future Ivy League law students still in High School

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I know that I have wanted to attend Harvard Law for as long as I can possibly remember and I also know that I want to pursue a career in International Law/Corporate, preferably with Sino-Soviet relations, etc. (I plan to double major in Russian/Slavic Studies and Philosophy, maybe minor in Public Policy)</p>

<p>I am currently a senior, and though I am applying to several Ivies and top tiers, I was curious as to how much I can do right now. Having many friends in Ivy league undergrad/law/business I know that GPA is of course top priority, but I was thinking aside from that.</p>

<p>For example, a lot of us (currently high school seniors) that were set on top tiers schools began to prepare in 8th grade/9th grade with SAT and making great grades. I figure perhaps, even if it seems a bit paranoid and I am sure people will say just enjoy undergrad :) --which I fully plan on--I still think it's okay for me to be looking at everything as one big solid picture. I understand that not everyone has my perspective and that's awesome :) but I know beginning PSAT/SAT/ACT prep in 7th and 8th grade really aided me in these final years, less stress, less preparing, more focus on applications and polishing my resume.</p>

<p>In any case I was curious, and would love, to hear from anyone who is either applying or attending Ivy Law Schools/top tiers, and what their experience has been, especially in retrospect. You know, if you could have done anything in undergrad or HS to prepare what would it be, etc, and any other tips that you can give me.</p>

<p>I know that maybe in the long run I could fall in love with a different law school (Vandy is my first choice for undergrad) and that's okay :) --I would just love to just prepare in general for law school :), whatever knowledge I can have I will greatly appreciate.</p>

<p>Thank you so much :)</p>

2

<p>personally, i would strongly recommend you get off the merry go round of constantly worrying about grabbing for the next brass ring.</p>

<p>you've been planning since 8th grade how to get into a top college? now you want to start planning how to get in to one the top 2 or 3 law schools in the country (i'm not narrowing it down beyond that to avoid any yale or stanford arguments ;) ) what next? by sophomore year of college, start planning how to get an associateship at a top wall street firm? why at this rate, i bet you can have it all figured out by first year of law school how to make partner at that firm.</p>

<p>there will always be some ultimate goal to strive for -- to be the best of the best. out of the top high school students, you want to be able to go to the top college. out of the top college students, you want to be able to go to a top law school, etc. etc. and as you go up the chain, more and more of those people who were the best and brightest in high school will end up falling by the wayside -- because they all just can't keep being the best among the best. and along the way, if all you focus on is trying to keep yourself in the ever narrowing pool of the "best of the best" you can easily loose sight of the fact that one can have a perfectly happy fulfilling life if one doesnt' keep grabbing that next brass ring.</p>

<p>and why do you want to go to harvard? just because its harvard? do you know anything about how its law school compares with yale or stanford or any of the other T14 (top 14) for that matter? do you even know if the specialty you want (assuming you are even still interested in that years from now) might be better seved at another law school? i'm not knocking harvard -- but i really think a fixation on harvard law school before you have even set foot in your first college classroom is more than a little premature.</p>

<p>law school admissions is highly competitive. i suggest you not fall in love with any one school.</p>

3

<p>The problem with spending all your time planning that far ahead into the future is that when you get to be my age, if you're still following that plan, you get to think a lot about being dead.</p>

4

<p>Not to mention Harvard HIGHLY suggests that J.D. applicants take time off after their undergrad before applying.</p>

5

<p>It's good to dream when you are young. I think that some of the adults on this thread are being a little harsh. Nonetheless, I sympathize when I read your message because it doesn't "sound" as if you know what you are "talking" about. </p>

<p>Do you know what "Sino-Soviet relations" are? The term refers to dealings between China and the former Soviet Union. It's an outdated term; just the use of it suggests you don't know what you are saying. Please explain why you think you can find a position in "corporate law" which involves the relationship between China and Russia. If you are an American, please explain why you expect to have any involvement at all in "Sino-Soviet relations." </p>

<p>Before spending any time and energy figuring out how to get into Harvard Law School, figure out whether you want to be an attorney. In order to do that, you need to understand what it is that attorneys do. Reading your message, I seriously doubt that you have much understanding of the job. ( I am confident that there aren't a heck of a lot of corporate lawyers who get paid for doing anything at all remotely related to Sino-Russian relations. )</p>

<p>In the short term, why do you think you want to double major in Slavic Studies and philosophy? Have you ever taken a philosophy course? I think a conservative estimate would be that 75% of the high school students I've met who say they want to major in philosophy really want to major in political science. They are thinking in terms of what they regard as "political philosophy," which at most universities falls within the poli sci department. </p>

<p>The idea that you are going to double major in Slavic Studies and philosophy and perhaps minor in public policy also suggests that you are just engaging in "pie in the sky" thinking. Now, there may be someone out there who can do what you propose, but it would be extremely difficult. Have you checked out Vandy's course catalog to find out whether you can fullfill the requirements for both majors and any other distribution or general ed requirements and graduate in 4 years--or at least close to it? Have you at least taken a good look at the courses you would be expected to take and made sure that you would want to take those courses? </p>

<p>It's good to have long term dreams, but you need to make sure that you have investigated those dreams enough to have some sense of what those dreams involve. You remind me of a young woman I interviewed for college some years ago--I'm an alum interviewer. She told me she wanted to be a "pro bono" attorney. Okay--I asked what cause or organization she wanted to work for. She hadn't a clue. She was just sure she wanted to be a "pro bono" attorney. She too had it backwards---if you find a cause you believe in, you can be a lawyer for that cause. </p>

<p>So, I'm sorry if I've bashed you too much...but really, spend some time figuring out what it is that lawyers do before you start trying to build a resume for law school. You may found that having a law degree won't help you do what it is you really want to do.</p>

6

<p>Why so many smileys?? :(</p>

7

<p>I fully understand and truly appreciate what all of you guys were trying to say and I wholeheartedly appreciate it. CC has never let me down as far as things are on opinions, even if it is harsh…and I know I am lacking a ton of experience, in life and in college and getting insight from older and people “who have been there and done that” is exactly what I wanted! I completely understand trying not to worry too much about being the best, but honestly it’s not even about that, I think it’s more about me wanting to be prepared in the best way for what I hope to accomplish. I promise you I am not one of those kids with overtly obsessive parents that wish to send me to HARVARD HARVARD HARVARD (not that there is anything wrong with that). I highly doubt my parents even know where I want to go to college, if they even know anything at all about my plans. My schooling has always been away from them, so it’s really nothing to do with the way they raised me but more with the way my schooling has been structured. I do appreciate every stage of schooling I have had and cannot wait to begin my undergraduate one, but like I said I’d like to at least know what I need to be thinking of and for.</p>

<p>First and foremost, thank you for taking time to reply. Secondly I would have to explain that though Harvard is my dream school, anywhere really that is highly ranked would be okay with me. Though I have heard that alumni connections and other networking opportunities given at Ivies are invaluable, especially in a field where finding a great place to work is key. It’s totally okay though that I will probably change my mind about school, there is no doubt law school is where I belong, even if I turn to politics rather than a law firm.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I am sorry for using the term “Sino-soviet,” I do understand it is outdated. The trouble I guess is trying to explain exactly what I mean by my major and why in the world would I want to study Russian (which I get a lot of weird looks for). In my Euro History class the professor kept on using the term and since EVERYONE takes that class, I began using it soon after—I guess now I just assume the whole world knows what exactly I meant by that, though it has made it easier to explain to kids my age what I wish to become. I hope that makes it a little easier to understand why I used that exact term. I guess the looser meaning of the idea, for someone who didn´t take that class is essentially is that I love international affairs, between the Russians (or of them) and the Chinese (or of them). I am NOT American, though all of my high school schooling was completed here. I have been raised in different international schools, British primarily for most of my “primary years” but we have moved all over the place. I hold citizenship from a country in South America however, my family is in business worldwide, etc. <strong><em>The slash which included corporate was just saying how I would perhaps like corporate law as well, an other option ASIDE from International Law, not the two being together</em></strong></p>

<p>My school has also a format, unusual for HS, that allows a student to center their education with a focus on "something". My something was/is philosophy, not just political, but straight up Hegel, Kierkegaard, Locke, Rand, Rousseau, Sartre, Pascal, Plato, etc. So I assure you that I do know what I mean by declaring a philosophy major. Furthermore, I have checked with Vandy and they say that if I plan to commit to something like summer study, and studying abroad, it is feasible. Though I highly question a double major and minor, and it will probably just become a double major or a major and a concentration.</p>

<p>In any case, I like the Russian side of it mostly, and I do see myself working with the UN in that arena. Even if not with the Russians, I know International Law is where I belong. I have traveled far too much for anything else to really interest me. I know that though my idea of what I ultimately wish to do will probably change, I am realistic about that, but I know that it won’t change out of the main category of Law and its effect on International Relations between countries.</p>

<p>So I guess my point was more or less, that even things that sound “harsh” which I know aren’t intentionally meant that way, help me to know what I need to keep in perspective regarding how my undergrad years will affect my entrance to law school.</p>

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<p>It is great to plan ahead, but don't let it cloud your view of the present. Those who spend all their time worrying about and planning for the future will almost always miss out on the joys of the present. Sure, plan ahead and make good decisions, make them with the long-run in mind. But live in the moment. Don't say that everything is with the goal of getting into Harvard Law School. Do everything with the goal of doing the best you can on any given day, at any given time. If you live for the moment and always try your hardest, the long-term results will surely come. You sound like a bright kid, and I have no doubt that you will be successful in whatever you do. Just try your best and let things take you wherever they may go.</p>

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<p>lilmiss- why no Nietzsche?!!!!!!</p>

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<p>"ilmiss- why no Nietzsche?!!!!!!"</p>

<p>This is just my theory, but I'll present it: Nietzsche is for people who get easily excited.</p>

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<p>I am sure you know nothing about Nietzsche; great theory!</p>

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<p>"Not to mention Harvard HIGHLY suggests that J.D. applicants take time off after their undergrad before applying."</p>

<p>Lol. Funny, I never heard that piece of advice when I was applying.</p>

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<p>did you get in?</p>

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<p>Toby Stock did indeed give me good news last December. I'm deferring enrollment until next year. In fact, HLS very highly encourages admitted applicants to defer for a year or two before enrolling, as evidenced by the incredibly simple process of applying for a deferment (you literally just have to send in one extra sheet of paper with the enrollment deposit with a reason no better than you want to spend a year reading comic books in your mother's basement). Perhaps you confused HLS's deferment policy with the idea that HLS encourages applicants to take a year or two off before applying.</p>

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<p>good luck It sounds like you're really driven, so go for it!</p>

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<p>crnchycereal, yeah I did, thanks for clearing it up...that's AMAZING; can I ask how you did on your LSAT? Also, any study tips? I plan on taking mine in a little over a year. I did my first practice test and scored a 170, but didn't time myself. (pointless, I know.) lol</p>

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<p>Transferkid, I actually scored a 180 on the September 2007 exam, which took no small amount of luck, trust me. As for studying tips, you can search some of my older posts on this forum with regard to that, but my first suggestion would be to buy the following materials:</p>

<ol>
<li>As many of the practice LSATs as possible. By now there are at least 45 available.<br></li>
<li>Purchase PowerScore's LSAT Logical Reasoning and Logic Games Bibles. They've also released a Reading Comprehension Bible. I haven't seen it yet, but I know it's based off of their full-length course materials. I'm familiar with the full-length course materials (I taught for PowerScore this past summer), so my guess is the new RC Bible is pretty solid too.</li>
</ol>

<p>Those were literally the only materials I used for studying. Anything published by Princeton Review or Kaplan is not worth your time or money. Develop a rigorous study plan and stick to it. Also, scoring a 170 untimed is not necessarily worthless. IMHO, it makes sense to start off by taking a few untimed tests to really familiarize yourself with the test and to take a measure of how well you might do under low-stress circumstances.</p>

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<p>Transferkid, yes I loved studying Nietzsche, it was rather interesting, but I wasn't going to list all the philosophers I have studied, it's been the core of my high school career :)</p>

<p>Devilsrule, thank you :) I will take that to heart.</p>

<p>And about the Harvard "taking time off" I have never heard that and most of my family and friends that have applied/attended never took time off, however, some did deferred it, which is indeed something easy to do.</p>

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<p>Hey lilmissstaggart,</p>

<p>I'm exactly like you. I knew where I was going since I was 8 and now I'm 16 and I haven't really changed my stances on my academics and career. However, I highly have to agree with jonri, it does help when some people step in and give you a bit of reality. It doesn't feel so good, but a lot of it is true for most people. When jonri wrote about the girl who couldn't speak when asked who or what she would do pro bono for, I immediately understood the frustration. A good majority of the ppl on this earth like to chant and sign up for this and that when they have no clue what they are doing. A good majority of them have no clue what substance and commitment are. And to those people, I am very dissapointed.</p>

<p>But that doesn't mean you can't let someone dream. For you to want to have a double major in Russian and Chinese relations and philosophy, I don't see why not? It doesn't seem like you know too much about it, since you did use Soviet, which I must say is not right, but I've said Soviet in the wrong places, and other obsolete words in current day events, ANYWAYS, what I'm trying to say is, it's not right for ppl to have no clue what they are saying, but it is also not right for people to not let a kid dream. Philosophy and Public Relations and Russian studies may not be close at all to corporate law, but you stated that you want to major and minor in those, in your undergrad years. Why not? Some of us have broad interests. Some of us want to learn other things, and I don't see why you shouldn't. </p>

<p>I don't know where you were raised, but I was raised next to Stanford University and I was raised to know where I was going. I have planned my life out for so long and I know exactly what I want to be and when I will become them. I was raised in a town where the average of adults with bachelors was 99% and 75% of those had masters. I was raised along with hundreds of other kids to only strive for the best. I'm in grade 11 and for my undergrad, I want a double major, like you, in Sociology and Psychology, perhaps with a minor in linguistics. However, in law school, I want to do IP law or Mass Media law, which isn't very close to Psych or Linguistics or Sociology. So why can't I? I have other interests, I got lead role in Snow White, I speak many languages, most of my classes this year are in art, I teach freshmen courses in my school every week, and I can name you many more, that have absolutely nothing to do with my biggest passion: law.</p>

<p>But then again, with these plans, nothing is guaranteed. Sponteneity happens, plans get rewritten, etc etc. But I'd still rather plan, because then I'd work for it, no matter how ridiculous it might sound to others, I'd rather have a backup plan to fall on. And you said your parents don't really know about your academic interests? That's even more worthy of acknowledgement. My life and the people in it were all raised by parents who instilled us with a path and with rules on where to go and what to do. But you did most of that yourself. And for you to have those passions and have stuck to them for all those years, makes you different than the kids who follow academic trends and are ignorant when it comes to real hard work.</p>

<p>So make sure you really really know what you are doing and where you are going. All I can say is, just work your butt off for it. You might, as many posters have said here, seem to not know anything about what you declare your majors and minors in, but isn't that the whole point of college? Why are you supposed to know everything if you are still in high school?</p>

<p>Russian, Public Policy, Philosophy, and Law may seem like a joke to a lot of people but what happens when you actually do become successful? What happens when you do become a corporate lawyer? I understand that you've travelled a lot and maybe that's why you're interest range is broad. I've travelled a lot as well, I've been to almost ten different schools in three different countries and that has opened my mind up a lot. That's why I want to major in so many different things and maybe that's why you do too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just make sure you don't do it for fun or because it seems cool. And as jonri said, really know where you are going. I'm sure you are well informed since you spent your whole life narrowing down your academic opportunities.</p>

<p>Good Luck To You:] I hope you can prove most ppl, who posted here, wrong.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
I hope you can prove most ppl, who posted here, wrong.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i would hope no prospective law student would ever be motivated by a desire to prove people here wrong -- your only motivation should be finding what course is truly the right one for you. all any poster here can do is offer things for you to consider on that journey. having the mentality that there is a "right" or "wrong' isn't going to help. </p>

<p>its the age old truth that those who are young and dreaming don't like to hear what those who have "been there and done that" have to say. but if someone is coming here looking for advise, i can't help but think that they are better served by the fact that there are those of us who have "been there and done that" who can try to offer them some perspective than for there to just be cheerleading or criticism from people who are basically in the same position as the one seeking the advise. (this is not specifically directed to your post, sarah -- there has just been a lot of poor advise here from people who often know as little or less than a person posing a question)</p>

<p>sarah -- please don't take this as criticism -- but the fact that you have kept the "course" from age 8 to 16 doesn't really say much to me. the growth ahead of you for the next 4 years will undoubtedly be far greater than that of the last 8. don't be afraid to dream, but don't let your dreams limit your ability to learn and grow beyond childhood dreams. what anyone "knows" at 16 is nothing compared to what they will "know" at 20, at 24, at 30, etc. i'm not trying to undermine or criticize what you know at 16 -- i just urge you to see it as a starting point, not a determination, of where you end up.</p>