<p>I think there are some disconnects here regarding our (or our kids’) expectations and experience.</p>
<p>When I went to college, I never occurred to me that I was entitled to bathroom accommodations that were to my liking, nor did it occur to me to ask what the bathroom accommodations were like before I signed up. I, and most of my classmates, as far as I knew, had lots of experience of less-than-optimal bathroom arrangements – sharing at home with family members, using really disgusting facilities at summer camps and living abroad, using institutional facilities at boarding schools, etc. Our job was not to complain about the facilities; our job was to adapt ourselves to them. </p>
<p>At the time I had a chronic medical problem that affected my bathroom use, and sooner or later I had to discuss it with anyone who shared a bathroom with me. So it wasn’t some simple piece of cake for me to share communal bathrooms, much less with women I wasn’t related to. It’s just . . . that was what I had to do to go to the college I chose, so that’s what I did. And one of the things I learned was that it wasn’t the big deal I feared. It wasn’t a big deal at all. As the (unavailable until well into my adulthood) children’s book says, “Everybody Poops.”</p>
<p>Second, my experience of coed bathrooms in college was in the context of the specific design of my college’s dorms. Each bathroom was shared among two or three rooms on a floor in an entryway, usually 5-8 people (and their guests). The bathrooms were co-ed if there were both men and women in rooms on that floor in that entryway, not if not. But it was always essentially a limited number of very specific people, not 30 or 40 people on a corridor. You might not know everyone in the other rooms well on move-in day, but by a couple weeks later you usually did. So it was a lot more like sharing a bathroom with siblings than with strangers, and you didn’t expect company every time you took a shower or used the toilet. (Furthermore, while what my kids call “dormcest” was quite common, relationships between people with neighboring rooms was virtually unknown. I can’t remember a single case. No one talked about it, but I suppose bathroom-sharing may have created a strong taboo against introducing sexual relations into the mix.)</p>
<p>I do not discount the possibility that many newly-minted freshmen feel uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms in their dorms. I just don’t believe they have a right to feel comfortable all the time, or that their discomfort is likely to last more than a few weeks absent other, far more severe problems that would not be solved with a different bathroom assignment policy.</p>
<p>Actually, the bathroom arrangements, the size of the dorm room, general comfort and convenience were all factors in my Ds choices when it came to colleges. Not deciding factors, necessarily, but factors.</p>
<p>The bathroom arrangements are definitely something my guys considered before applying to schools. They eliminated all schools with only co-ed bathrooms. If they were in the OP’s position they’d be annoyed and would probably transfer out if things couldn’t be improved. They wouldn’t particularly like being called the tyrannical majority either.</p>
<p>I’m glad they considered fit before they applied, but it doesn’t help the OP. It can help anyone reading who has students who have yet to apply. There are vast differences in fit. One size does not fit all nor should it.</p>
<p>And when I was in school (back in the dino days) we had guys/gals who changed in opposite gender dorm rooms with others present if they felt comfortable (didn’t bother me). I still wouldn’t care to share a bathroom open to all, so perhaps my guys reluctance is genetic.</p>
<p>I had co-ed bathrooms in college, too–much as JHS described–and there were no issues (except in our case the girls were more hygiene-challenged than the boys).</p>
<p>I’m not sure we have a good enough understanding of the situation the OP describes. Where are these three bathrooms located in reference to each other? How many boys and how many girls are on the floor? How many boys voted for co-ed vs. all male bathrooms? Do showers have doors or curtains?</p>
<p>I’m also a bit skeptical about the alleged bad behavior by some of the girls. I’d want to know more about that, where and when it happened, and to whom, before I based a crusade on that. It might evaporate.</p>
<p>And depending on where this is–for some colleges, you could expect things like this if you did your homework in advance. Nobody requires you to go to any specific college.</p>
<p>Conventional wisdom is that it’s a bad idea to be in a romantic relationship with someone on the same dorm floor. Same dorm, different floor, no problem. Same floor, it’s just too awkward for everyone in the vicinity when the relationship ends.</p>
<p>“I, and most of my classmates, as far as I knew, had lots of experience of less-than-optimal bathroom arrangements – sharing at home with family members, using really disgusting facilities at summer camps and living abroad, using institutional facilities at boarding schools, etc. Our job was not to complain about the facilities; our job was to adapt ourselves to them.”</p>
<p>Private homes are different; of course opposite sex siblings share bathrooms (mine do).<br>
Are there summer camps or boarding schools or fitness centers that have coed bathrooms?
It seems to me that the norm in American society is indeed separate gender bathrooms. </p>
<p>I get that old dorm buildings that were designed for one gender are difficult to retrofit, blah blah blah. Especially for the Ivy League, which was so late to the party in allowing women in. But I doubt Yale’s fitness facilities or stadiums have mixed-gender bathrooms. If it’s truly no big deal, then why don’t schools or public places build new facilities that way?</p>
<p>Oh, just read the rest of JHS’ post where he describes the setup. Thank you for that. That makes a huge difference if you’re talking about a bathroom shared by only 2-3 rooms and it’s like sharing a bathroom with siblings.</p>
<p>For myself, at least, all my experiences were with bathrooms shared by a floor of maybe 30 people, where there was indeed almost always “company” especially in the morning and evening. </p>
<p>That sheds a new light on things. I seriously was picturing only the set up I was used to, with rows of toilets, sinks and showers.</p>
<p>The small dorm I spent the last 2 years of my undergrad had 3 bathrooms on two floors. </p>
<p>All bathrooms were voted on in terms of single gender or co-ed. </p>
<p>Some reasons why co-ed bathrooms weren’t an issue in my dorm/LAC was 1.) Most students who opted to matriculate were already pretty open to the idea considering the LAC has had the option of Co-ed doubles since the late '60s.* 2.) The students in my dorm were very considerate and mature about bathroom usage. No messes or annoying behavior of any kind that I can remember. 3.) Co-ed bathrooms all had a simple improvised sign with a pointer so those who wanted it to be single gender rather than co-ed while they’re there could simply flip the pointer to the desired option and flip it back to co-ed when done and the user’s wishes would be respected. </p>
<ul>
<li>This made the cover of a late '60s newsmagazine.</li>
</ul>
<p>I think it’s a real misstatement to say the norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms. The norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms in public places and in the workplace. (And even there, the norm is wobbling a bit. I would say half the fancy restaurants I go to don’t have separate bathrooms, and a small but increasing number of businesses don’t.) My kids only lived one year in dorms in college (where, by the way, they had single-sex bathrooms on mixed floors). After that, they lived in apartments with other students, most of which had both men and women, who were unrelated and not romantic partners, who shared bathrooms. That’s how I lived, too, in the period between college and marriage.</p>
<p>And college dorms are kind of a special case. There are lots of co-ed bathrooms there, and have been for a long time. So in order to declare them deviant you have to ignore their existence in the first place.</p>
<p>Athletic facilities: While I was at Yale, the women’s varsity crew team marched into the AD’s office naked with T I T L E I X painted on various backs (and a photographer in tow, of course). They wanted to be allowed to use the showers at the rowing facility in Derby rather than having to take a bus back to the fieldhouse. They eventually wanted separate facilities, but since most of them wouldn’t be around for those what they wanted most was to be able to shower at the boathouse. And when I was a Stanford, the squash facility – which back then was almost unused – did not have separate locker rooms for men and women. Really. There were private shower stalls and little anterooms, and you could dress there if you wanted. But I had a regular squash game with a woman, and we used to change next to each other by the lockers. It was a little unusual, but no permanent damage.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, but I agree with the poster(s) who said it was plain creepy. I think it’s very wrong to not have a male-only option. This is not just “less-than-optimal” but a huge violation, IMO. You shouldn’t have to be forced to look or share a space like the bathroom with scantly-clad (which I am sure some girls in there are) people of the opposite gender (and yes, even some guys find it disturbing for any number of reasons). And some girls very well MAY be ‘spying’ on the guys - it DOES happen, and it’s a violation of privacy. Not having an option to avoid all that is absurd.</p>
<p>And it’s NOT just a matter of comfort. What about strict or even moderately religious people? What about the people that just have values that completely clash with sharing what is a pretty intimate space with the opposite gender? Unless they also plan to enforce a very strict dress code and make sure that no one is parading around in their underwear/towel, they have to give a male/female-only option. I cannot believe this is even a question.</p>
If you’re worried about spies, you may as well worry about same gender spies. </p>
<p>The co-ed bathroom I used were shared by probably a couple of dozen potentially, though they had probably four sinks, four toilet stalls and four showers. No one walked down the hall to them in underwear or only a towel.</p>
<p>"If it’s truly no big deal, then why don’t schools or public places build new facilities that way</p>
<p>Private schools do in my experience."</p>
<p>Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant new fitness facilities, stadiums, etc. Are there any colleges with fitness centers with gender-neutral locker rooms? Or sports stadiums, theaters, large lecture halls with one big gender neutral restroom vs separate gender restrooms? </p>
<p>To be clear, I’m thinking about situations where there are lots of people using a facility.n I’ve certainly been to restaurants where the bathroom /sink is just one room and people of either gender use it one at a time, but to me that’s not analogous to a dorm room.</p>
<p>When I was in college, the room assignment questions asked (among other things) whether you wanted a co-ed floor (with co-ed bathrooms, as there was only one large bathroom per floor in most of the dorms) or a single-gender floor, or didn’t care. Single-gender floors were unpopular enough (though generally not at zero popularity) that there was only one of each gender in each co-ed dorm, and the “don’t care” people (and possibly some who preferred co-ed) were put in those floors to fill them up.</p>
<p>But I do agree that all of this should be disclosed before room assignments are made and not changed afterward.</p>
<p>“think it’s a real misstatement to say the norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms. The norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms in public places and in the workplace.”</p>
<p>Fair enough. I guess my experience makes me think of dorm rooms as analogous to public places, where there is a lot of simultaneous company, whereas your setup makes you think of it as analogous to sharing a bathroom in a private house.</p>
<p>The difference is that I (and I suspect I am not alone) am not worried about another girl checking me out - they can if they want to and it won’t bother me. It DOES bother me if a guy is trying to check me out while I am showering/getting ready (which is what it sounds like those girls are doing, and no, I don’t think it’s all in the guy’s mind - girls DO do things like that).</p>
<p>And some guys/girls do use the showers in their towels.</p>
<p>My point is, I do think it’s pretty basic to allow people to have access to same-gender shower/bathroom facilities. And I think FORCING someone to use bathrooms with the opposite gender is a huge privacy violation, not to mention going against people’s personal, cultural, or religion beliefs.</p>
<p>“think it’s a real misstatement to say the norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms. The norm in American society is separate gender bathrooms in public places and in the workplace.”</p>
<p>A dorm IS a public place in this context, since you are not sharing a bathroom with your family.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, and that sounds great, as long as there is that option, and no one is forced into anything, like OP’s son.</p>
<p>Norms aside, if there are 3 bathroom facilities on the floor there’s no reason why 2 shouldn’t be single sex and have the 3rd gender neutral. Voting away the ammenities for the minority is just wrong. A better way to handle it would be to do a blind vote that requires 100% agreement. Unless previously advertised as all co-ed bathrooms each gender should have the option of semi-privacy if desired.</p>
No, but you are analogizing dorms to public spaces that you share with strangers, rather than to “home”. They are in-between, with some characteristics of each. It’s not clear which category they resemble more (and it doesn’t really matter, because we are just analogizing). Most dorm bathrooms aren’t “situations where there are lots of people using a facility.”</p>
<p>I haven’t been to any dorms in the NE. You may have to forgive some of us. I’ve been to dorms in Texas and University of Hawaii. The community baths in the dorms that I’ve seen are meant to service 20-40 students - so I may have some instant misconceptions.</p>