<p>I think it really depends on who you are. In my school, IB kids are definately the nerds of the school. In IB, you can be as hard working as you want, and no one will make fun of you.
Side note here, I dont think that you necessarily learn more in IB than AP. Personal experience. What IB will do for you is to create an extremely competitive environment. Extremely.
As for AP, if you want to have fun, do AP. Thing is, if you want to have fun AND high grades (counter-intuitive i know) AP is the way to go. Persoanlly, I’m more of an AP person. Goal of high school for me was to get into a good college, not necessarily to be intellectually stimulated.</p>
<p>My D did both AP and IB. She was the only AP scholar with distinction in her graduating year and she earned the IB diploma, so I think we can speak to both. IB is not a magic bullet, however, when it is implemented well with motivated teachers it can be a very good thing for some kids. My D was one of those kids. She is and always has been passionate about research and writing. The extended essay was a thing of pure, absolute joy for her. There is nothing comparable with AP. Her school is a poor, underperforming inner-city school which was able to bring in the IB because of grants. The IB kids get perks up the wazoo, which is either a good or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. If you are interested in diversity, that IB program brings in a demographic that was never previously present in that school. When she earned her IB diploma, she learned that some schools (Bryn Mawr, Binghamton, and a bunch more) grant automatic sophomore status. Again, either a good or a bad thing, depending. D ended up coming in as a sophomore which allowed her to double major and double minor, which was perfect since her aspirations are so unique and specific.</p>
<p>As far as AP goes, in a good school, it’s a great thing. However, some of you seem to be forgetting that there are many, many, MANY schools where AP is just a name on the course catalog, it isn’t taken seriously, no one is expected to actually pass the tests, and no one does. My D1 went to a school like that.</p>
<p>As xiggi says, IB can be a great thing for schools with no history of excellence and maybe some folks aren’t familiar with such schools/communities. For my D, being the child of uneducated, white trash parents, it was a wonderful thing and she will tell you that every time.</p>
<p>My son is much less driven and has different aspirations, so IB wouldn’t work for him and we didn’t even consider it.</p>
<p>I guess we are lucky and the smart kids in the school are the “popular” kids. Many of them are pretty nerdy but in a school where the emphasis is on getting a good education the bubblehead party animals are looked down upon and the good students are to be emulated :D. Most popular program at our school…marching band BY FAR.</p>
<p>SteveMA, it is a great thing that the popular kids are the smart kids. Not the case everywhere. As Marian said, the great benefit for kids in some schools is that IB is self contained. My D’s school had all the gang and crime problems as any other NYC public high school, but she never had to deal with them. A wonderful, wonderful thing. Since it was a public school in NYC with a poor, black demographic, all sorts of wonderful grants and partnerships were available for the IB kids, offering them opportunities that would never have been possible. The val was a girl who immigrated in middle school from a Latin American country, the core of teachers in the IB program did so right by her that she ended up in an Ivy League school and had every support given to her, as did the other kids. It may be unique in that this particular IB program was populated by teachers who were all professionals (research scientists, investment bankers, federal agents) in other fields before coming to teaching later in life, so they brought something special with them and made the program so.</p>
<p>My kids did IB (in the same magnet school Marian is describing), and it was a good experience. I think it is a program that can be delivered very well, but I’m sure it can be delivered poorly. It has the benefit of being a (somewhat) coherent program that includes some useful elements, such as a lot of writing. It’s hard to advise the OP without knowing what kind of commitment the school has made to IB (for example, does it have the best teachers).</p>
<p>Wow, on the IB/AP issue – depends so much on the school and the teachers. In our magnet IB program in diverse, urban school – IB is the home for the quirky, creative, academically curious kids. It was a phenomenal peer group for our older son and now our high school freshman. The best teachers in the building tend to want to teach in IB because of the kids, though there are certainly some less than stellar teachers in the IB program at that school. They often are the same teachers teaching the AP level subject matter in their area as well. </p>
<p>So what is the difference? My son took AP classes when IB didn’t fit parameters of his schedule. He said the difference came down to AP= rush to cover and memorize what was on the exam whereas IB was more reflective, critical thinking and writing, seeing connections across disciplines etc. As he is interested in humanities, IB courses were his choice over AP – thinking and writing mattered more than whether he could test out of entry level sciences on his way to pre-med, as it could be for some other students. </p>
<p>Both programs have strengths and weaknesses, which can be exacerbated within a particular school setting. Informed parents who can ask questions and hopefully who have some options for their students, depending on their strengths and priorities, can make the individual decision as to what works best for them. </p>
<p>As to the impact on gpa, again, depends on the school. All the Vals at our high school (where about 1/4-1/5 of the students are in IB), have been IB students over the last 5 years, except for one student one year (and there are generally around 5-7 students per year with perfect gpas, the school does not use weighted, so anyone with 4 years of straight As is a Val).</p>
<p>DD went to one of those poorer performing suburban high schools(thanks to the implosion of public housing of the city next door) and a very diverse high school. They put IB in all of the bad performing schools about 9 years ago. They have since launch several other types of magnet programs because this county is being run over with expanding inner city problems. IB is still the only program that can insulate the good performing students from the other students and it is still one that many parents will tolerate to keep their kids safer. </p>
<p>Dd got both an IB diploma and AP scholar with Distiction award. She also played three varsity sports and of course did all those lovely CAS requirements. She was busy but she didn’t have the problems many IB students have with staying up late to do homework. I never understood that problem but maybe they didn’t manage their time well. Sure she had several hours of homework but rarely ever had to stay up later than her normal bedtime. </p>
<p>DD has said the HL IB is usually harder than AP but SL IB can be easier than AP. She liked IB better and she is a science/math major in college. She also had mention that she can tell when someone has taken theory of knowledge in college by the way they present their ideas. </p>
<p>IB does prepare students for college. Is IB the best we can do? no but it is pretty good. I like that is compares our US kids with kids around the world. </p>
<p>I know that most IB students get their diploma(80 percent pass rate). Our state ranked number one in education in the country for several years. Our county only had a IB diploma past rate of 33 percent. DD cohort started with 151 students. Several joined IB in 10th grade but I do not know the exact number. I think it was atleast 10 more. At the 12th grade pinning ceremony, there were only 96 kids left. I found out only 32 kids got the diploma. I am pretty sure those 32 will get through college just fine. In the end, less than 1 in 5 students that started the program got a diploma. This pragram is not for everyone. </p>
<p>In the end, dd got what she needed out of both IB and AP. She got merit aid, and college credit. She got into higher level courses and was able to satisfy some of her core requirements at college with those college credits. Honestly, I can not ask more from her high school experience.</p>
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<p>When I was in high school, they had honors sections of English, math, and foreign languages to keep the more motivated students interested. The top level in each sequence was the AP course, taken in senior year (or junior year for the most advanced students). It was not “necessary” to sprinkle the “AP lites” (which did not exist at the time) into the freshman and sophomore level course offerings for the more motivated students to find each other.</p>
<p>I homeschooled highschool and my d had her pick of top schools. She’s currently an Architecture student in a top rated program and has had no problems. . .on the contrary, she is seen as a leader and a resource to her fellow students who don’t know that she was homeschooled, only that she’s somehow “different”, unusual, cool as they tell her. Her biggest challenge was deciding between aerospace engineering and architecture. </p>
<p>Homeschooling highschool can be a challenge but it isn’t what most people think it is. It is highly individualized learning and can be the very thing for this student. Many highschool homeschoolers use online AP classes like pennsylvaniahomescooolers.com Others use umbrella organizations. I know highly successful homeschoolers whose parents work outside the home. Some homeschoolers start at community colleges or universities as “at large” students quite young as part of their homeschooling experience. Others apprentice for special skills. One of my friend’s d is interested in baking and enters baking/cooking competitions and recently won first place for a brownie recipe. The 16 year old beat out culinary students and accomplished professionals. Those kids who are interested in the sciences and engineering often get jobs in labs and museums. I knew a boy who at 14 was working with a physicist at a leading museum in the city. Homeschoolers are available at times the other kids are not so this gives them an edge. They have the ability to research and pursue their passions early. </p>
<p>There are MANY benefits to homeschooling highschool and universities CHASE homeschooled students. My d’s test scores were excellent and I was never once challenged in any way concerning her transcript. We followed a rigorous but enjoyable curriculum of 4 years of math, lab science, foreign language, english and social science. Her physical education included soccer, volleyball, fencing and downhill skiing. She studied the ancient world with archeologists and completed the first AP Studio Art class offered online by a Yalie husband and wife team. She won gold medals for the National Latin exam and the President’s Medal for volunteerism. She supplemented her yearly studies with taking summer classes/programs for highschool students in Architecture, Art, Design and Engineering. She had plenty of friends and still found time for her dog, her birds and her passion for ballet, which she still pursues at her school of choice. There is a h-u-g-e WORLD out there for those who choose to homeschool highschool. . .and there’s no “right” reason to do it. It a child is losing the love of learning, that reason is sufficient enough. The OP can message me privately if she wants more information.</p>
<p>I agree with bungalodweller; homeschooling high school can be rewarding and I know a number of homeschoolers (mine included) who have done fantastically in college admissions. (Oh, and not all homeschoolers have parents from educated backgrounds. My dh does not have a college degree and is a driver for a living and I an an ex-special education teacher, graduating from the local state uni) </p>
<p>The key for us was outsourcing-finding resources to keep the love of learning alive for my oldest son. Since I live in a large city and my son went through community college before the budget crisis hit hard (here in Ca), he and I were able to piece together a solid education and one that allowed him to continue his love of learning and pursue his myriad of non-academic interests. </p>
<p>Caveat: He was always homeschooled, following a path that I would label “self-directed learning”, and I had plenty of help from the math circle, online classes/math mentor, a kind local college professor, lots of community college, self-study APs, etc. I stopped teaching my son probably when he was 9 or 10. My job became facilitator and counselor.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think it is much harder for students to jump into homeschooling after having been in school their whole lives. High schoolers typically miss their friends, the daily contact, the “school” activities, etc.</p>
<p>I am watching a young lady in my middle son’s speech and debate club who seems to be making the adjustment well. Her parents pulled her from the GATE program here in Ca. because it was going nowhere fast. She’s actually doing a speech on just how bad the education was-teaching to the test and sucking all the joy out of learning. </p>
<p>I think she’s having success because she jumped right into co-op activities, her aunt is actually guiding her homeschooling, and she has a number of very invested adults helping her through the process. She definitely wanted to do this.</p>
<p>OP, if your daughter isn’t asking to homeschool, I would proceed with caution. I don’t know a thing about IB (I’d never heard of it until coming on CC). I don’t know what your other options are but if you seriously decide to look into homeschooling, I would join some local homeschool lists first so you can see what it looks like to successfully homeschool a high schooler.</p>
<p>I wish you well.</p>
<p>Great reply, sbjdorlo! I, too, homeschooled all the way through and your reply demonstrates the great variety in the homeschool experience. My d’s experience was that she loved me to teach her and I continued to teach even through highschool in addition to those important jobs you mentioned—faciitator and counselor.</p>
<p>The local homeschooling groups were a great source of friendship and support and your remark about the daughter’s attitude toward homeschooling is crucial. When it was time for highschool my daughter had a choice to go out or continue on at home. She chose home and I’m so glad she did. After the first month at university she called me to thank me for homeschooling her; I was honored.</p>
<p>The most important thing for any child anywhere is an involved, caring parent and with all of the informative posts here, I’m confident that the OP will do well.</p>
<p>“OP, homeschooling seems like an extreme reaction to your D’s dislike of the IB program.” - That’s my initial thought too. But the may be factors that the OP understand better than i do.</p>
<p>IB curriculum / projects is consistent due the standardized requirements. But still the implementation varies greatly from hsl to hs. From what I’ve read on CC, AP and Honors programs vary even more. So although this group can give collective thoughts, the best input will come from the local GC and parents. Good luck, to OP and her daughter.</p>
<p>Definitely agree with sbjdorlo, if you’re daughter isn’t asking to homeschool, it may not be a good alternative. Of course, she just may not realize what it means as an alternative and having information available about it would be a good thing. Just as an fyi, people homeschool and get into top schools without parents having advanced degrees or classes being taught by Ivy League grads. Most use pretty ordinary resources and spend a lot of time pursing their own interests and don’t have problems getting into college or scholarships. But it is a very different social experience.</p>
<p>Could you and your daughter handle homeschooling without undue conflict?</p>
<p>An awful lot of parents and kids have difficulty handling even the state-mandated hours of supervised practice driving when the kids have learner’s permits. The emotional business between parent and child gets in the way of having a straightforward teacher-learner relationship.</p>
<p>Homeschooling is practice driving times about 100.</p>
<p>Somehow I didn’t realize that all of these replies had appeared! Thank you and sorry for the delay in responding. </p>
<p>There were so many great replies…with many of the thoughts and issues we have been discussing. I really appreciate it. I know I can’t respond to each post, but I will try to hit what I can.</p>
<p>My D chose to go into the IB program (currently still in pre-IB, which at her school is a combo of AP classes and some specifically labeled Pre-IB). This is the only IB program in our school district and is considered by many to be the most challenging HS program our district offers. It is a program she and her self proclaimed nerd friends sought out. She very much wanted (and I suspect will continue to want) to be a part of it. As of yet, she hasn’t had to stay up all hours to get her work done, and has been able to keep up, even with marching band (which has just ended for the yr) taking up many hours per week. But the stress is taking its toll. She seemed to ‘melt down’ just before Thanksgiving break and now seems to be improving, but it’s still a work in progress.</p>
<p>Like someone else posted about their child, my D has frequently mentioned that she is very pleased to be in the program, saying that she has finally ‘found her people’. The IB program was, indeed, sold to us as a community within the school…something that is very appealing to us. D is introverted and definitely benefits from being with like-minded friends. She has come home often saying how she loves this group of people, although, even in this group she finds there are a few who aren’t so academically minded and that frustrates her. We suspect there will be fewer of those in the Junior yr…There are fewer this year than last.</p>
<p>We have also heard that the Junior year can be very challenging, but that is also when she would get the true IB teachers, and, according the schedule, will be in classes that she has more interest in than what is required this year. As others have also mentioned, We had read that AP tends to be more memorization, while IB is promised to be more big picture and that is something I think she has looked forward to(almost akin to the LAC experience vs the lecture hall). Right now we just don’t know if that will kick in more in the Junior year or not.<br>
While we know Junior yr will have it’s challenges in IB, 9th and especially 10th seem to be considered to be weed-out years. Teachers from the soph yr have to recommend kids for the continuing on to the IB courses in the junior yr.<br>
If the junior year is as was originally described, with intellectually stimulating discussion, great teachers (IB has been at this HS for several yrs, with many of the same instructors), etc…then I think she would get a lot out of it, but if that is not the reality and classes are just more memorization and lots of homework, that doesn’t seem like what she signed on for. She has commented that there are times she’d like to look into a topic more, but there is no time because of the homework load. But…
That is where her circle of friends is. She is also very hard on herself…wants to be at the top (I promise…not something we demand!)…with friendly, but still stressful, competition with her friends for grades, etc. We knew going in that she would not want to ‘quit’ the program…that she would consider that to be a personal failure, certainly not to move ‘down’ to regular or honors classes (which generally aren’t held in high regard here). AP…maybe, but then we are back to that memorization format, but could offer more flexibility.
So, why the homeschool response? Flexibility in homeschooling is appealing, particularly since we could consider some combination of online, dual enrollment, etc. And I freely admit there is a certain romance to the idea…“Wow, we could travel the country in a Winnebago and…” that sort of thing…not a likely scenario for us, but there is certainly an appeal to having the freedom to think outside the box!
The ‘box’ may actually be part of the problem. I think we are frustrated that the system is set up in the way that it is…If you want to be with academically like minded students, you have to be in IB, (or some special program), and because you are in a special program large amounts of homework can be dumped on you…and you can be expected to have to learn things on your own…or be told you can just opt out of the program. It is something of a trap, particululary with the program being so structured, not allowing choice of electives, or even much choice of which classes to take HL vs SL (which we just found out about this yr).</p>
<p>You have all given us much to consider and I will be rereading all of your comments…taking notes on some things to ask her GC and others.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>My daughter chose to attend the IB school in our district partly because the neighborhood school was less than optimal and she was attracted to the program. The IB teachers taught junior and senior year and they were the best teachers in the school. So in effect is was a small school within a large school and had more personal attention.</p>
<p>She was warned that junior year would be the most challenging and I think she found that to be true. She was also on a varsity sports team as well as club team so the hours she put in between both teams and her homework was epic. Being on a club team from a young age teaches a certain amount of time management and this worked well with the IB curriculum. She had to manage her time and her tasks efficiently otherwise she would fall behind.</p>
<p>She loves writing and it was a good fit for her and it sharpened her skills and felt it helped her in the college transition. The extended essay was a pleasure for her to work on and enjoyed working with an advisor, ultimately the experience guided her to choose a LAC over a university.</p>
<p>It may not be a program for everyone and if you can afford a school, which may provide a better education, thats great. For her it was the best option available and she is very happy with that decision. </p>
<p>AP is a good choice for kids that are strong in some subjects and not others and will benefit from picking and choosing courses.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I don’t recall IB having a lot of memorization, but my kids have always been good at that. But it did require tons of hard work and organizational skills. One of my kids thrived. The other really should have switched out prior to junior year. </p>
<p>Don’t trust that the teachers will be able to weed out those that can’t handle it. OP - Your D may be one of the kids that got her act together for through the rigor of pre-IB. But rest assured, there will be even more work and projects to juggle in junior and senior years.</p>
<p>My D loved the IB experience and it’s paid off big time in college. She can write anything and all of those poetry close analyses and DBQ skills are coming in handy. My son is a junior and he doesn’t like school as much as his sister and is working harder but not unduly stressed. He appears to have plenty of time for Ultimate Frisbee and Call of Duty, his true loves.</p>
<p>IB is tough because of the prescribed curriculum. AP lets you choose advanced courses in areas you like and excel in. </p>
<p>And it all comes down to the teachers, doesn’t it?</p>
<p>I home schooled one of my older children and not the other in grade school and middle school years. I wish I had home schooled them for high school. Kids who home school are actually passing the AP exams. My younger child, who home schools, is getting a way better education. My daughter, who did home school, had a much better education when she was home. We actually plan to home school the rest of our children through high school. The math education at the public school is what bothers me the most.</p>