Starting the Process: Berkeley vs. Amherst

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi:</p>

<p>I am helping my niece figure out the college "thing," as her dad passed away a few years ago and her mom is not so engaged in the process as she went to school overseas.</p>

<p>I am directing my questions to a) parents who have been helping their kids using this site or others; b) current students going though the process; c) people who know this site well. </p>

<p>I am incredulous (hence my handle) as to how complicated choosing colleges seems to be these days and how many applications people do -- I thought it was bad when I did it 10 years ago, but it's gotten worse it seems.</p>

<p>I have a personal bias towards big universities -- went to a large "public ivy" for college on the West Coast and an Ivy League school for grad school Back East. I had a great experience in both cases, but I recognize that my road map is not hers.</p>

<p>About her: I believe she will have her pick of any school she wants for the following reasons; she has high SAT scores, almost perfect grades, was focused and involved in school. Her personal style I would say is more urban and big city than suburban, small town, and frankly this makes the whole question tougher. Her ethnicity is Caucasian/Latina/African American mixture. Her story is compelling. She is smart enough to do a lot of this herself, but I want to bounce ideas off of her and I strongly believe that a combination of academic rigor and personal fit will comprise the right choice for her.</p>

<p>Does anybody have any guidance on helping sort out the following issues especially as it relates to navigating this site?</p>

<p>urban vs. suburban or even rural (I think she should choose urban, and she seems very inclined but I think she should be open-minded until at least the first cut; hence, the Berkeley vs. Amherst title).
large vs. small (I liked large and would choose it again, but the fact is that in grad school with some of the best peers in the nation in my field, the true standouts in terms of advanced preparation -- as opposed to intelligence -- were from places like Swarthmores/Amherst's/Williams' vs. the Princetons/Stanfords/Berkeleys.
private vs. public (I had a great undergrad experience at Berkeley and I believe in the public service mission, even while recognizing neither type is for everyone).</p>

<p>Maybe an NYU or Columbia would be good (I assume she'll get significant financial aid help 'cause her family is not so well off) because they are urban. She says she has wanted to go to Berkeley or Columbia, but as I mentioned, I don't want her to write off other options.</p>

<p>Thoughts/Guidance/Suggestions?</p>

<p>A Concerned Uncle</p>

2

<p>hmm, if she can afford it try visiting the different campuses.</p>

<p>The best way to get advice from people on this site for perspective on different schools is to post here her specific interests, then list potential schools, and people usually do a very good job of explaining all the nuances and differences between the perspective schools, and give advice as to how they relate to her and her personality.</p>

<p>IE: "i'm ______ kind of person from __<strong><em>, i like _</em></strong>_ people, i didn't like ____ about my high school but i liked <strong><em>. I don't think i want a school with _</em></strong> but i do want to have access to <strong><em>. </em></strong> kind of people bother me, but i want to go to a school where there are alot of _<strong><em>. _</em></strong> is important to me but ____ isn't so much.</p>

<p>Here are the schools i am looking at:</p>

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<p>suggestions, comments?"</p>

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<p>Hello and welcome, you're a wonderful uncle to help out in the college search :). Be sure to check out the Parent's forum, many people with incredible knowledge and experiences and parents of kids going through the process right now. There's even a thread dedicated to this year's senior class:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=141471%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=141471&lt;/a>
If you'd like, fill out a profile of your niece on it and I'm sure you'll get lots of comments.</p>

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<p>Incredulous:</p>

<p>What year is your niece? A senior or a junior? The reason I ask is that it's late for seniors because most of the campus visit programs have already taken place. But, if we are talking about next fall, both Swarthmore and Amherst would, almost certainly, fly your niece on their dime, to visit during their "diversity recruiting" events. Swarthmore just held theirs, with 150 minority students visiting campus, staying in dorm rooms with current students, and so forth. </p>

<p>Based on what you have described, you niece will be an attractive applicant at all of these schools. Letting her take advantage of these opportunities to visit the schools first-hand would really help her not only make a better decision, but be more confident in going off to college period because it won't be this "big unknown".</p>

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<p>I should have said she is a junior. I've been telling her to get going -- she is uncharacteristically not "jumping on" the process yet.</p>

<p>I appreciate your input.</p>

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<p>Thanks for asking that question idad, I was just assuming that she was a senior. Incred, go to this thread for a list of some of the colleges that have paid flyin and diversity weekends for URM's:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=250136%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=250136&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I agree with idad, that your niece will likely have lots of colleges anxious for her to attend. If she is interested in math/science, she should become a Venture Schoar (google it for the website). And if she does well enough on her PSAT she can qualify for the National Hispanic Recognition Program (qualifying scores vary by state and are not well publicized, but I think they are usually in the 180-190 range, search the financial aid forum for National Hispanic and you should find some information). You are correct to have her start the process right now as there are many opportunities available that can help her to find the right school at the right price.</p>

<p>My D is a URM senior this year, so PM me if you want more specifics. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I think a LACy hybrid in an urban environment with a solid campus life would be perfect. I vote Brown or Penn.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I should have said she is a junior. I've been telling her to get going -- she is uncharacteristically not "jumping on" the process yet

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's not unusual. Really, the only thing to do junior year is take advantage of any family opportunities to do initial overview drive-bys of appropriate schools.</p>

<p>The key for your niece will be to make contact with the admissions offices at appropriate schools and get on the minority "recruiting" lists to take advantage of the freebies. For example, I think that Swarthmore's deadline for applying to the free travel overnight visit deal is sometime around September 1st.</p>

<p>The same schools that have these fly in programs are often schools that have generous need-based aid. Depending on the financial situation, it is not unthinkable at all that some of the top private schools could actually be cheaper for your niece than Berkeley in-state.</p>

<p>My own personal opinion is that the budget cutbacks have made the UC universities quite unattractive for undergrad unless they are significantly less expensive. The class sizes at Berkeley have gotten out of hand. There was a TV clip recently of a lecture hall with 750 students including having to sit in the aisles due to overcrowding. That's not a great approach to undergrad education IMO. Having said that, a Calif student would be insane to not consider the UC's, if for no other reason than in-state tuition.</p>

<p>Be that as it may, it will be important for your niece to see some examples of different options so she can start narrowing the field: (too big, too rural, too cold, or whatever). Otherwise, the choices are overwhelming. It's all in progressively narrowing the search.</p>

<p>IMO, the adults role is play devil's advocate in the early going, trying help present pros and cons of each type of school and listening for clues from the student. For example, I was the devils advocate for large public universities in our family. After visiting two good ones, my daughter said, "Too big" and that narrowed the search accordingly.</p>