FSU and UF Team Up on Tuitions

<p>From the St.Pete Times: <a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/08/Perspective/Too_cheap__to_be_great.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/08/Perspective/Too_cheap__to_be_great.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>By SHANNON COLAVECCHIO VAN-SICKLER
Published October 8, 2006</p>

<p>Tuition at the University of Florida is too cheap for the school ever to become great, says its president, Bernie Machen.</p>

<p>And he is confident his institution is hot enough that students will shell out more to get in, even if it means taking out larger loans.</p>

<p>"I don't think there's any question we could charge more," Machen says. "We had 20,000 applications for 6,700 spots this fall."</p>

<p>But he can't, under current rules for Florida's 11 public universities. And that irritates him. So he is pushing for fundamental changes in how the system works.</p>

<p>Florida has both low tuition and nationally recognized programs. Yet Machen insists UF will never be ranked among the nation's top 10 public universities - his goal - unless he can bring in significantly higher tuition revenues.</p>

<p>"My biggest problem compared to the other top 20 universities in the country is the student-teacher ratio," he says, frustration in his voice.</p>

<p>"I have the highest ratio, 23 to 1, compared to the others. They were at 14 and 15 to 1. I want us to be able to compete for faculty, in terms of salaries and workloads, with the other top universities. We're never going to make the real top tier until we equalize that."</p>

<p>Tuition this year for Florida undergraduates is about $2,200, not including fees for health and other services. That's barely enough to maintain the status quo, Machen says, and leaves little to improve the caliber of UF's faculty or the quality of its academic programs.</p>

<p>The state's smaller, less prestigious universities can keep their rates low, he says, but UF and even Florida State University should be allowed to charge more.</p>

<p>"It seems to me that we have different needs at different institutions," Machen says. "Some universities can't afford to charge more and still get students. Well, fine, but don't hold us back because of that."</p>

<p>U.S. News & World Report recently ranked UF No. 13 among public universities in the country, up from No. 16 last year.</p>

<p>It is the only one of Florida's 11 public universities included in the invitation-only, 62-member Association of American Universities. UF brought in more than half a billion in research dollars last year, thanks in large part to its esteemed medical school. UF has the highest admissions standards in the state, with a majority of admitted students scoring more than 1400 on the SAT.</p>

<p>It's little wonder bright students are passing up Ivy Leagues to attend. A recent USA Today comparison of tuition and fees at the nation's 75 flagship public universities put UF dead last. Florida State University was next to last.</p>

<p>Tuition at the University of Michigan is three times higher than UF's. Students at Penn State University pay four times as much.</p>

<p>The board that oversees Florida's 11 universities is considering a 7 percent tuition increase for undergraduates next year. That amounts to about $5 more per credit hour, or $155 a year for the typical student taking 15 credits per semester. It would raise an additional $27.5-million.</p>

<p>But that won't even put a dent in the university system's needs, says Mark Rosenberg, chancellor of the state university system.</p>

<p>"If tuition were to go up 41 percent next year, and 8 percent every year for the following five years, we would still be below the median tuition nationwide," Rosenberg says.</p>

<p>Last year, universities asked for a 5 percent tuition increase. The Legislature approved only 3 percent.</p>

<p>Why are Florida lawmakers willing to sell their schools so cheap?</p>

<p>Blame two popular state programs that obligate the state to cover hundreds of millions of dollars in undergraduate tuition each year.</p>

<p>Under the Florida Prepaid tuition program, parents lock in a tuition rate when their children are young and pay toward it all at once or during the years leading up to college. The state pays the difference between that locked-in rate and the rate in place when the student enrolls in a state university or community college.</p>

<p>The state's Bright Futures scholarship pays most or all of undergraduate in-state tuition for students meeting SAT and high school GPA requirements.</p>

<p>Last year, Bright Futures covered all or part of the tuition for more than 95 percent of UF freshmen. Nearly half of all undergraduates in the 11 state universities are on Bright Futures. Cost to the state: more than $335-million last year.</p>

<p>When tuition rises significantly, so does the state's obligation.</p>

<p>"The system is book-ended by those two programs, and it almost assures a minimalist approach to university financing," Rosenberg says. "It may be satisfying that we can provide scholarships for more than 40 percent of our students, but the question is, 'Is the quality of education sufficient to make them competitive in the world?' "</p>

<p>Machen doesn't think so.</p>

<p>"If you look at tuition and fees at each university in this state, for 15 credit hours, who do you think is the cheapest?" Machen asked. "We are. Now does that make any sense at all, for us to have the lowest tuition and fees when we are considered the top university in Florida?</p>

<p>"It just doesn't make any sense."</p>

<p>With higher tuition, Machen says he could offer higher salaries to retain his best faculty and attract additional professors who are tops in their fields. That would reduce classroom sizes and improve the education his nearly 50,000 students receive.</p>

<p>Now three years into his tenure, Machen has had no luck convincing lawmakers. But going into the 2007 session, Machen has support from a powerful ally - Florida State president T.K. Wetherell, the well-connected former House speaker and lobbyist.</p>

<p>Wetherell wants to get FSU into the AAU. Toward that end, he plans to hire 200 additional faculty over the next several years, to do work in interdisciplinary "clusters" meant to strengthen FSU's research and graduate studies.</p>

<p>The initiative will cost tens of millions, and higher tuition would help immensely.</p>

<p>So Wetherell says he'll be right there with Machen this spring, seeking the power to charge students more.</p>

<p>"Give us the authority, and we'll take the heat so legislators don't have to," Wetherell says. "Let's just add $1,000. Just let us try it for three or four years and see what happens. My guess is, the students will still come and every other university will want to do it."</p>

<p>The question is, will Bright Futures cover higher tuition? Or will students and their families have to pay the difference, either from loans or from their own pockets?</p>

<p>Wetherell says lawmakers could approve an "addendum" that allows Bright Futures recipients attending FSU and UF to have the higher tuition covered.</p>

<p>Financial aid could cover the difference for needy students.</p>

<p>Either way, something has to change, Wetherell says.</p>

<p>He points out that his granddaughter's second-grade tuition at a private school in Tallahassee costs about $8,500 a year. "As good as Machen and I are, asking us to run a world-class institution on half the tuition of a second-grader, well, it just can't be done."</p>

<p>Can you post this on the UF forum. Would greatly appreciate it.</p>

<p>Done... :)</p>

<p>Lets also not forget to add:</p>

<p>UF is strongly endorsing FSU's admission into the AAU.</p>

<p>Yep. I heard UF and Emory, I think, are. It's essential for FSU and helps UF as well.</p>

<p>Also, the two gubernatorial candidates both endorse the idea tha UF and FSU are the two flagship schools in Florida and will be supported as such.</p>

<p>This same debate is going on at the UF Forum and it's getting kinda nasty. I expect this to be a hot debate next session. Hopefully the top leadership (who ever it may be) will be sympathetic to the idea of having nationally recognized universities.</p>

<p>This is very political, locally. UF and FSU are considered the flagship U's in Florida by most, but the state senators and representatives have a lot of pressure on them by the non-flagship U's to have all the universities to be considered "regional" and for them all to have about the same tuition,etc. UCF and USF and the others do NOT want to see UF and FSU be able to charge more tuition. And yes, Fla Prepaid and Bright Futures assumees the tuition to be similar throughout the state U system. And these programs will put a hugh strain on the state if tuitions rise substantially. Tuition always sounds a bit low, but the separate local "fees" cost about as much as the tuition, so the total cost is more than is implied by the figures listed above. Why not raise tuition for all state U's and bring them all up in ranking? Personally, I would favor raising tuition at UF and FSU and allow them to rise even further in the rankings and to obtain/sustain a more national level of prestige. But as a state, the real money needs to be spent on improving K-12 education.</p>

<p>"But as a state, the real money needs to be spent on improving K-12 education."</p>

<p>I think our State Universities are equally as important as the K -12. This so called Class Size Initiative is a very poorly exectued means of fixing our education problems.</p>

<p>The latest I heard is that Crist more supports the flagship universities and Davis more the K-12. Either way, K-12 will have to addressed; but the flagships are essential if Florida will ever compete with California universities.</p>

<p>And they need to!</p>

<p>"but the state senators and representatives have a lot of pressure on them by the non-flagship U's to have all the universities to be considered "regional" and for them all to have about the same tuition,etc. UCF and USF and the others do NOT want to see UF and FSU be able to charge more tuition."</p>

<p>This is why it's so imperative the alumni from from FSU & UF can unite to form a grassroots coalition to stop what amounts to only a trough system between the State University System. Both of these flagship universities are so far out of UCF & USF's league that is unbelievable that we even have to resort to this.</p>

<p>I am not so worried about UCF, because in a way they are beholden to both universities. Believe me their medical school is not a done deal quite yet.</p>

<p>They may want to be careful for out-of-state students who wish to study at each university as well - even though they may never get the deal that in-state students get, you don't want to make it unattainable to others outside FL...(I attended FSU out of state)</p>

<p>I think that because FSU & UF are ranked in the top-25 by the last Kiplinger's rankings for best college values, that it gives the cause even more leverage over the State legislatures to raise in-state tuition.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.kiplinger.com/personalfinance/tools/colleges/pubcollege.php?sortby=INRANK04&orderby=flip&states%5B%5D=ALL&myschool%5B%5D=none&outputby=table%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kiplinger.com/personalfinance/tools/colleges/pubcollege.php?sortby=INRANK04&orderby=flip&states%5B%5D=ALL&myschool%5B%5D=none&outputby=table&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Both FSU and UF cooperate on many levels now. We can get this done.</p>

<p>USA TODAY's 2006 College Tuition & Fees Survey</p>

<p>USA TODAY's annual survey of tuition and fees at 75 public flagship universities in 50 states looks at figures for first-year, full-time freshmen and includes all mandatory and major-specific fees assessed for students in basic Arts and Sciences programs. </p>

<p>The 2 lowest are FSU & UF</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-08-30-tuition-survey_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-08-30-tuition-survey_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>notice there were 38 others on that list with lower out-of-state rates...That's the gap I'm worried about.</p>

<p>Looks like UF is trying to get around the limited tuition increases by imposing a $500 per semester fee starting with new freshmen in 2007. The fee will be waived for low income students. This increase will not be covered by the Bright Futures Scholarships. FSU already has an additional transportation access fee paid by credit hour that is not covered by the Bright Futures and is not covered by the Florida Prepaid Local Fee Plan.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-uf11_106nov11,0,2050061.story?coll=orl-home-headlines%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-uf11_106nov11,0,2050061.story?coll=orl-home-headlines&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I would expect FSU to try and be right with them. I know Wetherell has been talking about this for quite a while.</p>

<p>Looks like FSU will be right with UF on this:</p>

<p>Tallahassee</a> Democrat Alert</p>

<p>If FSU invokes the "fee", I sure hope they phase it in like UF is doing so current students don't feel the pinch and new students will already know what to expect before they accept admission. Since tuition/fees are about $1500 per semester currently (for 15 credits), this is an unexpected one third increase that is coming directly out of the student's pocket and not covered by the Bright Futures or Prepaid tuition plans.</p>

<p>Perhaps the Florida Prepaid program will modify their local fee plan to help families save for the existing "transportation access fee" and the proposed "beyond" tuition fee FSU is thinking of invoking. The biggest chunk of money for school is actually the room and board which continues to increase each year as well.</p>

<p>I would think they would...they know that families and students have to come up with the money. Without this extra money though, neither FSU nor UF will be able to compete with other national universities.</p>