<p>Hello everyone. First thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my thread. My son is planning on either attending Auburn University or Florida State University. He wanted to get a degree in Econoimics, then move on to a law degree. Now he has gone back to his original passion of mechanical engineering, and then MAYBE a law degree. Auburn has a great CoE and a great reputation. FSU, as a university, has a great reputation, but I do not like what I am finding out about the status and reputation of its engineering school. It seems the issue deals with its ties with FAMU.
The scholarships to AU and FSU are virtually the same, so price is not in the mix. He visited both campuses and was equally impressed. He also understands the parties, sports and lving conditions will be about the same, except Tallahasse is about 3 times the size of Auburn/Opelika. I have read both AU and FSU CoE websites. So, no big issues, except the CoE reputaions.
I have no issues with FAMU as a college. As someone who lives near Tuskegee University and Alabama State University, I know the value of HBCUs -- but I want to know if my son would be "wasting" his time getting an engineering degree from FSU only to be overlooked by most recruiters/businesses because of the CoE status.
Please do not respond with the normal UF/FSU/FAMU/SEC back-and-forth banter or a debate on HBCUs. It's been played out for years on this site and its really getting dull. I just want to know if it's worth persuing an engineering degree at FSU. Yes, UF, UCF, AU, MIT, etc... are ranked better, I don't care -- I just want any information about FSU's CoE.
Again thank you for taking the time to answer my thread. I very much appreciate any advice you may have.</p>
<p>Where is the FSU / FAMU College of Engineering physically located? Mapping web sites say that the two campuses are about 7 miles apart.</p>
<p>If studying engineering at FSU or FAMU, it may be more convenient to enroll at whichever of FSU or FAMU is the “host” campus, because it may be inconvenient to have to commute to the “other” campus for some classes (it would be unwise to schedule back to back classes if they are at different campuses). On the other hand, if the two schools have separate career centers, and employers favor one over the other, that may be something to consider, even if the engineering courses are identical.</p>
<p>Mechanical Engineering at FSU and FAMU is [ABET</a> accredited](<a href=“http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/AccreditationSearch.aspx]ABET”>http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/AccreditationSearch.aspx).</p>
<p>As far as recruiting goes, the university career center will tend to attract (a) local companies, and (b) out of area companies in proportion to the reputation of the school in the major. Students at a less well known school not near local companies hiring graduates of their major need to be more aggressive at finding companies to apply to, rather than watching them show up at the career center.</p>
<p>FSU does have an [employment</a> survey](<a href=“http://www.career.fsu.edu/stats/20082009employmentsurvey.html]employment”>http://www.career.fsu.edu/stats/20082009employmentsurvey.html), although it does not have much detail like what percentage of graduates were employed, still seeking employment, or going to graduate school.</p>
<p>Regardless of which university he goes to, doing an engineering or science major and then going to law school opens up the possibility of going into patent and intellectual property law.</p>
<p>Some facts to consider:</p>
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<li><p>The dean at the joint FAMU-FSU College of Engineering recently stepped down and a search is underway for his replacement. See: [Interim</a> dean chosen for FAMU-FSU College of Engineering / News - FSU.com](<a href=“http://www.fsu.com/News/Interim-dean-chosen-for-FAMU-FSU-College-of-Engineering]Interim”>http://www.fsu.com/News/Interim-dean-chosen-for-FAMU-FSU-College-of-Engineering)</p></li>
<li><p>FSU and FAMU may split the College, but when is uncertain. FSU alumni, like me, see this College as being driven in two directions - FAMU wants to follow their HBCU tradition while FSU is aggressively enhancing STEM while pursuing admission to the AAU. The College of Engineering is essential to AAU admission for FSU. The college is composed of some 80% FSU faculty and students and some 20% FAMU faculty and students. The only way this College is going to go is up.</p></li>
<li><p>Remarkably, the College’s budget was NOT reduced in this era of cutbacks. The state Legislature knows that the College acts in synergy with the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory (located at FSU, near the College of Engineering) and other advanced research facilities in the area.</p></li>
<li><p>Even with the mission friction the College of Engineering still ranks third in Florida (UF is first by a wide margin, then UCF closely followed by FSU) in some lists, noting such rankings are typically controversial, but first in graduating black engineers.</p></li>
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<p>Like many of these “which school is better” questions, it really depends on the individual and where they find they can perform. Graduating from FSU with an engineering degree will still allow impressive employment if the student performs well.</p>
<p>UCBALUMNUS and PARENT2NOLES, thank you very much for your replies. I have a few follow-up questions, though. P2N, I have heard the schools were thinking about a split since the mid-2000’s, but it was decided in either 2008 or 2009 that they would stay together. Has this issue come up again or is it now just a dead-end idea? I understand it would be beneficial for FSU, but not FAMU and would not be good publicity for FSU if they decided to do it on their own. In other words, FAMU holds all the decision power and there is no-way it’s going to happen. Secondly, I may be over-analyzing this a little too much, but your last paragraph seems to lean towards the fact that industry recruiters do not hold the program in high esteem and would only stop by if there was a stand-out student to look at. I’m sure my son would do fine in the course as he has a perfect GPA in HS and as a dual-enrolled college student. He also earned a 32 on the ACT – but I would really like recruiters seeking out grads from his college instead of just accepting them if they apply. Lastly, is this program known as a minority engineering program throughout the industry? Again, thank-you for your anwers.</p>
<p>Besides FSU and AU, what other schools did he get accepted at, and what are the reasons for choosing FSU or AU over them?</p>
<p>UCBALUMNUS, during the application timeframe last year, I was in the process of preparing for a transfer at work. The areas were Tallahasse, Jacksonville and Raleigh (NC). He applied to FSU, UNF, Stetson and NCSU. We also applied to Auburn, in case I was not transferred, as we live in central Alabama. He was accepted to all universities, with academic-type scholarships. Now as time has gone by, my job opportunity is either in Tallahassee or I can stay here. He wants to live at home during school and I am fine with that. My decision right now is to transfer to Tallahassee or stay here for him to attend AU. I am from Florida and was hoping to move closer to family, but I will forgo that if it means my son having to attend a less than reputable CoE. UNF in Jacksonville has a decent program, but they are not well known. NCSU has a great program, but I will not be headed that way. Thank-you for taking the time to reply to my post.</p>
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<p>I strongly disagree with that comment. Companies do not look at all engineering graduates the same - instead engineering graduates tend to be segmented. On one hand you have highly skilled labor, which are your $60,000 / year engineers that manage large world-scale plants, work on design, or pursue alternative careers like law, business, and medical school. On the other hand, you have low cost labor, which are your $40,000 / year engineers that have a hard time finding employment, and when they do it is in a rural plant performing quasi-engineering analysis. </p>
<p>When considering where to attend, you need to think about how your school will position you (as being seen as highly skilled labor or low cost labor) in the three key areas of employment: 1. highly coveted non-engineering positions (banking, consulting), 2. national employers, and 3. local employers. Neither FSU nor Auburn will position you well for the non-engineering positions or for national employers. As low ranked schools, they will primarily compete at a local employment level.</p>
<p>FSU has the disadvantage of having UF and UCF in-state. Both schools graduate large classes, are well established, and have better reputations. So if you’re in Tampa, why would you go to FSU to hire when you could go to UCF or UF? As a result, FSU is primarily seen as a low-cost labor pool by local employers.</p>
<p>Auburn has the disadvantage of having Georgia Tech relatively close. However, Georgia Tech traditionally places students in categories 1 and 2 and not in 3 (local employers). Of the schools that staff to local employment in the area, Auburn is the best school in Alabama and really only competes with Clemson in the area. Georgia is developing an engineering school to complete with Auburn and Clemson, but that is several years away.</p>
<p>So if his only option are those two schools, Auburn probably positions him much better for the market place than FSU.</p>
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<p>Employers aren’t looking for one student - they look at schools at an aggregate level. He could be the greatest student in the history of AU/FSU, but if he does not attend a target school for that employer, he is going to seek them out, they won’t come to him. And he if does seek them out, he’ll go in the pile with 10,000 other resumes from non-target schools.</p>
<p>With a 4.0 HS GPA, 32 ACT, and minority, he probably could have received a full scholarship to Georgia Tech, which is the school that graduates the most black engineers in the country. That would have positioned him much better for an engineering career and for grad school.</p>
<p>BanjoHitter, thank-you for taking the time to analyze the situation. I believe you have put into words the engineering college/industry levels. Although, he is not a minority. Great job and thanks.</p>
<p>I love FSU, but I don’t think I’d ever attend their CoE… with those stats, Banjo is right on the money, he should be going to Georgia Tech.</p>
<p>Floribama, from what I hear in the alumni network work is still being done for Florida State to get out of the shared engineering college with FAMU. In sum, the engineering program might be good for FAMU, but is decidedly not good for Florida State University. The tail is wagging the dog, in my opinion. The state of Florida would be better off if the program were split, as the goal is developing nationally competitive programs that stimulate the state economy, not merely catering to one particular group, even if disadvantaged. If this specialized goal is that important then let FAMU run an HBCU-style school on their own and have FSU run an engineering school that complements FSU’s mission.</p>
<p>For example, incoming engineering students at the shared school have GPAs and ACT/SAT scores lower than the general FSU student body. Usually, engineering students scores are above the general student body. Unacceptable, in my opinion. </p>
<p>I would agree that if engineering is the goal then GTech is likely preferred over any Florida or Alabama engineering school. </p>
<p>Another thought is that you son could attend AU or FSU for engineering then seek a graduate degree from GT. How would that be seen in industry, Banjo?</p>
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<p>That would be fine. However, you’d have next to no chance to get into GT’s graduate school from FSU.</p>
<p>I will say this again about graduate school admissions…</p>
<p>Full-time funded graduate admissions are the only category in which your prior school may omit you. Once you apply to either part-time or distance/online options of graduate programs AND/OR have experience already, the admission requirements reduce.</p>
<p>College is still a business. No graduate program is going to reject an experienced engineer with an employer-sponsored tuition-reimbursement check and who has proven to do graduate coursework.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.pmase.gatech.edu/application.php#AdmissionsRequirements[/url]”>http://www.pmase.gatech.edu/application.php#AdmissionsRequirements</a></p>
<p>GRE’s are not even required</p>
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Just to be clear, we are ONLY talking about engineering.</p>
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<p>Yes, a FSU and even a FAMU grad can get into certain Georgia Tech graduate ENGINEERING programs. I do not know about the full-time/fully funded ones, but the part-time/distance/online options?..yes, indeed.</p>
<p>Correct, GT. A family member of mine graduated from FSU in meteorology then enrolled in GTech for a grad degree - no problem. Banjo’s contention does not apply elsewhere regarding FSU grads.</p>
<p>All the engineers in my family were schooled in CA, MD and WV so I have limited info about matriculation from the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering. I also have my doubts engineering grads are slotted, as Banjo suggests, into engineering castes…at least American engineering grads.</p>
<p>Since engineering is business I’d think they hire the best they can get at the least expense. Otherwise, India’s Bombay IIT grads would be all billionaires by now…</p>
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<p>What is your alternative explanation for the fact that different companies visit UF and FSU?</p>
<p>This is just like any business. Companies have to make a decision regarding what schools to target and schools position themselves based on certain qualities to attract employers. Some schools take the high quality approach and some schools take the low cost approach. Occasionally you’ll see schools in the middle (moderate cost, moderate quality), but that only happens in areas with many engineering schools (most places only have a few). There are some other schools that use other qualities to attract employers (Penn State and VT use size; UT and TAMU use location, etc), but that is rare.</p>
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<p>It is about the best quality you can get at the least expensive (except in some limited cases where companies seek out certain skills and will pay for that). The question, here, is how quality is determined. Historically, it is split into two groups: top tier schools and lower tier schools. Within each group, you’ll see remarkably similar salaries with possibly some location adjustment (though not as much as you’d expect). Within a bracket you’ll primarily see variation in the number of offers/student.</p>
<p>That said, if you want to earn the most money from an engineering degree, you don’t practice engineering - you go in i-banking or strategy consulting. The i-banks and strategy firms won’t hire from FSU or Auburn (or UF or UCF, etc). They hire from the very top schools.</p>
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I’d speculate that firms recognize UF engineering before FSU engineering as UF’s engineering program is much older than the program FSU shares with FAMU. Indeed, UF’s program dates from 1910 while the FSU/FAMU program started in 1982. Longevity carries weight in some instances. Engineering, as far as I can tell, is a very conservative almost OCD-oriented business (an engineer would correct me and say it should be CDO - ha). Such a perspective works when building machines or complex structures. Therefore longevity equals safety, and safety can equate to a reasonable return. UCF is popular engineering-wise simply because it is close to the Space Coast in Florida. Otherwise UCF resembles a very large junior college, with something like a 30 to 1 student-to-faculty ratio. FSU and UF have a nearly equal student-to-faculty ratio.</p>
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Except for Warren Buffett…he seems to like FSU grads:
[Buffett</a> picks Floridian successor: Sarasota sage succeeds Omaha oracle? | Tampa Bay business news blog: Venture | tampabay.com & St. Petersburg Times](<a href=“http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/venturebiz/content/buffett-picks-floridian-successor-sarasota-sage-succeeds-omaha-oracle]Buffett”>http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/venturebiz/content/buffett-picks-floridian-successor-sarasota-sage-succeeds-omaha-oracle)</p>
<p>Of course, Combs did also attend Columbia for an MBA.</p>
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<p>Companies prefer UF over FSU because of the age of the program? That’s beyond a reach - that’s just an embarrassing statement. </p>
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<p>An FSU grad. You can’t extrapolate from one data point to an entire university. But, then again, in a world where the age of engineering school matters, who knows…</p>
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Quite all right. Don’t be embarrassed because you didn’t think of it.</p>
<p>Very simple concepts - time, money and location. Time and money for UF, because why on earth would anyone want to locate anything in Gainesville, which is at best a rural backwater in history and today. Location and money for UCF as I suggested earlier. This economic concept works for many universities. For example, why doesn’t Hawaii have a Harvard? Why is Harvard located around one of the older cities in the US? Why is it that many of the best schools are located in areas populated first?</p>
<p>I’d guess macro decisions influence succeeding micro decisions, even if those making the decisions don’t recognize the totality of their choice.</p>
<p>Correct - Warren Buffett selected one FSU grad to date. But look who chose and who likely applied. Unusual success can be quite unusual.</p>