<p>Well…. Sad night for us. D received the FA letter today. Nowhere near enough. After Pell and federal loans, would still have to come up with $33k per year. That is out of our reach. D has 3.75 unweighted gpa, ACT 33, 6 AP, and good ECs.</p>
<p>TNdad - looks like our Ds received the same offer and had similar stats. $33,000 a year is crazy money for us. The most we have every spent on an auto is $16,500 and they think we can come up with $132,000 over 4 years?</p>
<p>NEmom - I think our EFC was around $50K. We were told we wouldn’t qualify for anything, but we did qualify for the $2,340 “SC Tuition Grant”. Furman included that we were eligible for a $5,500 ‘federal unsubsidized loan’, but going into massive debt to pay for college doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Contrast the Furman offer with our offer from the University of South Carolina.<br>
Furman - $52,570 total cost - $20,040 scholarships = $32,530
USC - $19,310 total cost - $9,700 scholarships = $9,610</p>
<p>We also have a few outside scholarships possibilities (likely small amounts). My D really liked Furman and felt it would have been a good fit for her</p>
<p>sigh. feeling for you all. Furman is a great education for a lifetime. We did full private pay…no aid for eldest son but he started college in 2005 when the economy was not in a major recession and we felt much more optimistic than we do today re our means.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I could have written this. After Pell and fed loans they want us to come up with 33K per year too (in addition to the federal loans). I doubt we would even qualify for it. My guy had a 34 on the ACT, 1 AP, and 3 cc As as well as ECs, etc. Contrast that with the University of Rochester who is only expecting us to come up with 4K out of pocket (and 7K in his loans).</p>
<p>Even if we could pay 33K out of pocket, I wouldn’t with our other options (everywhere else is financially better than Furman at the moment - even without getting some need based financial packages in yet - merit aid makes them less expensive).</p>
<p>Furman was a contender for my guy. He loved his visit there and had (what he thought) was a great alumni interview, but such is life.</p>
<p>Fortunately, he’s ok with going wherever is best affordable and I’m thinking a research U might be his better spot anyway (my thoughts - it would have been his choice had finances been comparable).</p>
<p>Hearing these stories makes me wonder how Furman is doing financially to be honest.</p>
<p>D has other terrific options (some are full rides). FU was her first choice though, so I am very sad for her. She seems ok with it. Her FAFSA EFC is under 2000. I went back to check for errors on the css profile and found none… sigh. I just can’t go $100k in debt for a BS. That is crazy.</p>
<p>I wish I had understood this better when we were looking at schools last year.</p>
<p>We are in the very same boat. My daughter received the same email you did. She also received the financial letter on Saturday with the 11,000 leadership scholarship then a work study and lots of loans. We are from out of state and therefore not eligible for the Palmetto and other SC aide. She applied for all of the large scholarships as well as a teaching scholarship. Furman is now off the list for us too.</p>
<p>Here is the link to Furman’s most recent financial statements:</p>
<p><a href=“Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC”>Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC;
<p>Creekland,</p>
<p>You are wondering how Furman is doing financially based on the fact that your son was not awarded enough money? They had over 6,000 applicants this year, a huge increase over last year. There is only so much scholarship money to go around, despite how strong someones credentials are.</p>
<p>The University of Rochester is an outstanding institution and the fact that your son can go there for such little expense is very good news.</p>
<p>We got our FA package today. Same as everyone else $11k leadership, loans and work study. I was surprised but after reading the link in the Furman Scholarship thread (posted by mommamocha) I can better understand their “new” philosophy, not that I agree with it. This one is off our list even though it was a top choice yesterday. It seems that all top scoring candidates received the exact same package regardless of financial need. Would this boost the stats of “accepted” students? Would this benefit them somehow in the rankings? So very disappointing. It will be interesting to see the outcome - do you suppose there be a lot of wait list activity?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Based upon one student (mine or otherwise)? No. Based upon the trend we are seeing here with multiple high stat students in the same boat? Yes.</p>
<p>Furman doesn’t promise to meet need anyway, but one generally expects top stat kids to have more pull in their favor, esp top stat kids from a ‘different’ geographical location. It’s been that way with 4 other schools kiddo has applied to (one yet to hear from) and many more we’ve heard about. I work in a public high school and hear many stats and stories from students each year. In general, the higher the stats, the more need is met even with schools who don’t traditionally meet need. Furman is an exception that has surprised many in our guidance office with the huge disparity.</p>
<p>The nice consolation of this thread is that if I hadn’t read about many others in the same boat I’d have been concerned with what he did wrong on his application. Now I have a feeling he did nothing wrong. He just wasn’t truly one they wanted (or could afford) in their freshman class (along with the rest of us posting here). </p>
<p>I’m ok with that. So is he. I’ve spread the word about our [collective] situation and, while still recommending Furman, definitely recommending one apply to other places as well if financial need is a reality. (That was a general recommendation I gave before - I can use a specific example now - showing the disparity of college offers for the same student. 
)</p>
<p>Furman is a good school. They just want (or financially need) a wealthier demographic. I have no issues with that. They’re a private school and can do as they wish. We’ll be financially responsible and pick a school that fits (and wants) my guy more.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I just read the link, and you’re correct, it is more understandable now. I’ve updated the info here so people know if they aren’t in a demographic where the school would be affordable with little aid to not bother applying. Had I read that info before last year we’d have saved the effort and time as my preference (philosophically) is for need-blind (or close to it) schools. To each our own.</p>
<p>I will add, with respect to the article, everything else seems correct. They did do a personalized visit and my guy loved his alumni interview, etc. They sold themselves well and should do well with the demographic they are trying to reach. We just aren’t in a position to afford the school, (nor would I at this point even if we could afford it).</p>
<p>Wow. Thank you to Momma for posting the link. Furman’s mission is pretty clear. My has son applied to transfer to Furman for their music program. He had a good audition and the faculty seemed very interested. Like the poster above indicates, they did a great job of engaging potential students. Sadly, he has fallen in love with Furman. I wish I had known about the direction they were taking with finances. </p>
<p>My son is currently at another respected but not as highly “ranked” tier one LAC. His current school has a slightly higher endowment than Furman but I don’t think has the same demographic objective as Furman. With scholarships alone, we are spending about 18K a year. This is not any higher than what our state flagship, UNC would cost with all costs added in. I naively was assuming we would pay a little more for Furman but not the amounts being posted!</p>
<p>My daughter attends Grinnell. Grinnell is need blind in admissions and caps student loans at 8K. She enjoyed a great financial package there but has noted that there seem to be more wealthier students in the classes below her (she’s a senior) than her class. She speculates that these wealthier students are going for the early decision options. The school has acknowledged that it is recruiting more intensively for internationals and at east coast schools. The economic situation of the country has really changed college finances.</p>
<p>With the economic situation as it is, I think all private colleges are looking at ways to protect their endowments. What this means is fewer middle class students being able to attend LACs. It is unfortunate, the education my kids have gotten is amazing. I guess my son will be staying where he is!</p>
<p>the Furman music department has access to some scholarship funds, so wait it out till you are presented with the costs.<br>
Grinnell’s need blind abilities are amazing for a school of its size. And generating a heated interest in applications from internationals as well as from all families wishing to avoid being burdened by outsized loans.</p>
<p>Thanks for the support, faline2. The admissions counselor implied that music runs things a little differently from the rest of the school. One of the faculty openly talked about offering our son money but did not say how much. We will wait for the letter in April.</p>
<p>Grinnell is an interesting situation. At one point (10 years ago) they had the highest endowment of any LAC. Warren Buffet was on their board! The endowment took a huge hit in 2008 and that has changed a number of the perks (foods, dining hall hours, special student workshops, travel). It is still a great place, though and my daughter is starting to grieve leaving.</p>
<p>Furman’s music department for two years would be worth some increase in costs in my view, although the balance is completely up to you when you face that balance sheet. My roommate went straight to Northwestern and to Columbia for her PhD from there and earned a good living conducting and teaching at college and high school levels. She is also a performer and now the head of a major music festival. Furman professors gave her tremendous training and more importantly the backbone which was needed once she hit Chicago and NYC. Also Furman’s ties to the Brevard summer music festivals are long and meaningful which could be interesting. I do think that one of Furman’s hidden assets is the exceptional professor support when you apply to graduate schools.</p>
<p>I’m really sad to see kids with great stats who would be a good addition not get enough money to attend Furman, but I really don’t think it is accurate to portray Furman as being different or stingier than a lot of private, competitive LACs. My youngest daughter, who is a freshman at Furman, also applied to & was accepted at Emory and Wake Forest. Both of these schools state they meet %100 percent of demonstrated (demonstrated is underlined & bold print on WFU site) need. Our EFC last year was $35,000, but that is not in reality what we could come up with and not have to sell our home or jeopardize our retirement. Both Wake & Emory did come up with offers for the other $20,000, but it was mostly in loans, so in actuality, neither school was affordable. Wake Forest even states at the top of the financial aid page that it is primarily the responsibility of the student and parents to finance college costs (which of course it is, but the average person really can’t finance a $55,000 per year education), and less than 3% of freshman get merit based scholarships. My D did get the Hollingsworth and SC scholarships which did make Furman affordable, so that’s why she is there.</p>
<p>I too am a public high school teacher, and I lament that unless one of my students gets a top academic scholarship, Furman is not affordable for them. But in today’s economy, for my students, pretty much only state universities are affordable without sizeable scholarships, and not all students thrive at a university with 20,000 students. The high cost of private LACs definitely decreases the socioeconomic diversity of the student body.</p>
<p>Hornet - thanks for the heads up to Momma’s link. Here it is again for easy access. The article is on page 16.</p>
<p><a href=“Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC”>Furman University | Top Private Liberal Arts University in Greenville, SC;
<p>The article is certainly eye opening. “In the past we have spent a lot of money to attract students with the highest scores… We are not doing that anymore…”</p>
<p>One reason why Furman was on my D’s list was that we percieved Furman to be a top notch school based on the average SAT score (range) of incoming Freshman. Based on the statement above and Furman’s “score blind” admissions, I can see the average SAT dropping at Furman. It sounds like from the Furman threads that several high scoring students had to take Furman off the list due to money.</p>
<p>It appears that Furman wants primarily wants students with a huge amount of disposable income or those who qualify for a sizable amount of ‘need based’ aid. This maybe a good financial strategy for them, but it doesn’t help middle class families with top performing students.</p>
<p>Collins-your suggestion about providing for the talented young person with no means and those that can finance themselves seems to be what many LACs are doing. At least, that is what my daughter sees at her school (as noted by her remark about the decrease in the number of middle class students at her LAC). It makes sense and from my little part of the world (blue heaven), there has been an increase in bright middle class kids going into the state schools since the recession hit.</p>
<p>As heldreth pointed out, the majority of middle class kids do go to the state schools (flagship if they are top students). Our top state school, UNC, is a good school. However, in order succeed in such a large school, a student has to be very proactive.</p>
<p>Both of my kids are quiet and have benefited from the attention at the LACs they go to. For my daughter, she has been completely transformed by the experience. I attended UNC a long time ago and, when I got to grad school, had never really participated in class discussion. The mentor relationships I formed were mostly with TA’s (but they were wonderful in helping me). Contrasting this is my daughter’s experience. She has been researching since her sophomore year, has attended national conferences and has made much deeper, closer relationships with classmates than I did (but that could be the result of her school being in a cornfield in the middle of nowhere-hah). These things can happen at a state school as well but the young person has to work a little harder to get it. Maybe that is a good thing. I am sometimes amazed by the lack of resourcefulness on practical issues that my kids have!</p>
<p>I apologize if my remarks have seemed disparaging of Furman. I am not a high school teacher (I teach at a state school) so I don’t see things as intimately as one directly involved does. My remarks were meant to say “yes, most LACs are dealing with finances which result in fewer middle class admissions”.
I do not think the change will hurt Furman’s student population in any way. There are a lot of wealthy, well-prepared kids out there looking for a great college experience. Furman is certainly that and I hope things work out for my son. If not, he is in a good place.</p>
<p>My daughter, like many of you, received her FA award letter yesterday with the exact same packages, “leadership” award and the rest of her package in “loans”. I do NOT consider Loans to be financial aid, as you need to pay it back. I was shocked at how little Aid was offered. We are from New England, which I thought was the new target area for Furman. My daughter has excellent stats and due to a change in family situation and economy, we have a very little EFC. This is my oldest child so I am new to how all of this works but I was very misinformed with how “generous” Furman was going to be. I was under the assumption that they would be much more forthcoming with FA. I ask this of all my fellow posters with more experience with this process: Is a Furman education worth it? We will need to come up with $33,0000 per year (and loans on top of that). Many other schools that my D was accepted to came thru with much more Merit Aid. In this economy does it make sense to spend over $125,000 for college (and then don’t forget grad school). I know very little about Furman, as I am from New England and have many wonderful schools in my backyard (Middlebury, Dartmouth, BC). but my daughter insisted on going to the South and fell in love with Furman, Richmond, etc. I just am so overwhelmed with all of this college stuff that I would like someone to explain to me what makes Furman worth it? I know that it is a very difficult question to answer with many different scenarios but as I sit at my desk this morning looking at the FA award letter, that is the question that keeps popping into my mind. What makes this school better then the school that will cost us 1/2 of what Furman is asking? In the long run, is there really that big of a difference? Does anyone know anything about Rollins college in Winter Park FL? my daughter was offered an almost full ride scholarship there… Thank you so much for any advice and guidance that you are about to give me. Also, has anyone appealed the FA package? with any luck?</p>
<p>Very disappointed in finaid package awarded also.
My child received a similar finaid package as other people have mentioned here - leaving us with 37k cost to attend. Given that our FAFSA EFC is 13k, and we’re not sure how to cover that amount, sadly it’s an easy decision to go elsewhere.</p>