<p>So, I just returned from my guidance counselor's office to fix up my schedule for senior year and the "college talk" eventually got going. She asked me, "Where are you thinking about applying to? Harvard, Yale, etc?" I respond with, "My mom would really like to me to stay instate and go to Duke, but I am entertaining the idea of applying to some LAC's such as Amherst, Williams, Pomona, Oberlin, etc." She is completely dumbfounded - "I have never even heard of those schools. Why would apply to no-name schools?" This is not an isolated incident either; my mother and the rest of my family are just shocked when I tell them that I want to apply to these "cryptic no-name schools". My mother will not be able to pay for any of my education because of our income, so I am applying through the Questbridge program and I really think I have a decent shot of getting accepted to some superb LAC's through this program (I have got the class rank, GPA, AP scores, SAT II scores, and maybe the SAT scores + diversity -> poor, Southern white boy). I am just so frustrated that no one is supporting me in my decision to choose to apply to LAC's. I plan on attending graduate school (I want to teach), so I think a liberal arts education would do me a great deal, but no one else seems to think so. Maybe it's just because I live in the South. The only colleges and universities everyone around here is familiar with are big sports schools. Frustration doesn't even begin to cover my emotions, argh! Help please?</p>
<p>Take control of the admissions process. You're the one filling out the forms; you're the one writing the essays (presumably) and keeping track of all the important timelines. Sure, include a couple of big names just to get everyone off your back. You can even pretend they're your first choices (believe me, this is not an uncommon approach), just make sure you have a few LACs, too. You can justify them on the basis that they're slightly easier to get into than HYPMS and carry just as much weight with graduate schools. That should satisfy your GC.</p>
<p>I went from North Carolina to Oberlin when all my guidance counselor knew about out of state was the Ivy League, and it was the best decision I ever made in my life. Stick to your guns--your instincts are right.</p>
<p>Doesn't your counselor know about how good is Davidson College, located in your state ? Maybe you could use it as a reference for LACs to your counselor or your family. Go with what you want!</p>
<p>Don't worry, your LAC frustration is not limited to your income bracket or your region.</p>
<p>My best friend went to a public HS in the northeast that sends a handful of students to top schools every year. (In the past, "top" has included Penn, Duke, Bard, University of Rochester, Columbia, Georgetown, Yale). Anyway, he was interested in a bunch of big-name schools, and Amherst. He got a lot of "I've never heard of it!" from his guidance counselor, but I think they stopped talking when they saw how much his family didn't have to pay for his education :-)</p>
<p>You can pull off information on Duke/Amherst on collegeboard (with help from CC-ers) and put them side-by-side numerically-- midrange SAT, acceptance rate, endowment per capita, you name it. A school like Amherst will compare very favorably to the schools on your list.</p>
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<p>Actually, my grandfather was talking college stuff with me last weekend and I mentioned Davidson as an example of an LAC. Here's what he said: "Davidson College? Is that even a top 500 school?" I proceed with: "It's ranked #9 in the nation in LAC's!" Jeez.</p>
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She is completely dumbfounded - "I have never even heard of those schools. Why would apply to no-name schools?"
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<p>Be sure to read this GC's vote in the upcoming edition of the Best Colleges of U.S. News. :)</p>
<p>Sligh, I think you need a new guidance counselor if yours has not heard of Amherst or Williams........Tell me you are kidding! If you are thinking education, have you thought about Vanderbilt? The Peabody School has a lot to offer a future ed major, and you can double major with A&S. Good luck. Do what your instincts tell you to do!</p>
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Help please?
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<p>SA, do not your frustration get the better of you. You are doing the right thing:</p>
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I am applying through the Questbridge program and I really think I have a decent shot of getting accepted to some superb LAC's through this program (I have got the class rank, GPA, AP scores, SAT II scores, and maybe the SAT scores + diversity -> poor, Southern white boy). I am just so frustrated that no one is supporting me in my decision to choose to apply to LAC's.
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<p>Forget your clueless GCs. The last thing in the world that is needed is the approval of members of this group. Concentrate on your QB application and start the process ... right now. Try to have all your essays done before the start of the school, and start seeking the LORs as soon as you return to class. Chances are that your clueless GC will not be too swift in getting transcripts and letters out on time. You may want to tell this person that you will use QB for the top universities. :)</p>
<p>Remember that QB is a lot more than the College Match program. The number of students who benefitted from the RD "forwarding" is much larger than the CM.</p>
<p>You'll just have to continue on without any help from your guidance counselor. I had the same thing happen to me when I was applying to OOS LAC's that are considered pretty good but my GC had never heard of. Where I'm from you just pick one of the state schools and go there...nobody ever goes OOS. So I just had to be really organized and tell my GC which forms to fill out and where to send them.</p>
<p>Before everybody rags on the GC, keep in mind that at schools like mine (and, probably, the OP's), 99% of the population has no interest in the best schools in the country, so there is no motivation for the GC to become well-informed about Amherst or Williams.</p>
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Before everybody rags on the GC, keep in mind that at schools like mine (and, probably, the OP's), 99% of the population has no interest in the best schools in the country, so there is no motivation for the GC to become well-informed about Amherst or Williams.
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<p>Could not disagree more! Knowing a little bit about Amherst or Williams should be the minimum one expects from someone who plays the role of a ... guidance counselor.</p>
<p>^^ Could not disagree more.
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The framework for Professional School Counselor responsibilities and roles is outlined in the ASCA (American School Counselor Association) National Model (2005). ASCA is the national organization for Professional School Counselors.
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None of the responsibilities and roles require knowing anything about Williams or Amherst. That's a ridiculous expectation for any guidance counselor.
My UCSF grad family doctor thought the only reason why I'm going to a top LAC is because I couldn't get into any UC.</p>
<p>Before coming to CC, I didn't even know a guidance counselor was supposed to give advice on the college admissions process. All mine ever did was write a recommendation letter that started with, "I don't know RacinReaver, since I just started this year, but he seems to be taking a lot of classes."</p>
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None of the responsibilities and roles require knowing anything about Williams or Amherst. That's a ridiculous expectation for any guidance counselor.
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<p>Middsmith, expecting a GUIDANCE counselor who collects a paycheck to know a minimum about the college landscape is not exactly the greatest of expectations. What good does it do for a GC to have guidance books in his or her office, if they simply gather dust? Should students not expect that the people who are supposed to GUIDE them know about the VARIOUS types of schools available to them? </p>
<p>This simply goes to a long history of accepting mediocrity and laziness from the people we are supposed to trust. </p>
<p>A GC who claims never having heard of Amherst or Williams and calls them "no-name" schools is an ignorant fool, and a disgrace to the profession.</p>
<p>^^^^ Your reasoning is the equivalent of expecting a waiter at Sizzler's to be at the level of a wine connoisseur when suggesting something to go with your $9.99 T-bone.</p>
<p>Not at all!</p>
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None of the responsibilities and roles require knowing anything about Williams or Amherst. That's a ridiculous expectation for any guidance counselor.
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<p>The irony: my guidance counselor helped me get off the waitlist ;D</p>
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^^^^ Your reasoning is the equivalent of expecting a waiter at Sizzler's to be at the level of a wine connoisseur when suggesting something to go with your $9.99 T-bone.
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<p>Your logic only accounts for the people who are unfortunate enough to eat at Sizzler's and be served by its incompetent waiters. Then again, in this case, it does seem to be an accurate analogy. But, even a Sizzler's would benefit greatly from friendly, personal, and knowledgeable waiters, no?</p>
<p>Here I thought a counselor's job is to get as many students to graduate from HS as possible. What's the percent of students that go to top LACs? 1%? 0.1%? If HS counselors to cater for these students, what about the other 99%? Realistically speaking, no effort should even be spent on such a tiny and probably self-sufficient group.
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Your logic only accounts for the people who are unfortunate enough to eat at Sizzler's and be served by its incompetent waiters.
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Sadly, HS students aspire to go to Amherst College is as rare as folks who have money to eat at Morton's
The rest of us could barely afford Sizzler's. And that's the whole point I was trying to make.</p>
<p>lol Middsmith! But it's true - the main roles of a public school GC these days are to process kids, set up class schedules, head off dangerous situations, etc. It's the top 1 or 2 percent of HS students who aspire to Williams, Amherst, Pomona and Oberlin. So knowing about those schools is irrelevant for 98 or 99 percent of a GC's clientele. Yes, Sligh - it is a Southern thing to some extent. For a lot of Southern students anything north of Richmond is in another country, and the loftiest goal imaginable is getting into the top fraternity at their state flagship. But with your credentials, you should be considering the LACs you cited. You've earned that privilege and I, for one, am both impressed and envious.</p>
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Here I thought a counselor's job is to get as many students to graduate from HS as possible. What's the percent of students that go to top LACs? 1%? 0.1%? If HS counselors to cater for these students, what about the other 99%? Realistically speaking, no effort should even be spent on such a tiny and probably self-sufficient group.
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<p>That post speaks volumes!</p>