frustrated over what my counselor told me...please help

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm a senior in high school and I will be applying for colleges this fall. I have the grades and character and records to go to a big named school. However, I prefer a smaller liberal arts college with engineering program so I could have a closer relationship with my professors and friends. And also scholarship is more abundant at liberal arts colleges than big named research universities. </p>

<p>My counselor told me that I need to go to a school with names and reputation so that it will be easier for me to get into a graduate school and get a job in the future. Is that necessarily true? Say if I want to eventually go to Stanford for masters in engineering, is it better for me to go to a school like Texas Austin? If I go to a school like Bucknell University or Lafayette College, both liberal arts colleges with a fairly decent engineering program, and both are pretty well unknown to most people, would you say that students from these schools have lesser chance getting into a big name university's engineering program than students from University of Michigan or Carnegie Mellon University?</p>

<p>Thank you very much for your time!</p>

2

<p>Grad schools will definitely know both of those schools. Bucknell is pretty well-known on the East Coast, at least for a small school. It’s important for you to go where you’ll do best. Also check out Union College in Schenectady, NY.</p>

<p>Oh, and you can also check out some 3-2 Engineering programs at a bunch of liberal arts colleges, where you spend three years at the small college getting your bachelor’s and then two years at a university getting a master’s of engineering.</p>

<p>Gettysburg College, which is similar to Bucknell and Lafayette, offers this, but so do tons of other schools.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.gettysburg.edu/academics/majors_minors/degree_detail_new.dot?inode=2945780&crumbTitle=Engineering+-+Dual+Degree[/url]”>http://www.gettysburg.edu/academics/majors_minors/degree_detail_new.dot?inode=2945780&crumbTitle=Engineering+-+Dual+Degree&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>While I don’t know a whole lot about any of those schools, I think that I would take any advice from a guidance counselor with a grain of salt. My guidance counselors suck. One even advised me to attend a community college for two years, and then transfer, despite the fact I want to go out of state and am within the top 10% of my class. Moral of the story: ask elsewhere.</p>

4

<p>Don’t worry about where you go for undergraduate so much as long as it’s engineering program is accredited by ABET, you will have a fine education and have excellent chances to enter a graduate program. If you go to a school where you are more comfortable, you will probably do better in your courses and that will certainly improve your chances.</p>

<p>That being said, entering a Masters program is usually easier than a Ph.D. program since most universities such as the ones you are targeting won’t provide assistantships for Masters students. In general, for the field of engineering, it is better to get a few years of work experience and then decide what kind of Masters degree you should pursue. It might be an MBA instead of a Masters in engineering. Plus, your employers might even pay part or all of your tuition!</p>

<p>If you are interested in a research degree, things are quite different. It might be more advantageous to go to one of the <a href=“http://www.theaitu.org%5B/url%5D”>http://www.theaitu.org</a> schools which has Ph.D. programs since you have more of an opportunity to get involved in on-campus research. There are plenty of good smaller schools in this category, no need to go to a big program if it does not fit you. The 2+3 programs suggested above are also a good option for a Liberal Arts College but might give you a bit less opportunity to become involved in engineering research early on.</p>

5

<p>Thank you all for your very helpful answers! Now if I’m picking between bucknell and Lafayette, which engineering program is stronger (more research opportunities, grad and job placement, eyc.)?</p>

6

<p>I would not advise you on doing 3-2 program because very few want to leave after 3 years. If you need FA, you should also find out if you could get FA at the other school. </p>

<p>A good way of finding out if a school could help you with life after is to go to their career center website (or call them directly) to see if they have a report on what kids do after graduation, may it be graduate school or job.</p>

7

<p>Bucknell has way more name recognition, but my son visited both and applied to both. We were very impressed with both schools including their Career Services, internship connections, alumni support etc.
Bucknell is a little bigger, but the location was too remote for my son. He liked Lafayette better but in the end he decided he wanted CS rather than MechE, and he thought the CS department was too small at Lafayette to suit his tastes. In the end he decided on a small engineering school rather than a combo liberal arts/engineering school.
As a middle ground between the two consider U. Rochester or Tufts.</p>

<p>All of the schools discussed have highly regarded programs and applying to grad schools depends mostly on your hardwork and initiative more than the name of your undergrad school.</p>

8

<p>Don’t rule out Michigan - it’s one of the top engineering schools in the country. For engineering, it would seem to me you’d want national name recognition and the most opportunities, which you will get at a school like Michigan and not a small liberal arts school. Sorry to play devils advocate here, but the large public institutions like Michigan afford far more opportunities than a small liberal arts school, unless you plan to stay on the east coast perhaps. You should visit/check out both and see where you might be a better fit.</p>

9

<p>Great advice for all! But what about scholarship? I’m sort of depending on scholarship because my parents can’t afford college for four years and I’m not planning on having debt after college. Therefore I’m targeting liberal arts engineering colleges. I’m from Michigan so I know how great the school is (go blue!), but it is just too big for me. I learn the best with smaller class size.</p>

10

<p>Bucknell is a very good, recognized, high ranking LAC with a great, higly ranked engineering school. It can be very generous with aid or scholarships, depending on your stats. I’ve also heard some folks on here complain about their aid offer. So I would apply and see what happens.</p>

11

<p>You can also research each school’s record to see how they compare. Use this list:
[Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/privatecolleges/]Best”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts)</p>

<p>Or check the school’s Common Data Set. I seem to recall that Bucknell is good with financial aid but not so much for merit aid (only 8% get it with an average award of less than 12K) My son got $0 from them yet got $12K- $20K at a several other schools.</p>

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<p>Generally, you want national recognition and a prestigious name for an engineering program. Small liberal arts colleges won’t attract the same attention from major companies looking to recruit. Also, it’s easier to form close connections at small schools, but there are more people to connect with at larger ones.</p>

<p>I think you should go to a liberal arts school if you want a liberal arts degree. But that doesn’t seem to be the case</p>

<p>Edit: Reading further, I saw you say that you learn better in small class sizes, and that you really don’t have much financial backing for college. Could I suggest you take two years at a community college then? Extremely inexpensive, and the smallest class sizes there are. There would be plenty of time to get acclimated to the college life if that’s what’s bothering you.</p>

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<p>As an employee for a major company, I can tell you that AeroMike couldn’t be more wrong. Bucknell and, to a lesser extent, Lafayette carry great weight with company recruiters and with grad schools. The professors at those smaller schools, btw, spend a lot more time with their students than do the professors at many large schools.</p>

14

<p>Run the Net Price Calculator on each school’s web site, or through College Board. That should give you a sense of how much each will end up costing. That will at least give you a start in figuring out how much other aid you might need. </p>

<p>You might also look at Clark University - they offer excellent merit aid, and have a 3/2 engineering program with Columbia University. You would need to indicate your interest in the program before you start, but you are not committed from day 1 - it’s open to all admitted students, but you need to follow the curriculum to ensure you’re qualified to transfer at the end of 3 years. If you decide not to transfer, you can stay at Clark to complete your degree, and if your GPA is high enough, stay an extra year to complete a Master’s with no tuition, as part of their accelerated BA/Master’s program. [Accelerated</a> B.A./Master’s Degree - Majors and Academics - Undergraduate Admissions - Clark University](<a href=“http://www.clarku.edu/undergraduate-admissions/majors-academics/tuition-free-masters.cfm]Accelerated”>http://www.clarku.edu/undergraduate-admissions/majors-academics/tuition-free-masters.cfm)</p>

15

<p>They have good undergraduate degrees. But I really never see anything in the news reading “Bucknell researchers develop robots to repair clogged arteries,” but I’d expect to see something like that from MIT and similar schools. I simply don’t understand why someone would pay private tuition and not go for the very best. And when you have colleges like Georgia Tech or Berkeley that are not only public (cheaper), but ranked higher than these private colleges, and offer quite a bit in research and internship opportunities, I don’t understand why you’d go to the small liberal arts college.</p>

<p>Note please, I am not trying to say you’d be wasting your time or that Bucknell is a bad school. That is surely not the case. I’m simply saying there might be a better and more sensible option.</p>

16

<p>Look at the 3-2 programs at Austin college and Hendrix. sounds perfect for you. You study at a small liberal arts school but spend your last two years at a prestigious research institution and end up with 2 degrees in 5 years</p>

17

<p>Consider Clarkson in NY as another option I haven’t seen listed yet.</p>

<p>It also depends upon which type of engineering you think you want. Around here, Civil Engineers all come from Penn St or Virginia Tech. Both Bucknell and Lafayette are in state, but I don’t know of a single Civil Engineer working around here who graduated from either. Perhaps they are more well-known for other disciplines? Of course, my IRL info is limited to a couple of counties. Civil Engineering is mostly local (although courtesy of the internet, my other half’s company has done projects worldwide).</p>

<p>If you know a particular area you want to live in or company you where you want to work, see where they hire from - then apply accordingly. Engineering is getting tougher when it comes to finding a job. I’d want every positive aspect on my resume I could get and local name recognition is a biggie here.</p>

18

<p>* However, I prefer a smaller liberal arts college with engineering program so I could have a closer relationship with my professors and friends. And also scholarship is more abundant at liberal arts colleges than big named research universities. *</p>

<p>I think your premises are wrong.</p>

<p>At many universities, students (especially eng’g students) have close relationships with their profs because of research, hands-on activities, etc</p>

<p>And, why do you think that students at univs don’t have close relationships with friends???</p>

<p>and, a number of universities have very good scholarships for strong students.</p>

<p>LACs can be very pricey and not all give good merit scholarships, so it’s a crapshoot as to whether you’d get enough to bring the cost to equal or below what a univ would cost…especially if the univ gave you merit. </p>

<p>Also, any 3-2 programs can end up being very expensive since your aid will be based on the first 3 years. Who knows what you’d get for the last 2 years…maybe nothing.</p>

<p>We need to deal with concrete issues…</p>

<p>What are your test scores and GPA?</p>

<p>How much will your parents pay?</p>

<p>What is your home state?</p>

<p>We need to know how much your parents will pay so that we can determine how much merit money you need. for instance, if your parents will only pay up to $15k per year, then you probably need a full tuition scholarship so that your parents’ money will pay for room, board, books, travel, and misc expenses.</p>

19

<p>*Indeed my ACT is a 25, but in all honesty I was feeling sick that day and did not perform well. I’m retaking it again and I’m sure I’ll get a 30+.</p>

<p>GPA 4.1 unweighted
Junior 4APs (Chem, physics b, calc ab, us history), predicting 4+.
Senior 4APs(Eng Lit, Physics C, Calc BC, US gov)
*</p>

<p>I realize that you weren’t feeling well when you took your ACT, and hopefully you can raise it to a 30+, but even if you did, you’re not going to get much or ANY merit from your list of schools with an ACT 30/31 and maybe not even with a 32 or 33.</p>

<p>You’re in danger of not having any affordable schools. </p>

<p>Once you have your next scores, we can help you with a better list…or we can come up with alternate lists based on possible ACT scores…such as a list if you get an ACT 28/29, a list if you get a 30-31, etc.</p>

<p>Right now, with your ACT 25 and wanting scholarships, none of your schools are likely.
And, none would give you a preferential aid pkg.</p>

<p>When will you be testing?</p>

<p>and how much will your parents pay each year?</p>

20

<p>Well, thanks much for goin way back and bring up my history… I have a 28 on ACT now, and I’m testing again this Saturday.</p>