general engineering and uppperclass "weedout" courses

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
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<p>copied and pasted from another thread w/ some edits:</p>

<p>i'm going to be a sophomore next semester in general engineering w/ an engineering related minor. generally what i have heard is that freshman year you may take some "weedout" classes (maybe calc 2/3 are considered in this category). but a recent graduate suggested that those freshman classes are "weeding out" non-engineers from engineers and that there are also weedout classes within engineering classes that start to come out jr year. however i just read another post about the grades in upper level classes tend to be higher. do you think this is a result of work ethic? are there really engineering weedout classes? if so, what classes are these?</p>

<p>another thing i was wondering is whether or not school recognition really matters with employers/graduate school.. in my personal opinion, i feel that "general engineering," even though it's not really "general", doesn't sound that appealing, especially since a lot of engineering schools don't even offer "general engineering" (in fact many ones that do label it as "systems engineering") and u of i's ranking in this major isn't even that great. in fact, i can't even find a ranking online for GE, the only rankings i can find are for industrial. basically what i'm asking is if u of i's recognition in overall engineering help its rankings in GE. part of the reason i'm wondering is because i'mthinking transferring into a different major, maybe cheme? but is it worth it to transfer based off of individual rankings? im more concerned about job opportunities at the moment, not whether or not i like the program.</p>

<p>two more things: does having an engineering minor help at all? i feel like a should, but i've also read it's not a big deal (i might feel the same way considering how easy obtaining the minor is). also, where do you guys get the internships? just from career fairs at the union?</p>

<p>i know i have a lot of questions, but i'd appreciate your input. also, don't mind my sn, it was used as an inside joke/to troll early last year.</p>

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<p>I said I’d answer your question if you made a new post; so I will.</p>

<p>Calculus 2 and 3, Physics 212, Chemistry 102 and 104, and any of the TAM courses are courses that weed out engineers from non-engineers. You never know which one will be the course that finally breaks you.</p>

<p>Advanced engineering courses specific to your major also weed people out. If you’re a civil engineer and complain about Calculus 2, set the book on fire after you’re done with the course, and that sort of thing… that’s ok. If however, you’re hating Statics, Solid Mechanics, and the majority of your 300 level core courses; you’re probably in the wrong major. So yes, your friend is right in saying that there are upper level courses that weed out the civil engineers, or chemical engineers, etc… from those who merely made it to the point where they can finally learn upper level knowldege. The reason grades are higher in upper level engineering courses is two-fold.</p>

<p>First, many people have been weeded out. Second, the courses are more practical and less theoretical. Basically, they are easier, in the sense that you can wrap your head around the knowledge better. However, they are certainly no cake-walk. I did well in my 300 block because I genuinely liked the material, and had a hunger to learn it. It was difficult material, and I could have failed if my motivation had been at the same level as it was for Calc 2.</p>

<p>One note of advice. Many people kid themselves internally that TAM is like physics or math; interesting, challenging, but marginally important. TAM is engineering; and people who hate TAM(mostly civil, mechanical and maybe general), especially Statics and Solid Mechanics, should really think long and hard if engineering is really the place for them.</p>

<p>Moving on to your next question.</p>

<p>Bottom line up front on general engineering: transfer out if there is another major that really sparks your interest.</p>

<p>Here are some facts. The military, specifically the Air Force, Navy,and Coast Guard require some of their officers to be civil, mechanical, or electrical engineers. An architecture degree will also do… nowhere do they mention general. Typically they need civil engineers to run their facilities and build stuff. I mention this point because the federal government, whether in uniform, or out of it, needs civil engineers, as do state governments. That’s one field you’re gonna have a tough time getting into.</p>

<p>A railroad requires civil engineers and electrical engineers; industrial may also apply. Again, no mention of general, and even though they could apply, the recruiter will probably pick civil and electrical.</p>

<p>Those are just two fields I know of where general engineers would be out of luck in this economic environment. </p>

<p>But let’s brainstorm here: a refinery needs mechanical, chemical, petroleum, maybe civil to build; Dupont needs chemical; automobile, construction equipment, and arsenals need mechanical; oil companies need civil, mechanical, or chemical/materials; Ameren IP has a big demand for electrical engineers; ship builders basically don’t exist in the US unless the US Navy is building a ship, but they could take general, although they’d probably go for mechanical and any naval engineers they can find; licensed land surveyors are typically civil engineers; HVAC design is purely mechanical; nuclear power wants nuclear, electrical and mechanical. All these industries operate out of a building and have facilities to maintain which needs civil engineers. The 50 states have DOTs; which are led and run by civil engineers. I didn’t mention that everyone needs software; so software engineers.</p>

<p>That’s a long list; but using my engineering logic, general engineering does not fall as the major of choice for any of the aforementioned categories.</p>

<p>General engineering makes no sense to me, especially at UIUC. You’re busting your but as hard as I am, if not harder. However, you’re getting a general engineering degree, which has no rank, and is catch all in a world of increasing specialization, while I’m getting a civil engineering degree from the number one program. Oh, and people say my civil engineering degree is too “catch all” in nature, and someday civil engineers will need a master’s degree to get their professional license. So if your degree is catch all from the get go, and mine is sometimes viewed as catch all, well I think you see what I’m getting at.</p>

<p>Here’s another fact, as a general engineer, it will be difficult to get a PE License because you’re neither mechanical, nor civil, nor chemical.</p>

<p>I am biased on this and urge you to bring these concerns to your academic advisor. I am sure plenty of general engineers get plenty of good jobs. I’m probably not seeing the big picture on general engineering. But as far as I’m concerned, I think it’s got bad idea written on it.</p>

<p>All engineering bachelor degrees are general in nature. You specialize in your senior year, and on the job, but you learn a broad field. Thus, even if you picked a major like mechanical, civil or chemical, you’d still be pretty broad in knowledge, and that is fine. As an engineer you deal with systems and your career will put you in different jobs. That requires a broad array of knowledge; but not so broad that you can never really solve the problem at hand. </p>

<p>However, if you pick a major whose stated goal is to be general in nature from the start, then there will always be someone who can do the job better than you. Let’s say you need to re-wire a refinery. Will they hire a general engineer, because he can re-wire and do the mechanical part? No, they’ll probably pick a mechanical engineer with a circuits background, or hire a company that employs mechanical and electrical engineers.</p>

<p>The competition for jobs, graduate school, OCS, you name it, is very intense. If it was 1945; I’d say, don’t sweat it, stick with general engineering. 2010; I’d say think about it.</p>

<p>Finally, don’t bother with a minor; unless you’re really motivated about it and it’s easy to get. Internships and research are worth more to your resume and experience than a minor. I know many people who have gotten math minors, and it’s not a bad idea. The thing is that these people were extremely smart, had stellar GPAs, and the minor was a class or two away anyhow.</p>

<p>That’s a lot to digest, but I hope it helps.</p>

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<p>I think NAFTA summed it up pretty well. I can throw in my two cents as well.</p>

<p>Those early Calc, Physics and Chemistry classes along with the TAM classes are all about weeding out people who just don’t have the mindset and/or motivation for engineering. That much is common sense and has been discussed ad nauseum. Usually, there are classes in each engineering major that, while not specifically designed to weed out more people, tend to have that effect. As NAFTA touched on, these often have the effect of just pushing students out of one engineering major into another in addition to out of engineering altogether, so you won’t necessarily have a major drop in class size, you just might swap a few people with other majors.</p>

<p>Each department has different classes that fall into this category. I graduated from MechSE, and for us, ME 300 was generally considered the “weed out” 300-level class. Most people who couldn’t handle ME 300 for one reason or another switched to another engineering. Civil seems to be a popular one because it is closely related to mechanical engineering if you just get rid of the thermodynamics related classes. To a lesser extent, ME 310 (fluids) seemed to function this way. I can’t really comment o n which classes fill this roll for GE.</p>

<p>I don’t think it is a phenomenon based on how hard these classes are, but rather the fact that these are the first classes that start introducing you to the methodology and topics used in your major. Some people realize that the major isn’t really what they thought, others struggle moving from the more theoretical TAM classes into the more applied pure engineering classes, and others still just can’t pick up the problem solving method. Whatever the reason, these early 300-level classes seem to be the final tripping point on your way to a degree. After that, very few people drop out or switch majors.</p>

<p>School recognition matters to a degree, but it isn’t everything. Generally, at a better school, you are more likely to find connections to the most desirable companies, and you are more likely to find said companies at the career fairs. However, once your resume is in that pile, it is as much about what you know and what you have done. For graduate school, the school reputation means you have greater potential to get good recommendation letters and do undergraduate research. Beyond that, going to the top school can help push you over the edge if you are borderline, but you won’t get into grad school on name alone.</p>

<p>General engineering is fine if you want to apply to companies at the career fair at UIUC. They likely are aware of the GE program and know what it is and how to use it. If you want to go anywhere that isn’t familiar with the program specifically, however, it could definitely work against you in some cases. I would have to agree that if you are interested in a different engineering, transferring wouldn’t be a bad thing to consider. Definitely talk to your advisor about it if you feel comfortable. He will give you a biased answer of course, but he probably still has some good information.</p>

<p>Minors are largely useless, as NAFTA said. The exception is if you are looking to get into a field that specifically requires skills that can be acquired through a minor. These instances are not extremely common though.</p>

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<p>Agreed with boneh3ad. He explained the part about the 300 level courses better than I did.</p>