<p>
[quote]
I'm sure people cheat in medical school, but there is a BIG difference in the people that cheat in medical school and people that cheat in high school.
[/quote]
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<p>I would venture to say that the ones that are cheating in med school most likely got their start in high school.</p>
<p>You can believe what you want, but the bottom line is that cheating is cheating whether its on homework, tests, in high school, college, grad school or med school.</p>
<p>Any which way you want to look at it, cheating is : to deceive by trickery, to swindle, to deprive by trickery, to mislead, to fool, to elude.</p>
<p>There's no such thing as a "real" cheater, or a "half" cheater, or an "almost" cheater. You either are, or you're not.</p>
<p>And everyone is free to make that choice ... and live with it.</p>
<p>"Some people set morals and values for themselves, others do not.
Some people abide by the morals and values that they set, others do not.
Either way your morals and values are drastically different from another person's morals and values. In general, it is wrong to try to force your morals and values on another person.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=FastLane]
There's no such thing as a "real" cheater, or a "half" cheater, or an "almost" cheater. You either are, or you're not.
Ok, forget "real" cheaters. There are different "levels" of cheating. Cheating on homework is not as bad as cheating on the final exam. Although both people are undeniably cheaters. That is what I meant by the "real" cheater.</p>
<p>The same applies in the real world. If you are in a car accident and the other person was killed that is vehicular manslaughter. But vehicular manslaughter is "not as bad" as first-degree murder.</p>
<p>Like I said, you can believe what you want. If it makes you feel better to justify an action by classifying it into different "levels", then hey, you gotta do what feels right for you -- knock yourself out.</p>
<p>But I doubt that the families of the victims of your vehicular manslaughter and first degree murder examples would feel any different about losing the life of a loved one. I don't think they would care about the "level" of the crime. Bottom line is an injustice was committed. Bottom line is cheating is cheating.</p>
[QUOTE=FastLane]
Bottom line is an injustice was committed.
Is that what you call first degree murder? :shock: Injustice?!
Bottom line is that I believe in different "levels" of cheating. You dont. We disagree. Neither my thinking nor your thinking is wrong or right. You need to understand that in life people will have different views than you, but that just because a view is different and uncomprehendable to you that does NOT mean that is it the wrong view.</p>
<p>I believe I never used the words wrong or right. I simply stated my OPINIONS
"everyone is free to make that choice ... and live with it." and I also said "you can believe what you want" and I also said "you gotta do what feels right for you -- knock yourself out."</p>
<p>These are simply my OPINIONS. However, it's very presumptious of you to insinuate that the fact that I choose to state my OPINIONS implies that I don't understand that people have different views, or that it is incomprehensible to me that people do not agree. The fact that I have a different opinion does not, and will not, stop me from speaking my mind. I'm exercising my right to speak my opinion on the matter, just as you have. Afterall, that is what these forums are all about. I have not made any direct, personal attack on you -- chill.</p>
<p>"everyone is free to make that choice ... and live with it." and I also said "you can believe what you want" and I also said "you gotta do what feels right for you -- knock yourself out."</p>
<p>amen</p>
<p>its all a matter of choice and consequences</p>
<p>I was not attacking you FastLane, it just seems that most of the people in this thread have decided that cheating is horrible and that people should not cheat, an opinion which is fine. But basically I was trying to point out that some people think that cheating is ok, and people should understand that it's fine for those people to think that, thats their opinion and as you said "everyone is free to make that choice ... and live with it." So sorry if my comments seemed directed at you, I was merely using what you said to try to make my point.</p>
<p>A thought sort of struck me as I was reading this thread. If the only reason a person doesn't cheat is because he is afraid of the consequences, what does that say about how that person was raised? What I mean is, if the best argument a parent can come up with to dissuade a child from cheating is an anecdote about someone who was caught, aren't they missing the point? It's sort of like telling a child "don't kill someone because you might get caught". It's sort of a backwards way to pass on your values in my opinion.</p>
<p>"A thought sort of struck me as I was reading this thread. If the only reason a person doesn't cheat is because he is afraid of the consequences, what does that say about how that person was raised?"</p>
<p>It simply states that a person is at a lower level of moral development than a person who doesn't cheat simply because, for instance, it's unethical or their conscience won't allow them.</p>
<p>That may be due to how the person was raised. IMO, however, it may also be due to a person's character that they person was born with. Psychopaths, for instance, care only about their own self interest. There is some indication that some individuals were born that way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We disagree. Neither my thinking nor your thinking is wrong or right. You need to understand that in life people will have different views than you, but that just because a view is different and uncomprehendable to you that does NOT mean that is it the wrong view.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>rksprst - doesn't mean your view is the right view, either. Your view is not at all "uncomprehensible" [sic] - it's very comprehensible, I'm afraid. There are things in this world that just aren't subject to opinion, whatever opinions you may have - of course, that's just my opinion. . . . . .</p>
EXACTLY! There's a very fine line there, that's why its so hard to make the point I was making. Cause cheating is exactly on the fine line between something that isn't subject to opinion(like killing is wrong, no opinion there) and something that is(your view on gay-marriage).</p>
<p>Quote: "cheating in high school and cheating in medical school are 2 different things.
you can't compare cheating in high school were the only thing that you lose by cheating is trust and maybe get an F in a class
while you medical school a person's LIFE is at stake."</p>
<p>Cheating in medical school is different than cheating in high school, however, in both instances a life is at stake. Most cheaters wrongly believe that their actions only affect themselves in high school. This is not true. Many hardworking students have been screwed over by cheating students who get slightly better grades and "earn" a higher class rank. If you are a cheater, I would like to hear you justify your actions to a hard-working student who has lost a scholarship or received a rejection letter due to their lower class rank.</p>
<p>And to the people who believe that everyone cheats, grow up. At my school NO ONE in the top 10% of our class cheats. We are satisfied with our work. The irony of it sometimes makes me laugh. We are able to whip the butts of everyone in our class WITHOUT cheating!</p>
<p>Bottom line, cheating is wrong and it hurts everyone. And "first-time cheaters" are just as bad as someone who is a compulsive cheater.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What I mean is, if the best argument a parent can come up with to dissuade a child from cheating is an anecdote about someone who was caught, aren't they missing the point?
[/quote]
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<p>There are a group of people who do not cheat because it is morally and ethically wrong. I hold them in the highest regard but I am not naive enough to believe that everyone can be persuaded to think that way.</p>
<p>I believe that there are some people who do not cheat because they are afraid that they might be caught. I don't think that it is missing the point to remind those who have crossed over the behavioral line that there are consequences if they do get caught. Perhaps there is no one out there who would change their behavior after reading a story about some kids getting tossed out of school......but you never know. At the very least it reminds those who take the high road that once in a while the good guys win.</p>
<p>The students who were expelled from Columbia were undergrads on the pre-med track. FWIW, I questioned my daughter about cheating at the school and to her knowledge this was a rare occurrence. She didn't feel that most of her peers had a reason to cheat. They work hard, get good grades and ergo, will get into a decent grad program if that is their desire.</p>
<p>i am a junior and i copied a lab report and was caught for it. i felt guilty and told my teacher three days afterward and the reason i did it was becaus it was a group lab report and the group dumped it on me. i had to do a bunch of hw at the end of spring break because i was on college visits and i did not want others to fail because of me so i just copied it. as a result of this, i got a C that quarter and went on to get a b+ as my final grade in that class. i am an overqualified student w/ excellent ECs, 2250+ SAT score, and a near-4 gpa. How will this impact my admissions to places like UVA, CMU, Cornell, Penn, and Stanford? What is the best way I can repent this (I do because I admitted this to my teacher before he confronted me about it).</p>
<p>Cheating has become a way of life for High Schoolers. I did a survey (anonymous survey) for Psychology on the Psychology of cheating. Asking people "Have they done it" "Why they did it" and "Have they been caught". Some interesting numbers. 92% of all the high schoolers at my school have cheated before. 54% have copied a neighbor's test entirely. 74% of the students who haven't cheated are Asian. 89% of the Junior's reasons for cheating was because "They didn't have enough time". So when the above poster said that 4 others in his class were doing it, I wasn't surprised.</p>
<p>What always made me laugh is how some kids put so much effort into figuring out ways to cheat efficiently, when if they put that same effort into school itself, they'd be just fine.</p>
<p>Personally, I'm offended by cheaters. You can talk all you want about how you're only hurting yourself, and it's only a test, and who cares, but it's not true. You're hurting every other honest student out there because ultimately, we have to compete with you for college acceptances. I applied to college with a 3.83 GPA, which was somewhere near 17th in the class. Had I cheated, or had no one else in my class cheated I probably would've ranked 7th or 8th in the class. For every test where a cheater bails themself out of being unprepared by cheating, the honest students fall one step behind. Almost everyone stumbles in high school, forgetting a test was coming, being unprepared or just having an off day. The honest students take their lumps and accept the test grade they earned that day. It's not fair that we have to compete with students who decided that they should get better than they deserve.</p>
<p>In terms of "levels" of cheating, I agree in terms of copying homework answers is NOT in the same category as cheating on a test or plagiarizing. I'm a straight A student and I never, ever cheat on tests, essays, exams, projects, etc. but I see nothing wrong with overly stressed students helping each other with homework occasionally. Obviously, it is not a smart idea to do so often, because it only screws you over in the long run, but all-in-all it's not a big deal.</p>
<p>That said, I do get ****ed off by students who cheat on tests. my AP U.S. class was an absolute joke, and every single person around me cheated on tests. My classmates know not to ask me for answers anymore, because I won't give them. I would much rather take the C or D by not cheating (and I have) than to cheat and get the A. I see the C or D as an acceptable consequence of not studying. it paid off, though, when we took the AP test and all those people who cheated got 1s.</p>
<p>That's VERY true... Last year I bought an Algebra 2 solution key b/c my teacher was SUCH a Bi***... She gave us like 100 problems everyday and my homework, at times, would take up over 12 pages, front and back... It was WAAY to much... I've never really cheated on a test or a quiz before.... And I've never copied homework.</p>
<p>If you and a fellow student work together on a test and the teacher allows it, thats fine. You are both learning. However, if you copy another students paper and try to pass it off as your own, you are cheating. Homework is part of the grade in most courses, so it doesnt matter whether you cheat on homework or on a test. The result is the same.</p>
<p>You lack moral fiber if you cheat, whether on homework, on tests, or elsewhere in life. A person cannot be mostly honest. You are either honest or you are not. If you are not, others cannot trust you because they dont know when you will be dishonest next. Try to acquire honesty and good character now while you are young. They are much more difficult to acquire when you are older and set in your ways.</p>