<p>
</p>
<p>Many of those areas are also populated more thickly than the non-California parts of the western US.</p>
<p>The best schools are not necessarily in areas populated first, but rather in the areas industrialized first. But that’s beside the point.</p>
<p>The age of an engineering school does not impact the decision making of employers. Employers look at location, salaries, their experience with students from that school, percent of students that go to grad school (which is a negative), and the school’s ranking. If you attend the Franklin W. Olin school of engineering (founded in 1997), people don’t discount you based on the age of the university because of the ranking and reputation.</p>
<p>As far as “time, location, and money” - first you have to consider that the recruiters do not decide what schools to target. The target schools are set usually by a committee in human resources. Since they are not visiting the schools, they do not care if the location is Orlando or Gainesville (and, by the way, Tallahassee isn’t any nicer than Gainesville). Also, time is not much of a consideration. It takes the same amount of time to recruit in Cambridge as it does to recruit in Gainesville (basically your recruiters will lose an entire day of work). </p>
<p>As someone who has sat on several of these decision making committees, I can tell you that what recruiters actually do is first segment their needs into Man-Power (or MP - I just need someone with some basic engineering education) and Brain-Power (or BP - I need a high quality engineer that can solve difficult problems). For MP positions, you go to the local lower tier schools. For BP positions, you go to the nationally ranked top schools and the schools that your competitors target. You probably also go to the any local flagship schools (so in Florida, that’s UF and if you’re in Orlando that would also include UCF) because it is important to build relationships in the local community. </p>
<p>After you select your schools, you track the performance of graduates from that school over time as well as metrics from recruiting at that school (% of offers accepted, etc). If a school’s graduates or metrics under perform, you drop that school and add another. If recruiting picks up, you add another.</p>
<p>So where does that leave an FSU engineering student? By going there you’re almost exclusively putting yourself in the lower-wage MP segment. Is hope lost? Not if you can act like Todd Combs and work your way to Columbia Business School or another top graduate school. Otherwise, you’ll need to at least start your career in an MP-type positions and work you way up to a BP-type position.</p>
<p>So I guess that’s a long way of saying that engineering types are slotted. If you need empirical evidence, look at the starting salaries coming out of Georgia Tech, Texas A&M, Purdue, Michigan, Illinois, Rice, CMU, etc. for engineers in engineering positions (ignore the people going into consulting or banking). You’ll find that they’re remarkably similar.</p>
<p>Now look at the same for Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Clemson, South Carolina, FSU. Again, they’ll be remarkably similar to each other, but substantially below the first group.</p>
<p>The engineering positions may be slotted INITIALLY. This also assumes that these non-computer software engineers will stay with these employers for 5, 7 or 10 years straight. As mentioned in other threads, other non-computer software engineers will not have the opportunity to gain the “new hot skill” that will propel them past others who chose to stay with their initial employers for 5+ more years.</p>
<p>In the software engineering world, we change employers so much to the point that 3 years is considered a good stay. When you add in the usual 10-15% bump for each new job. That starting slotted salary difference has been made up.</p>
<p>I can agree with the slotted theory. Engineers (including software engineers) who choose to stay 10 years with their initial employer have to understand that they will still trail their co-workers from top-10 schools in pay…if one is going to use the “linear approach” to their career…which also puts you at the mercy of your employer.</p>
<p>For the engineers who can gain a grasp of how business and economics works and specifically the simple principle of supply-and-demand, one can reduce that “mercy” of the employer. It seems from the posts that only software development/engineering offers…hence, why there is less emphasis placed on schools attended.</p>
<p>Obviously you can move up based on skills and experience, but it’s more difficult. As we’ve debated to death, getting hired at Chevron puts you on a very different career path than being hired at Joe’s Drilling Company after a BS. Even after that first job, you’ll get different interviews and salaries for that second job based on your first positions’ company. Also, at Chevron you’ll work in much larger and probably more innovative work than at Joe’s.</p>
<p>We’re kind of starting to circle back in discussion so let me close with just a few observations.</p>
<p>First of all, thank you for your thoughts on the status of undergraduate engineering, especially in Florida. As an FSU alumnus, and a contributing one at that, I have had discussions with both presidents Barron and Wetherell regarding the College of Engineering at Florida State University. You can bet I will be bending the ears of those in positions of authority at Florida State concerning your thoughts.</p>
<p>Frankly, if you are in industry and overlook the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering or suspect it unworthy, may I say I think you are corporate fools for leading your company interests away from Tallahassee. FSU has been investing millions in STEM for some time now and you should know they have world-class facilities in the sciences and engineering. As an example consider:</p>
<p>[National</a> High Magnetic Field Laboratory<a href=“next%20door%20to%20the%20FAMU-FSU%20CoE”>/url</a> [url=<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V110/N31/magnet.31n.html]FSU”>http://tech.mit.edu/V110/N31/magnet.31n.html]FSU</a> won the facility away from MIT in 1990.](<a href=“http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/]National”>http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/)</p>
<p>[Aero-Propulsion</a>, Mechatronics and Energy Building (AME)](<a href=“http://www.eng.fsu.edu/me/research/ame.html]Aero-Propulsion”>http://www.eng.fsu.edu/me/research/ame.html)
</p>
<p>[FSU Department of Chemistry](<a href=“http://www.chem.fsu.edu/chair-message.php”>A Decade of Prosperity (1950-1960) - Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry)
</p>
<p>I could list more, but I suspect this is enough. If not, you deserve to shop for engineering graduates at schools with a 30-to-1 student-faculty ratio. Lots of luck with that.</p>
<p>As for Tallahassee, it is the state capitol and FSU is the oldest institution of higher learning in Florida. Banjo, your “flagship” remark is in error. For example, a flagship university is not what you suggest it is. For a reliable definition, let’s consult someone who is both a historian and an expert on higher education - [Robert</a> M. Berdahl, PhD, President of the Association of American Universities and former chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=9064]Robert”>http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=9064)</p>
<p>Dr. Berdahl says this about what constitutes a “flagship” university:
See: [Flagship[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Florida State University is one of the two flagship universities in Florida. Whenever UF starts acting differently, [url=<a href=“http://jacksonville.com/news/politics/2010-04-12/story/uf-flagship’-status-doesn’t-last-long-critics-attack-senate-bill]we”>UF 'flagship' status doesn't last long, as critics attack Senate bill]we</a> FSU alumni remind them of their place.](<a href=“http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm]Flagship[/url”>http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm) Further, FSU will join with UF in defense of our shared original status. See: [St</a>. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search](<a href=“St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search”>St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search)</p>
<p>But, then again I am a Florida native and I know something about such things.</p>
<p>Parent2noles, first, thank-you for responding to my thread. You have been a wealth of knowledge on this and other threads I have read. Please don’t think that I am in any way degrading the image of FSU – FSU is a great institution. I am a Florida native also, having grown up cheering for FSU while living in the southern and northern parts of the state. Also, FSU was mine and my son’s first choice when he was preparing to major in Business, then Law. In fact, I planned to attend also to finish up some graduate studies. I had my two younger teenage children sold on the idea of attending FSU, also. My daughter is interested in Fashion Design and Merchandising, and FSU is one of the few major universities in the southern region that have that area of study (Auburn does also). My other son is a computer genius and was interested in FSU’s Comp Science/Business/Law. But, let me get back on point – My oldest son decided to change his major to Mechanical Engineering and that made me take a long, deep look at the FSU CoE …. or should I say the FAMU-FSU CoE. Most ranking systems I have researched have the FAMU-FSU CoE ranked well over 100. Some only list it as the FAMU CoE. I may be reading older information, but you get the point. I read the CoE pages and it looks like the students graduate very well prepared for the job. They also seem to be getting a good amount of research money and good press. But, it is hard for me to convince my son to attend the FAMU-FSU CoE over Auburn’s, when Auburn’s is more highly ranked and FSU’s will always be known as “FAMU-XXX”. It will also probably never progress until it is its own free-standing CoE. He has studied hard during high school – getting a 32 on the ACT as a HS Junior, attending a local college for Dual-enrollment Pre-Calculus and getting a perfect grade, taking AP Calculus and other AP courses, getting national awards for speech and debate competitions, etc…. He chose not to apply to the “big” schools and I supported his choice, but to be honest, I can’t in good faith support him attending the FAMU-FSU CoE. Again, please accept my deepest gratitude for your efforts on this thread. You, Global and Banjo have been an asset to our decision making process. I have shown him the thread and he is now even more interested in the field after reading Global/Banjo’s assessment of the field. He’s looking ahead at graduate degrees in the field of Tech Management and/or Business to build upon his choice of ME, in order to position himself better in the market – and we would never have know this option if it wasn’t for the dedication of the posters here. Thank-you all.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You shouldn’t be so presumptuous. As a Florida native and a former Noles fan, I also know such things. However, I have worked college recruiting with several Fortune 500 schools that FSU students would love to work for, and I have never seen a team outside of the Florida panhandle seriously consider Florida State for engineering.</p>
<p>Why? First of all, you can look at NSF data for research expenditures in engineering. Florida State-Florida A&M ($35 million) ranks behind USF ($39 million) with nearly 1/3 of the research expenditures on engineering as UF ($92 million). That is not indicative of a serious engineering program. In addition, look at the USNews rankings: #102, behind UF (30), UCF (75) and near USF (119). Then take a look at the statistics for Florida A&M admissions: Average SAT 923/1600, 1372/2400, average GPA: 2.94 with 55% of students with a HS GPA below 3.0. And remember: that’s weighted GPA (FSU and FAMU use a ridiculous weighting system for freshman reporting).</p>
<p>You can build all of the new buildings you want (and everyone else is, as well). But until those issues are addressed (research funding, rankings, and selectivity in admission), employers will avoid the school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is not. The Flagship school for engineering in the state is Florida. The flagship school for engineering in the Southeast is Georgia Tech. You can also have local flagships (by city) and for the Central Florida technology corridor, UCF is the local flagship.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We’ve been doing very well at schools other than Florida, and based on your flippant remarks facing criticism, it sounds like we will continue to do that.</p>
<p>Floribama, glad to be of some help in your decision. Were it my son, I’d have him consider Georgia Tech over probably all other engineering schools in the SE.</p>
<p>As I have already written, I think the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering needs to split, for reasons including your own analyses. I see no advantage to FSU whatsoever in maintaining the existing organization. There is no place for an HBCU-style College of Engineering at a national, post-racial university like Florida State University.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son!</p>
<p>Banjo, for engineering, I agree UF does have the best program in Florida. I think the use of the term “flagship” is unnecessary and typically culminates in an extension to the rest of the school that is in error as I have explained. If you qualify use of the word by following it with “engineering” then you’ll have no complaint from me.</p>
<p>Your criticism of the FAMU-FSU CoE carries weight with me and I don’t disregard it. Indeed, I think the program needs to be split, as I described earlier. FSU engineering will suffer as long as it is perceived by external consumers as some sort of HBCU extension program. The State of Florida already supports FAMU as a public HBCU to the tune of millions and millions of taxpayer dollars every year. If that mission is vital as a public good they might as well have a similarly aligned engineering program. </p>
<p>My concern is getting FSU, as a post-racial university, focused on developing a nationally competitive engineering college which should work in synergy with the associated advanced programs already present and being developed. </p>
<p>
I make no apologies for being a passionate FSU alumnus. When FSU builds it, your firm and/or the firms you support will come.</p>
<p>While I agree it would be better for FSU to make the split, you might be interested to know that some companies recruit there precisely because it isn’t…for reasons of diversity and inclusion.</p>
<p>Such would seem to be a niche undergraduate engineering school, which would be perfect for FAMU to manage on its own I would think.</p>
<p>Another thought would be to simply rename the College, emphasizing that FSU is 80% of the organization.</p>
<p>FAMU’s Velencia Witherspoon Earns National Research Grant</p>
<p>Link:</p>
<p>[News</a> Headlines - Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University 2011](<a href=“Page Not Found”>Page Not Found)</p>
<p>GT had 33 students win that award this year.</p>
<p>Interesting read:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nafeo.org/community/web2010/documents/NAFEO_Comments_RE%20NSF%20CAP-US.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nafeo.org/community/web2010/documents/NAFEO_Comments_RE%20NSF%20CAP-US.pdf</a></p>
<p>The latest charts of who graduates from this engineering college. </p>
<p>[FAMU-FSU</a> College of Engineering :: College Statistics](<a href=“http://eng.fsu.edu/about/college_statistics.html]FAMU-FSU”>http://eng.fsu.edu/about/college_statistics.html)</p>
<p>The vast majority at all levels are FSU students.</p>
<p>Make since almost 3 1/2 times more students attend FSU than FAMU.</p>
<p>[Florida</a> A&M University Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1037]Florida”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1037)</p>
<p>Florida A&M University
Tallahassee, FL</p>
<p>Undergraduate Students 10,244
Women 6,014 (58.7%)
Men 4,230 (41.3%)
Graduate Students 2,030</p>
<p>[Florida</a> State University Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=817]Florida”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=817)</p>
<p>Florida State University
Tallahassee, FL</p>
<p>Undergraduate Students 30,803
Women 16,973 (55.1%)
Men 13,830 (44.9%)
Graduate Students 8,982</p>
<p>The average salary for the 08-09 ME graduates from FSU is low ($39,500) - Grads must not be getting offers from the high-profile firms:
[Communication</a> - Matching Majors to Occupations - The Career Center – Linking Futures](<a href=“http://www.career.fsu.edu/stats/20082009employmentsurvey.html]Communication”>http://www.career.fsu.edu/stats/20082009employmentsurvey.html)</p>
<p>Have you misread the data? Looks like the average salary is $46,755, for all majors, not just engineering. Plus, the data presented does NOT reflect all hiring.</p>
<p>That’s the value next to mechanical engineering (ME) but it may be a typo - it seems VERY low; my S just graduated from UF and is starting this month at $65k (plus bonuses which will push his first year salary over 85k)</p>
<p>From the link you listed I saw no major-specific starting salaries. Only university aggregates, and then only those reported.</p>
<p>For engineering in FL UF is the best choice. Until FSU can break free from FAMU, that is…</p>