<p>Basically this is my personal rant about how I don't think people should get Full-Ride, Need-Based Scholarships, especially at top and/or private institutions. I seriously think that either I am missing some crucial principle or the system is just quite negligent of the middle class.</p>
<p>My parents' gross income is right around $130K/year. I was recently accepted to Duke and WashU. Duke's financial package totaled $13K (including loans) and WashU's totaled $6.5K (including loans). This is leaving me with a bout a $38K-$45K cost....whaaaaat? (That's about 30% of their gross income...not to mention their net salary...that skyrockets to over 45%!)</p>
<p>My parents can actually afford about $10K-$12K/year as the do have two other children at home to support. That means I'm ending up with about $100,000 in loans if I choose to attend one of these top-notch institutions. Gah. I'm anticipating taking out loans, but...let's be reasonable here.</p>
<p>What I want to know is why all these people making under $60,000 or lower are getting full-rides. Can't they take out and pay back loans just the same as everyone else? I saw another thread earlier about this kid whose parents make just over $50K and he was complaining about like an $15K total loan (that's for all four years). I just want to say...Dang...You're lucky. Don't complain.</p>
<p>So...am I missing something or is the FinAid system just inherently flawed?</p>
<p>Im in the same boat. Cornell is giving me a 3K LOAN and so is Duke. I have absolutely no good choice at this point. my brother just graduated from Cornell and we exhausted all our savings for him to not have any loans cause they are a pain in the butt. </p>
<p>If i go to either school at this point, I will have 100K+ loans for the rest of my life. UGH. this is so terrible. i hate being stuck in this middle zone. (btw my family combined income is like 160K. we can probably afford 20K-30K a year)</p>
<p>I am applying for appeals and stuff right now but honestly, I dont think im going to get anywhere unless a miracle happens. Anyone have any success stories?????</p>
<p>well, I'm just going to first say that I'm biased because I'm benefiting from those policies. However, I think you could make the same case about URM's and affirmative action. Why is it fair that race is a factor in admissions? Historically, minority groups have not been offered the same opportunities. As a result, there are programs out there that are designed to give them a "launching pad." I know it seems unfair to you, if you look at it case by case individually. However, if you look at the overall picture, these policies greatly help kids who are the first in the family to attend college, who are just as capable as you but might not attend college because of financial constraints. By offering a student the incentive to get a great education, colleges hope that these minorities will soon become the majority. I understand the argument about giving them loans as well, but are you really expecting colleges to transfer those extra funds over to help out middle class families? They would just keep it and earn interests. If they feel like you're capable of paying the EFC, they're not going to give you more money even if they have extra left. They'll use that to develop their school programs or something.</p>
<p>People are supposed to SAVE for college. My family income has always been around 15-20 k per year. My parents have saved about $10k for me over the years. Now a family with a combined income of >160k should've saved a lot more for college. It seems pretty reasonable to me. Think about it, a year's tuition at a top private for us adds up to 50k, which is what we make in 3 years. You make in one year enough to cover three years of college. Don't complain.</p>
<p>i realize that its tough if you are in the middle zone ( if u can call it that 100k+ is way more then your average family makes) however, think about it this way. If your family makes 130K and can only afford 10-12k a year. that means they they need 120k a year for other expenses, which is a lot of money, even with 2 kids.</p>
<p>i realize that its tough if you are in the middle zone ( if u can call it that 100k+ is way more then your average person makes). Do you really think life would be easier for your family if they made 50K a year and you got a full ride to school? even if you got 0 finaid. 130k-50k=80k. that is still 80k a year they have(not including taxes) for expenses. Now obviously im not saying that would be possible for them to do but still, you cant get mad at lower income families for getting full rides to school.</p>
<p>i think its just hard for middle class people because they need to change their standard of living if they pay for the majority of the college costs, but it doesn't mean u should give less aid to really needy people.</p>
<p>The financial aid system is not flawed--it is quite generous, especially at schools like Duke. It is interesting that many of the posts upset with financial aid offers rarely share asset information. If you were accomplished enough to get into Duke & WashUStL, then you were accomplished enough to get scholarship offers from state universities and less prestigious schools. In my opinion, full tuition & full ride need based scholarships are admirable and worthy of praise. Some families place a higher priority on education than do others; and they are willing to sacrifice their quality of life for a quality education.</p>
<p>There are definitely flaws in the financial aid system. However,</p>
<p>1) Parents have the responsibility to contribute to their children's education. A main problem is that many Americans live beyond their means and view luxuries as necessities. A few less vacations, less expensive cars, a more modest home, more modest belongings can result in substantial savings. (Of course a family that makes $140k per year should be able to save more than a family that makes $40k per year. In fact, a family making $40k probably would not be able to save much, if anything, at all. These lower income families are the ones financial aid is meant to assist.)</p>
<p>2) Students have the responsibility to contribute to their education. I personally do not believe students should necessarily work during the school year, but definitely believe they should during the summers. If an individual begins working, even minimally, at the minimum legal age, he/she should be able to accumulate some savings to contribute towards education.</p>
<p>3) Students need to understand that, although they are entitled to the opportunity of a college education, they are not entitled to attend the best school to which they can gain admission. If they come from families that should have had the capability to save for education and did not, it is not the responsibility of the financial aid system to pay for them.</p>
<p>4) Students need to be proactive. They need to have schools on their list that they can afford in the event they do not receive the aid package they need to attend their choice institution. They need to spend time researching scholarships and applying. It is work, but it is part of earning one's education.</p>
<p>If you want a full ride, you can go to state/public schools or "third" or "fourth" tier schools. Are you willing to do that ? I got my merit scholarships( full ride almost) because my SAT scores were in the top 1% of the school and combined with community service award. But those schools don't even have threads in CC. You will be poo poohing when I say their names. Because you guys want prestige. But I like those schools as I did my research.
I am low-income, I still got horrendous financial aid last year at some top schools like Drexel and Case, couldn't afford to go anywhere. And I missed merit scholarship deadlines at public schools. So I took a year off and worked to save money. For lower income kids, just to scrape a 1000 mean hours standing on your feet after school.
And those top schools don't even want to touch many lower income kids with good grades, sometimes way much better than those who got in. Suddenly some of the need-blind seem to become need-aware.</p>
<p>I understand what your saying though. Just because my parents have the money, why do colleges just assume that they are giving it all to me> i have no control over their assets.</p>
<p>
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I understand what your saying though. Just because my parents have the money, why do colleges just assume that they are giving it all to me> i have no control over their assets.
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</p>
<p>If your parents will not assume the responsibility for your education, why should anyone else? Why should others: taxpayers/donors be willing to pay for your education when your parents are not?</p>
<p>$130,000 a year is about 2 1/2 times the average family income in the United States. Remember that colleges assume you will use current income (salary and assets), past income (savings) and future income (loans) to pay for college.</p>
<p>for heaven's sake, i understand that you are frustrated, but quite honestly, the kids who benefit from the low-income/ need based policies have NOT had the same privileges that you and other middle class people have. i don't have an iPod. i don't go on vacations to the bahamas, or cruises to Mexico. i don't have the money to do summer college programs that i long to do, or have the money to waste on new clothes, despite loving shopping. My family stopped the cable service for our TV because it was too expensive. I don't get to vist colleges that i want to go to because our family can't afford to drive/ fly there and stay at hotels. I'm sorry that you have to suffer loans nad such, but you have had so many opportunities that other people haven't had that it just sounds selfish when you start questioning wether or not the Finanical Aid system is flawed because your family didn't save enough for college.</p>
<p>"or heaven's sake, i understand that you are frustrated, but quite honestly, the kids who benefit from the low-income/ need based policies have NOT had the same privileges that you and other middle class people have. i don't have an iPod. i don't go on vacations to the bahamas, or cruises to Mexico. i don't have the money to do summer college programs that i long to do, or have the money to waste on new clothes, despite loving shopping. My family stopped the cable service for our TV because it was too expensive. I don't get to visit colleges that i want to go to because our family can't afford to drive/ fly there and stay at hotels. I'm sorry that you have to suffer loans and such, but you have had so many opportunities that other people haven't had that it just sounds selfish when you start questioning whether or not the Finanical Aid system is flawed because your family didn't save enough for college."</p>
<p>This is exactly correct.</p>
<p>Why do you think that people whose families make less than $60,000 a year should not get full rides? Because you're upset because you have to take out larger loans to go to school? Way to be selfish.</p>
<p>Negligent of the middle-class? Honey, the society we live in CATERS to the upper-middle class, which is what you are. Universities are trying to give those historically disadvantaged a chance to get the same opportunities that you and the rest of the upper-middle-class can afford. That's not a flaw in the system, it's called compensation. Most of those student are expected to take out the same amount of personal loans as you; it's the parental loans that they can't afford, because their parents don't make enough money to pay it back.</p>
<p>You do have an option, though. I got into a top-tier university with bad financial aid and a second-tier university with very, very good financial aid. I chose the second-tier school. It's still well regarded -- no Ivy, but no slouch either -- and did very well here, and am now headed to a top-tier school in my field (a school I would've chosen for undergrad, could I afford it). So your choices are -- go to an expensive, prestigious university and pay top dollar, or go to a slightly less-highly ranked school and pay less money, graduate with less debt, and have less to pay back. The choice is yours.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the great replies! A couple responses:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I kind of like the comparison to affirmative action.</p></li>
<li><p>Someone said that if my parents are making $130K and can only afford 10K for college then they're spending 120K on other things. That's not really true. Their net income (what they can actually spend) is only about 75K. Take away 10K from that, that's what they're left with.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm not trying to be selfish really. I think that low income students should get great financial aid packages, much better than mine. However, I think every family and every student should be able to contribute what they can. It's kind of like the Medicaid system in America: everything is free and it creates a great sense of entitlement to its recipients. Now when Medicaid benefits have changed and the people on the program are asked to pay $1 for a service that everyone else pays $40-$60 for, they become defensive, indignant, and unwilling to pay. I believe as long as the middle and high income families have financial burdens put on them, even the lowest income students should have some sort of financial accountability. When I see someone complaining over $2K/year for a top 10 institution, I just feel like the sense of entitlement to low-income college admits is becoming substantial.</p></li>
<li><p>Some people mentioned the savings thing. I understand that parents are supposed to save for college and mine have to an extent. However, on of the problems we are facing is that the EFC doesn't take into account any previous earnings. Five years ago my parents were making 25% less than they are now. Ten years ago, 50% less than they are now. So, even though they have saved, they haven't been able to save on their current income for very long.</p></li>
<li><p>It seems in this thread that it seems to be me and the first responder against the world. However, most of the kids in my current senior class are being admitted to WashU, Dartmouth, and other great colleges around the country and are having to go to a mediocre state school instead, because they can't afford it. On the other hand, one of our low-income students last year was able to accept his admit to Harvard in a heartbeat because his family made less than 60K/year. You can blame and point fingers all you want but the fact is that more middle class students have to turn down great colleges because of finances than anyone else. Because of this, I believe it is fair to say that we are the ones most neglected by college FinAid.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Finally, no one has really answered the question: can't they pay back loans just like everyone else? I know I am going to have to take out loans, probably over 50K, and I'm fine with that up to a point. But, is it not true that middle-income students have the highest debt after graduation and are left with the same college degree to repay it? That's what seems least fair to me.</p>
<p>One last point...I believe that Harvard is on my side. They're beginning to realize how hard it is for middle-income families so they've limited tuition to 10% of families' gross income under 180K. Hm...seems like that's just about what I can pay. I think most universities are realizing this same thing but are simply neglected to do anything about it because it could quickly diminish their endowments.</p>
<p>p<em>hp</em>fan, I don't know about every kind of need-based aid, but just for sake of reference, I can tell you about our situation. My son was accepted to a very generous need-based-aid-only LAC. They are also one of the schools that's dropped student loans as part of their financial aid packages. Our family income is somewhere around 57K gross. I don't know what net income after taxes is, but of course it's quite a bit lower. The financial aid package we got is wonderful because it makes going to the school affordable for us -- which is not to say it's free. We have a parental contribution we're expected to make, but it won't be easy to come up with and we'll probably have to borrow some to meet it. My son will have to work summers, of course, and do work-study during the school year. It's true he won't have to take out loans (I hope), but the school is no-loans for <em>all</em> students getting financial aid, low income and middle income.</p>
<p>So as for your question about why can't the lower income students take out loans like middle income kids, I guess I'd have to say that's a complaint to take to a specific college that structures their aid this way. If such a discrepancy seems unfair, then there are other schools that offer no-loans for everyone receiving FA, and likewise schools that makes loans a part of everyone's FA award. On balance, I'd say if you look at college students across the country including in public u's, you'll see the lower income kids graduate with the most debt and probably take the longest to pay it off.</p>