refferals to those experiences in her apps essays somewhat contributed to her great personal acceptance rate to the range of amazing schools ;)). I do feel a little bit guilty for the little one about that.</p>

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<p>"...it's clear that in upcomming 2-4 of years the sibling will not be go to any kind of summer camps or educational programs her big sister had opportunities to go..."</p>

<p>I don't think any school is worth short changing siblings. When siblings have unequal opportunities as children, it can have a negative effect on their adult relationship. </p>

<p>If money is a concern I would offer to pay the equivalent of Berkeley for each child and if they wanted to attend a more expensive school they would have to earn and borrow the rest.</p>

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<p>Also, their relationship might be stronger if they have a chance to see each other more often ... if the big sister can visit any weekend she can/wants to. ;) That has been my major concern from the very beginning.</p>

<p>On the other hand, when the little one graduates from h/s, most probably, we'll sell our house in the prestigious -> expensive school district (unless some major economic disaster happens). That might help not to shortchange her with the choice of college.</p>

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<p>Does your daughter talk about coming home often - or do you? Most college students get quite engrossed in their lives (which is generally what we'd hope for) and don't get home all that often.</p>

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<p>I would think long and hard before short-changing the next in line sibling on educational opportunities for anything short of a medical crises ( of course the liver transplant comes before summer camp!) or other life-altering experience. Personally I would pick Prinecton over Cal but not if it meant cutting off the experiences that the sibs wouldn't have that number 1 already got. Sets up a very bad dynamic for adulthood- and it's not like you're choosing the College of New Rochelle over Princeton- it's for a top tier world class institution.</p>

<p>OTOH- if you can take a look at the finances and make it work without having the younger sibs carry the burden- it would be worth another go-round.</p>

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<p>I sent my daughter to college in Europe her freshman year. Believe me, sending them away from home is the best thing we can do for (most of) them. It's hard on the parents emotionally, but an incredibly growing experience for them to be away from all that is "safe". She feels so much more worldy now when she is around her high school friends who all went to school locally. It just broadens their horizons in ways you cannot even imagine. I say get her out of CA!</p>

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<p>I wouldn't short-change the younger sibling either. Not a good idea.</p>

<p>However, coming home from college IMO is highly over-rated. For girls especially, who seem quite apt to IM and call on the cellphones as they walk to class, and who don't want to leave their cohort at school any more often than necessary.</p>

<p>I talk to my daughter more now than I did when she was home. And while her younger brother has missed her, in some ways they are closer when they see eachother.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Most students -- even really well prepared ones -- seem to take 5 years to get through Berkeley.

[/quote]
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<p>Any "really well prepared" student will have no problem graduating from Berkeley in 4 years. There is not a problem getting classes for your major at Berkeley. You might have to compromise on when your discussion section is, but you won't have a problem getting into classes. </p>

<p>The only potential problem might be in getting into extremely sought-after classes out of your major; if you want to take Econ with Brad Delong you probably can't if you aren't an economics major, that kind of thing. Economics is particularly impacted. Computer Science is no longer impacted, however.</p>

<p>Certainly, a linguistics major at Berkeley is not going to have trouble getting into classes. </p>

<p>All that said, the main advantage to Princeton is that the average student at Princeton is a lot smarter than the average student at Berkeley. Princeton is much more selective, and selects students from across the country, while Berkeley takes the top students from mainly public high schools in California. So there is a much greater variability in the type of student at Berkeley, as opposed to the type of student at Princeton.</p>

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<p>You might also consider the pleasure that you and your family would get from being able to attend music performances by your daughter -- that's something I really loved about Cal and miss with my younger kid.<br>
There are plenty of very smart students at Cal -- and no dim bulbs will be majoring in linguistics!
On the other hand, don't chose Cal (if you can afford Princeton) if you think your daughter would always regret giving up Princeton -- and outside California, Europe, and Asia, Princeton does have more cache on the street (and on the Street).</p>