<p>what a psycho</p>
<p>Lesson of the day... CHeating is bad yes, but if you do decide to cheat, don't draw national news attation to yourself. :)</p>
<p>The ideal of parenthood is to love the children unconditionally. And that for me comes easily. I have loved them through all of their trial and tribulations, and extricated them from all kinds of trouble. When they become independent adult, I do believe the relationship can be colored by the type of morals and lifestyle they lead. Though I would truly love a jailbird as much as I would the model citizen, it certainly would affect the relationship I would feel for them. That is something independent of love. I would not be proud of a son who spends his life lying and cheating as his style. Fortunately, that has not been an issue as of this point, but with 9 of them, it may well end up that way. I've learned that with kids you cannot predict or direct where they will go. But, yes, the people they turn out to be will certainly affect their relationship with me and vice versa. Irrevocably, no. But I simply prefer not to be around people who think cheating is fine and is part of the way they get through life. </p>
<p>I work with many families and kids who cheat, lie and misinform. If that is the way they want to operate, however, I do recuse myself and let them find someone else. I don't turn them in or wish them ill. If they have a direct question, as this OP did on what to do and what the possible consequences are, I tell them to the best of my ability. As I did for the OP. But as to the ensuing debate as to whether everyone cheats, I feel that it is really a closed discussion. It is wrong. I find it hard to believe that this very bright senior who says he has never cheated before thought it was ok to cheat. I doubt any school system would have that policy. In all these years, he has never heard what the penalities are for cheating? I am reasonably sure, that he well knew it was a problem to cheat, and the possible penalties, but he thought he would not get caught and is now looking for an out. Well, I think we have covered his possible penalties, and I have told him to the best of my knowledge, what he should do to mitagate the problem. And his school may well not report him to a college, as the young man I knew who was caught cheating was not so reported. That one I knew, and though he too claimed he was under stress and had never before cheated and did not know better, that was not the case. He had turned in other work he had "bought" and openly bragged about it. He also felt very strongly that "everyone cheats" and did not feel that it was a big deal at all. This is a prevaiing thought I have heard echoed many times, and it is really the wrong way to go. There are many people who do not cheat and do not want to deal with cheats. </p>
<p>So far, I have not had cheating on the list of problems that my kids have presented. Or dishonesty. But problems, yes, I have had, and hopefully they and anyone will understand that cheating, lying, stealing are not just acute problems that can just be solved by doing your punishment, saying you are sorry. They can easily become chronic ones, that are infesting too many people. And, yes, it does color the way people treat you, think of you if you are a chronic cheat, liar, thief, ax murderere. Even your own mother who loves you just the same.</p>
<p>i learnt another lessonl... i'm never posting ever again on topics like this. i always write something impusively, and i shouldnt have debated about cheating</p>
<p>just wondering... where do u moms live, age? and what colleges u went to?</p>
<p>Sybbie, I remember the case. Did the Hornsteins go on with the lawsuit? Or was that too dropped along wih the valedictorian honor? I always felt that much of this was parent driven in her case. Never heard anything more about where she ended up. A shame, as Harvard would have been able to accomodate her health issues better than probably any other school as they were able to do so with Brooke Ellison, a quadraplegic who graduated from there a few years ago.</p>
<p>Collegefear, these people telling you to "grow up" just don't get it. What matters is the end result. You took the chance on cheating, as you had gotten away with it countless times before. Indeed, that's why you were accepted to top engineering programs like Virginia Tech in the first place. However, your teacher completed a "Hail Mary" so to speak, and now you need to pay the piper.</p>
<p>You smell lemons, but I taste lemonade. If the school really had "integrity", they would call each school to which you applied and reported your actions. The fact they haven't is your opening. The school is telling you that you need to step up in order to enter college next year. By admitting your wrongdoing? Oh, heavens no. Rather, step up FINANCIALLY. I don't blame your school, mind you. In the face of draconian budget cuts, they have to become creative in generating revenue. Now with movies like "Super Size Me" cutting on schools who even sell junk food in high schools to raise revenue, they need to come up with more innovative ways to attract teaching talent without paying market-rate salaries. Allowing for "creative entrepreneurial revenue streams" is the way to go.</p>
<p>Collegefear, here's the deal you're going to make. Tell your teacher(s) that you have seen the light, and your most fervent desire is for them to rescue you. You need salvation from them in order to represent their school at a top campus. That salvation comes in the wake of "Mr. Chips/My Tutor/Billy Madison" style reeducation. Intensive, Oxford-style tutoring at a rate of $200 per hour, four hours per week, for fifteen weeks (through the end of the school year). This comes to a total of $12,000.</p>
<p>I've sat through enough high school graduations where the Ivy League enrollees are applauded to know that the school really doesn't want to throw away an opportunity at good publicity. What you are doing is finding a win-win scenario.</p>
<p>Now you may think, "My God, $12,000!!! There goes StepMom & Dad's down payment on my Lexus SUV." Ah, but you're mistaken, dear Son. You see, "tutoring" is an allowable expense under, that's right, the Coverdell Education Savings Account (formerly the Education IRA). You tap the Coverdell to fix this problem and to secure admission to fill-in-the-blank without any troublesome questions. Your teacher is thrilled to get this source of extra income, while your step/parents are pleased with your creativity at finding a tax-free solution to their crisis of explaining to Jon and Cyndy at the Beach Club that you are "forgoing fill-in-the blank to enter the military and represent your country in the War on Terror/Iraq/Iran" (hold your laughter in polite society). Finally, your high school gets to tell the local paper, the local school board, and prospective parents about the fine young man who is making them proud at fill-in-the-blank on the way to a lucrative career at some war profiteering engineering firm.</p>
<p>This is truly a win-win-win-win. You get to go to a topflight school, and you learn to cover your tracks when you cheat as my sons do. As for the Coverdell funds, you can make that up in no time by setting up a paper mill at college, or using the expanded University bandwidth to run an engineering file-sharing plan or something like that. I have faith in you, Collegefear. Or rather, CollegeNOfear!!!</p>
<p>Crichessill -Actually, perhaps it was a good thing you did debate, as a lot of kids read this board and may think twice if they're tempted to try to get away with something impulsively.
Age? - no way. College? UCal. I have a college sophomore and a high school junior. I hope that they know in their hearts that no school or award or grade is worth sacrificing their integrity. I'd rather they go to the local cc if that's where just doing their best leads them. It's just school, after all!</p>
<p>thats true actually. as hard as it to believe, i learn a lesson from this thread!! i think its funny and suprising. i will definitely think twice before I think of cheating. also, collegefear has taught me the consequences of cheating. i am so not ready for it. life is too valuable for me to wasie it on this type of stuff</p>
<p>
[quote]
You don't mistakenly cheat. You make a mistake by cheating. I agree you then have to pay the consequences. However, I disagree that all of your relationships (including your relationship with your own mother) as well as your future endeavors are thereby and irrevocably "colored". Geez.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you still trust your kids after they lie to you, and have lied to you often in the past? You have to deal with problems like this, not just love them away. The fact is, I'm easily as liberal as you are, and all the harshness and judgementality I see is coming from you (those dirty Republicans that enslave their children). Janimom loves her kids, but just as importantly, she requires them to act ethically and her kids know that there will be consequences for acting unethically.</p>
<p>lol. my friend got caught cheating once. the teacher gave him a lecture about how he would like it if he had to get surgery, and the doctor who was gonna perform surgery on him had cheated on his exams in med school...</p>
<p>Not all people cheat, but MANY do..I witness it everyday...</p>
<p>i cheat every day, but not on tests or quizzes. like i put -- down for my homework and copy any type of assignment possible to do work. i dont think that's considered that bad, but cheating on test and quizzes is. again everyoen is subject to their opinions. and its easy to empathize for yourself</p>
<p>crichessill,
your comments in the Cafe, where you expressed concern that adcoms are reading these boards, makes me wonder what lesson you really learned after posting on this thread. From your various posts, it seems the lesson that you learned is not to post saying that you think that everyone cheats, and the problem is not cheating, but getting caught.</p>
<p>i learned everything u said, plus what i have been saying in the last 2 posts.... cheating is bad, and i was wrong about how everyone cheats</p>
<p>jamimom and birdofprey have it exactly right. I love my kids, but I still hold them accountable for their actions. Would I love my kids less if they cheated? No, of course not. But like jamimom, I would look at them differently. Because they would be different - it would be like my husband going to work wearing a clown suit. It would say something so totally different about who they are that I would have to look at them differently. </p>
<p>The best A if ever got was from a professor who was called out of the room during a test. All the other kids started sharing answers. I was tempted, I admit it. But I had always thought I was honest, and I decided I didn't want to be someone different. A couple of the others challenged me for not sharing answes. I just smiled and told them they were welcome to do whatever, but I was going to do what was right for me. </p>
<p>You can guess the rest - everyone got an F and I got an A. Turns out the teacher suspected people in her class were cheating, and faked the whole thing, and was listening in. She announced the test was not testing the course content, but testing the students. (The sad thing is that she could only give one A - everyone else had cheated.)</p>
<p>Does it mean anything about who we are, and whether we value integrity? Without saying too much, I will tell you there is an on-going investigation by a state attorney general. I was called in, and the AG's people went through some of my material.</p>
<p>Several people I know have already plead guilty, and will go to jail. Others have been indicted. And what did the AG's office do to me? They told me I'd done a good job, and thanked me. I got another A. </p>
<p>I wonder if the people who got indicted just thought they were okay because "everyone" was doing it. Sure, go ahead and scoff, and say it's only homework, or it's only one test. But it tells you who you are.</p>
<p>ur all so good at writing, its so well composed.</p>
<p>I took a class where the professor layed it out for us the first day--"Don't Plagiarize, Don't cheat. If you do, I will pull you aside after you turn in your test, and quietly say "You got an F."" Needless to say one idiot just didn't get it through his thick skull. Even the TA who read the paper stated that she felt personally insulted as writing was her profession/passion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I took a class where the professor layed it out for us the first day--"Don't Plagiarize, Don't cheat. If you do, I will pull you aside after you turn in your test, and quietly say "You got an F."
[/quote]
You would be lucky to only get an F. Kids get tossed out of school every year for cheating. My daughter was told that three Columbia pre-meds were expelled after taking a bio final this past fall. I am sure that their parents are distressed for a million different reasons and I can guess how the students themselves are feeling right about now, knowing that their chances of getting into any medical school are rather slim. </p>
<p>If you have gotten into the habit of not submitting work that is your own during high school you might want to rethink your modus operandi before heading off to college. If they catch you, you're gone....and yes, a few people get away with it but do you really want to deal with the repercussions of being expelled from school?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most of us are not going to make a huge impact on the world, but we can at least make sure that our little space is clean.
[/quote]
As usual Jamimon, words to live by.</p>
<p>Wasn't it a Columbia student who was expelled for allegedly having a radioactive pillow? I wonder if she won her appeal.</p>
<p>"lol. my friend got caught cheating once. the teacher gave him a lecture about how he would like it if he had to get surgery, and the doctor who was gonna perform surgery on him had cheated on his exams in med school...</p>
<p>Not all people cheat, but MANY do..I witness it everyday..."</p>
<p>cheating in high school and cheating in medical school are 2 different things.
you can't compare cheating in high school were the only thing that you lose by cheating is trust and maybe get an F in a class
while you medical school a person's LIFE is at stake.</p>
<p>I'm sure people cheat in medical school, but there is a BIG difference in the people that cheat in medical school and people that cheat in high school.</p>
<p>on the other hand imagine a surgeon who was gonna perform a surgery on you that had gotten a 70% percent on a test without cheating. you wouldn't want that surgeon either.</p>
<p>lots of people cheat + copy on hw, but it is only a few that actually are the "real" cheaters, who cheat on tests</p>