<p>OP, homeschooling seems like an extreme reaction to your D’s dislike of the IB program. Homeschooling at the high-school level is very hard to pull off successfully. Think carefully how you can arrange advanced-level instruction in all the necessary subjects, especially if your D wants admission to a selective school. Every so often, we hear stories of homeschooled kids getting into Ivy-caliber schools, but when you scratch the surface, you see that these students are exceptionally bright and self-motivated, with parents who themselves often have a lot of formal education (i.e. PhD parent who doesn’t work outside the home). </p>
<p>Most kids “like to learn” on some general level until the material gets hard and they have to study. Very few kids have such great natural aptitude or obsession with a subject that it comes without struggle. Are you sure that homeschooling would solve this problem, or delay it? College should not be the first time a student is thrown into the “firehose” learning environment. Also, sophomore year in high school can be difficult. Many kids go through a sophomore slump, but they come out of it as they come to terms with how to manage their time.</p>
<p>Or the kid goes to community college for courses that are too advanced for the parents to teach. Here is an example, although he eventually transferred to a Pac-10 school instead of an Ivy League school:</p>
<p>I have seen a lot of situations where parents, frustrated by the school’s academics, pull their kids out and homeschool or put them in cyberschool. Often, the kids experience social isolation, and end up with an imbalance in their studies. </p>
<p>Some kids can handle the pressures of IB, AP, dual enrollment, etc. Others need a kinder, gentler schedule. Regardless of a less demanding schedule, there’s a college out there for everyone.</p>
<p>It just seems that homeschooling works best when it’s a carefully considered long-term family decision rather than a reaction to a crisis or a setback.</p>
<p>Amazing how a program that has found a lot more commercial success in the below average schools than among the best schools is purported to be so challenging! </p>
<p>The (few in the US) high schools that already have something equal or better won’t bother with something like IB. The many others who start out worse probably find it convenient for them to use a pre-made “upgrade” curriculum to offer instead of going through the work to design their own “upgrade” (which, in the case of initially poor high schools, may or may not be better than the pre-made IB one). You might not like the way it happens (and there are likely many others who find many aspects of the IB program suboptimal), but it is not surprising that it happens this way.</p>
<p>OP: Seems like your daughter is doing well if she has earned all “As” so far in the program. Maybe she’s maturing academically (academic growing pains ?). Hard to make recommendations without knowing of her other options. Since she’s making all “As”, maybe she’s putting too much pressure on herself. Grad students typically don’t like the first year of law school or the grind of medical school, but they endure it & grow because they have a goal in mind.</p>
<p>I am not a believer in the IB program. More pressure on already high achieving kids. Why cant the schools just go the AP route. 30 Years ago only the a few brainiac kids took AP classes. Now that’s not enough? </p>
<p>Just like club sports - its about money under the guise of showcasing incredibly, stupendously, talented beyond previous generations. The IB program costs the school district $, teachers are paid more for teaching those classes and AP classes fall to the wayside. To whose benefit? </p>
<p>Does it really behoove 20% of the school district (that was our required student participation to make it’s budget) to be that much “more brilliant IBers” at taxpayer expense. Meanwhile our school district many of the kids do not perform all that well and end up going to B+ tier schools anyway. And kids lose out on AP credits b/c they are not taught to the AP exam. The potential loss of AP credit = $4K (a college class) - it’s a big loss to the student .</p>
<p>based on what I saw, the AP students are less prepared in college, at least for the writing and exam stress (though they catch up quickly, as obviously kids that loaded up on 8-12 AP classes are very smart as well).</p>
<p>Retrospectively, there are almost no benefits to the IB program. First off, less work load in the AP program. Easier classes, easier tests. </p>
<p>Which brings about another point. My GPA in IB is 3.55. If I did AP instead of IB since freshman year, I would have a 4.0. Not just saying this. Case in point, my brother was in IB program till sophomore year and had a 2.5. First semester he switched to AP, immediately got a 4.0. Continued this 4.0 till end of high school. Another example, I was in two AP classes last year and I went to class once per week. Got a 97%+ in both classes. So, if you’re looking at college, AP is definitely the way to go concerning GPA.</p>
<p>I would understand this GPA disparity if IB was significantly more favorable than AP concerning college admissions, but as everyone says, AP=IB (supposedly) </p>
<p>Finally, all of the other junk that IB requires. CAS, extended essay, Internal Assessments. Why do these matter? Do they give us more learning? Will it help in college admissions? Bottom line: More work, less reward. </p>
<p>I guess the ONLY advantage to IB is if you’re trying to go out of the country for college. Only possible benefit I can see. </p>
<p>If anyone here sees why IB is better than AP, please tell me. I am legitimately curious as to why anyone would choose IB over AP. Especially concerning college admissions (higher GPA in AP with less workload=best of both worlds)</p>
<p>My DD is an IB senior. DD says Senior year is the toughest- with all the assessments and EE. At DD’s school they start out each year with about 70 kids in the program. The 2013 IB class is down to about 50, of those about 20 kids are doing really well and are at the top of the class ranks. The other 30 are doing B/C work. HS Class of 2013 is over 400 kids. Last year top 10 were all IB and so far this year is the same. AP and IB are weighted equally. </p>
<p>DD really likes her classes and finds the extra work challenging (sometimes frustrating). At her school the IB teachers are often the AP teachers also. My freshman son is not IB. His AP gov class is a Pre IB/ AP gov class.</p>
<p>UCBA, my post was 100 percent sarcastic. I should have looked the smiley to avoid the ambiguity. </p>
<p>I thought that my multiple negative comments about the IB were well-known. The program has few tangible benefits and a slew of very real problems. One of the worst imports from Europe ever. An educational Yugo.</p>
<p>We were sold on the IB based on small class size (15 vs 30+), more focus on essays and think work or projects, and better teachers. And that’s Pre-IB 9th grade.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s the way our IB works but so far they’re batting .333 only for class size. Pre-IB Biology has been a disaster as I mentioned, the teacher likely has a Scantron multiple choice grading machine named after her. Pre-IB English has lots of essays but very arbitrary grading and little feedback as to what is going on, just truly magnificently severe grading and little teaching; Pre-IB/AP World History is taught by another Scantron Queen. </p>
<p>In retrospect, tho, I don’t care much about the credit part, and it’s not like AP is taught any better. I cringe to think that all this while we’re in our states top high school and one of the best 500 or so in the US. Sort of proves my point that it’s easier to get to a small town or near rural HS with a handful of AP’s, no competition, plenty of time to 800 your SAT’s and do your EC’s, and off to the Ivies. A few nearby HS’s in rust belt cities seem to be sending a LOT more kids to the Ivies than we do :)</p>
<p>The IB program is only worth it if you really like a vast variety of subjects and personally believe in the philosophy of the program, and also have great teachers. IB1-1st semester IB2 was very difficult for me, particularly with Math HL, but I don’t regret doing the diploma program because it truly taught me so much and because I enjoyed the camaraderie with my fellow students and teachers. You can’t do it for the external rewards (I went into taking 6 exams in May knowing I was getting 0 credits), although it’s honestly ridiculous how few credits are given for the IB, as well as that colleges think a 7 = an AP 5. However, I can say that adjusting to college was much easier for me than it seemed to be for many other AP students. </p>
<p>In terms of the IB’s other requirements: Internal Assessments + Oral Exams - the more writing/articulating, the better for college. CAS: Almost everyone I knew had 150 hours of this completed by IB1 - it was logging it that was annoying. EE: It’s what you make of it - I wrote mine in a second language, which felt great when I was done.</p>
<p>Bottom line, the IB program works well for students who are interested in a very particular kind of a learning environment!</p>
<p>Still, what benefits does IB have over AP? Concerning college admissions that is. People say that IB better prepares you, but people who say that are mostly in the IB program, so they dont have the AP perspective. This works the other way too of course, which is why I’m curious to hear an AP student’s opinion</p>
<p>Quote from my daughter, during her first month of pre-IB: “Mom, they’re all like me!” </p>
<p>She had come from a middle school where there were about a dozen seriously academic students in a class of 400. In the IB class of 100, there were 100 seriously academic students. She was in an environment unlike anything she had ever experienced before. There were aspects of IB that she didn’t like, but being in this environment was more important. </p>
<p>The main benefit of IB, as I see it, is that it gets academically oriented kids out of the regular high school program and into a smaller group where it’s socially acceptable to take school seriously. IB students get to spend most of their time with their peers, possibly for the first time in their lives. In our school system (as in the one the OP’s daughter attends), there is pre-IB in 9th and 10th grades, so students get this benefit for four years, not just two.</p>
<p>This is pretty much the same reason why math-science magnet programs have plenty of kids in them who aren’t particularly enthused about math and science (and who will major in something else in college). Like IB, these magnets are a way out of the zoo. And some students will put up with a curriculum they don’t especially like – and a GPA that’s lower than it could have been – to get that.</p>
<p>AP doesn’t offer this benefit because it’s not a self-contained program. And often, except in one or two subjects, you can’t seriously dive into APs until junior year.</p>
<p>Also, IB does prepare you better for college. I say this as the parent of one IB graduate and one non-IB graduate, both of whom have now finished college. However, as Happy2012 points out, in many schools, IB can hurt your GPA and therefore may actually harm your college admissions prospects. So there’s definitely a tradeoff.</p>
<p>@shoeboemom - if you decide to consider other options I would suggest looking at Stanford University’s Online High School. My impression is that it is one of the best programs out there.</p>
<p>OP–technically your DD isn’t “in” IB yet. Wait until next year to see what the real program is like and then decide. Honestly though, IB isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. For some it’s a great fit but for most kids it just causes undo stress. It’s laughable that the AP classes are easier but given our experience with both I can see why people think that. IB piles on the homework and for some people they think there is a direct relationship between the amount of homework and the difficulty of the course, not true but no one is going to change their mind—kind of like a new school building means a better education :D.</p>
<p>Around here the schools with IB programs are seriously underperforming schools and the IB programs were put into place to boost numbers at the schools. The schools have about a 40% graduation rate outside of the IB program. Only about 20 kids or so at those schools are in the IB program though. As a result, it looks like the IB program is “harder” but the reality is the kids taking the AP classes are not ready for AP and do not do well on the exams. I think the average score on the exams is 2 at most of these schools. The schools that the IB kids get into are no different then the AP kids at the suburban schools, who, have higher test score averages then the IB kids from the urban schools…</p>
<p>I don’t think AP is a magic bullet nor to I think IB is a magic bullet. If the school district can afford to offer these programs and still maintain good to excellent traditional programming then it ‘hurts’ no one and can benefit the cohort of kids that fit the particular programming. In my opinion what works for most kids is a mash-up of the best the school has to offer in traditional programming plus some extras for kids that will exhaust the curriculum. This can be accomplished with very good existing teachers or with a combination of branded programming and traditional programming or dual credit if there is a nearby college. Like anything, the marketing rhetoric has to be parsed. The best choice is going to depend on the individual kid. The ‘best’ class all my kids took was a contemporary history lecture taught by a really right wing guy. The kids like that class because there was so much discussion and argument and need to support the individual beliefs verbally and in written form. It was a regular class but probably did more to prepare my kids for college than any AP class they took. And they really learned contemporary history which was the only point of the class. You have to look at YOUR school and what your school has to offer and make choices…but again, I don’t think there is any one “national” choice that outdoes all others.</p>