Getting a JD for personal reasons?

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've read the previous postings on the law and business forums about the costs and benefits of JD/MBA programs, but most of the discussions are about practical issues, such as how an MBA can help with a corporate law career. I'm interested in getting parents' views about getting a JD for personal reasons. </p>

<p>I've already been admitted to a top 10 MBA program and am on deferral for a year. (Yes, I know that's very unusual, but I had some special circumstances in my case and was lucky enough to be one of the few to get a deferral.) I am considering applying for a JD from the same school to do a JD/MBA combo. I'm currently studying for the December LSAT and have a high GPA. I can apply this year or next year and still be able to do the combined program in 4 years.</p>

<p>I've read a lot about JD/MBAs and can't see much of a professional rationale for attending both schools. Therefore, my reasons are entirely personal. </p>

<p>I've wanted to go to law school since I was a kid. I love to read, write, and research. Many of the people I admire are law professors and I have taken classes at the law school during undergrad through cross-enrollment. I enjoy philosophy and public policy and may want to pursue a career in policy or academia in the future. I've read the bios of many lawyers who are now in "alternative" fields and really like the paths they've taken. Basically, I want to fulfill a dream of going to law school and keep my options open as far as future policy and academic careers.</p>

<p>I know that I don't want to be a conventional private practice lawyer. I've read many articles about the general unhappiness in the legal field and know that the corporate life is not for me. I'm fairly bohemian in style and don't want the fancy car, house, etc. However, I come from a lower socioeconomic background and want a comfortable life and to feel that I have some economic security and professional respect. I also really like to work hard, so the extra effort involved in getting a JD would not be a drawback. I don't have any family commitments that would keep me from spending the extra two years. I'm in my mid- to late-20s and don't anticipate having a family in the near future.</p>

<p>I know that the debt levels would be high, but I live very frugally and anticipate getting a high-powered job for a few years after the MBA anyway to pay off my debts anyway. I am also expecting an inheritance (complicated story) in the next 5 - 10 years of about $120k. Of course, I could spend that inheritance on other things, such as a house, starting a business, or just taking time off, so fulfilling the dream of a JD would mean that I would basically spend the entire inheritance on this one thing. </p>

<p>The JD would be for personal satisfaction and also for future career possibilities down the line.</p>

<p>What do you think? What would you do? What kind of questions should I be asking?</p>

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<p>I deferred B-school (Wharton) too - - but never enrolled; instead, I went to law school. I have a number of friends who attended law school for personal reasons, but that was back when tuition was far less expensive and in every case the student had a trustee, spouse or parent who wrote the tuition check with relative ease. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I think it would be foolish to incur huge debt on a lark.</p>

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<p>I deferred a very prestigious graduate program, and ended up going to law school because it seemed like something that might suit me, tempermentally. I ended up practicing law for many years, and am now in academia. I have never for a moment regretted having gone to law school. I definitely went for personal reasons - not because I knew I was destined to be a lawyer. I was curious about it. It was an absolutely terrific education! I would have been fine with leaving after the first year if I didn't like it, but it was actually fascinating. I learned so much about the institutions that shape our world, and how powerful people behave. If you can swing it financially, you should follow your bliss. (Though I agree that MBA+JD would generally be unnecessary)</p>

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<p>Here's the problem. As someone who interviews often for an ibank, I'm wondering why someone in their mid to late 20's with an admit to a top MBA program is getting a JD for personal reasons. We see many resumes from eternal students. Very, very bright kids who can't face choosing something and have the need to keep all of their options as open as they were when they entered college. If this is you, get off the merrygoround! I must admit to having taken a look at past posts and you may fit this mold.</p>

<p>There was another thread here on CC in the last few days about kids not graduating in 4 years because they didn't want college to end and they had a term for the syndrome.</p>

<p>So make sure that's not what you're doing! One more year is no big deal and may well be worth it, but some of your other posts show that you may be having anxiety making life choices, so slow down and make sure your not taking every road rater than choosing one and using your obvious gifts to excel at it.</p>

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<p>nyc, </p>

<p>How did you decide to defer Wharton and go to law school instead? Did your interests change from business to law? </p>

<p>Also of your friends who attended law school for personal reasons, where did they end up career-wise? Did they use the law degree?</p>

6

<p>FauxNom,</p>

<p>How did you decide to defer the grad program? Was law school more interesting or more career oriented (or both, I guess)? Have you maintained your interest in your other field of study? </p>

<p>Many people have told me that legal academia is very difficult to get into, even if you have a Harvard JD and edited the law review or something equally fabulous. Have you found this to be so?</p>

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<p>HMom,</p>

<p>I'm not sure if I'm an "eternal student", at least in the usual sense. I love to do things and have an impact. I like working. On the other hand, I love to learn and think and I definitely like to keep my options open (probably to a fault). </p>

<p>Coming to academia after having had a long break (I came back recently to finish undergrad), gives me a very different perspective on "taking time off" and "going back to school". I can't really relate to the standard terms. I want to always be learning something, but I definitely don't view school as a way to hide out from the world. My experience at an elite, overachiever type school has in fact been the opposite, as education has been a way to engage with the world. I have been involved with many on- and off-campus extracurricular activities, some of which were very much like a job. I've also been working almost continuously since junior high school, so I'm not afraid of work.</p>

<p>I just don't know if I fit the definition of eternal student, and I'm not sure how I feel about it if I did. Is it a bad thing? If true, does it mean that I should orient my career more towards academia where that might be more acceptable?</p>

8

<p>It's not a bad thing but it's a tremendous luxury that most can't afford in many ways. </p>

<p>DH would plead guilty to the syndrome. He left a PhD program after 2 years to do a top JD. He worked for a law firm after the first summer of law school, hated it and added an MBA. He's had a long career in management consulting and would say the law training is not something he regrets, but he never used it in a formal way. </p>

<p>He will admit today that he just didn't relish the idea of the real world when compared to the academic life he found so much fun. Let's face it, there are many of us on a life long quest for knowledge. DH would tell you that his love of learning took on even more fun forms as time went on with significant travel, courses and setting aside time for these pursuits no matter what else was going on.</p>

<p>Oldest DS has had issues of his own. He's a perfectionist and no option seemed perfect as he was about to graduate. It's often an anticlimax after all the years of excitedly reaching for the next educational wrung. A couple of years working was an amazing help in getting him to see what he really wanted and he's now in grad school.</p>

<p>There will come a point when love of learning will be seen as indeciveness by employers. Remember, the types of jobs you are likely to want all involve folks who love learning and have the same pulls you do.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
I've wanted to go to law school since I was a kid. I love to read, write, and research. Many of the people I admire are law professors and I have taken classes at the law school during undergrad through cross-enrollment. I enjoy philosophy and public policy and may want to pursue a career in policy or academia in the future. I've read the bios of many lawyers who are now in "alternative" fields and really like the paths they've taken. Basically, I want to fulfill a dream of going to law school and keep my options open as far as future policy and academic careers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What a clear articulation of what you want to do and love. :)</p>

<p>There will be jobs in your fields of interest for excellent students such as you.</p>

<p>Just because a lot of lawyers go into private practice and/or corporate positions doesn't mean that you have to.</p>

<p>My question is: why an MBA? Imo, consider looking closely at the cost/benefit of that. </p>

<p>Keep repeating to yourself:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've wanted to go to law school since I was a kid.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>and think very carefully before you decide to disappoint that child.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
so fulfilling the dream of a JD would mean that I would basically spend the entire inheritance on this one thing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You speak as if "this one thing" amounts to blowing it all at one fell swoop, on clothes at Neiman-Marcus. :)</p>

<p>In reality, though, "this one thing" can be, according to what you said, three years of personal growth and the means to your entire, cherished, and long-dreamed-of future.</p>

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<p>I think a law school education serves one well in MANY areas of life. I have no regrets about mine, and I haven't spent one second working in Big Law. Go for it.</p>

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<p>Before you start applying to law schools, ask yourself what can you see yourself doing with the JD degree career-wise. My mother's friends will insist I should pursue a JD only because it's well-known and considered the safest route to a lot of money. But you have to ask yourself: do you really want to be a lawyer? </p>

<p>I don't like the law. I don't want to work in a big firm. People's interests change over time. Mine certainly did between childhood and young adulthood. There are plenty of other educational options (have you considered a professional Master's program??) that are incredibly cheaper (less debt load) and more geared to whatever it is you want to do in life.</p>

13

<p>OP- there are many opportunities to do public policy with an MBA. As a reason for doing law school- it's a weak one. The best way to keep your options open in the policy arena down the road is to do an MBA and make sure you take as many econometrics or operations research classes as you can.</p>

<p>There are thousands of people working in think tanks with JD's publishing papers on how to reform food stamps or K-12 Education or to get malaria vaccines to people who need them. The people who actually do this stuff for a living understand the tax code, the economy, or supply chain management.</p>

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<p>In thinking about this I too was wondering, why the MBA? In a later post you express interest in academia. Then there's interest in a JD, and if I'm correct, you'd be quite interested in many other things and be able to do them all well. I'll bet you told yourself you wanted to do lots of things as a child, the JD was just one of them. You are not alone, smart folks often go through this!</p>

<p>I think the idea that you get all your education and then go off into the working world is backwards. This is why business schools insist on several years of work experience. Clearly you've had some to have gotten in, but it sounds like you need some post college. Employers want a work force that really wants to be there and grow a career in their business. Without getting out there and seeing how you enjoy work and different lifestyles, it's very hard to visualize the experience and make the best decisions. I always tell my kids that an internship they hated is as valuable as one they loved. Can't tell you how many people I see in careers that don't suit them.</p>

<p>And the idea that all learning happens in schools is also very wrong. Your career should give you fascinating learning opportunities and there is a lifestyle of learning that the well employed can usually afford.</p>

<p>In past posts you've debated traveling, internships, fellowships......my advice is to go work for a few years. Keep your expenses low so most options remain intact. I think after 2 or 3 years you'll have a clear idea of what you want. Good luck!</p>

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<p>And if you ever want to become a politician on the national stage, you won't be stumped by a question having to do with Supreme Court cases!</p>

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<p>I do have a wide range of interests, some of which are suited by an MBA (or perhaps just a straight business career) and others by a JD. I know that the MBA is not strictly necessary for many paths (although would be very educational and personally rewarding, I'm sure). </p>

<p>HMom, can you tell me a bit about your husband? How did his interests evolve? (Feel free to PM or, of course, just say so, if that's too personal a question.)</p>

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<p>I think you should go for it NOW and to a joint degree. Your cost are minimized. Your extra fees and tuition is very small in comparison to going back for either. Pursue your insterests while you can. If you are as smart as you say you should be able to get scholarships for one or both. JD's are valuable whether you enter the litigation arena or not. I have a JD and wish I had done an MBA at the same time. Now after practicing law for 25 years, I am looking for an exit and a new start in a new direction.</p>

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<p>Atlmom, I don't know if I'm that smart, but I appreciate your advice! It's good to get some encouragement to go for it! :)</p>

<p>Good luck in your new direction!</p>

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<p>Hi returning. DH is the type who soaks up 5 books a week and always has a new subject of interest. A true intellectual. He changed college majors several times because he kept falling in love with subjects as he went through school. When he entered a PhD program he realized he didn't want to just commit to a single area.</p>

<p>Long story short, his parents saw he would never leave school if he had a choice and cut him off after his MBA! He planned to work, make some money and go back for a JD on his dime. Before that could happen, he fell in love with his career. </p>

<p>After a couple of jobs most would envy that he didn't enjoy, he found himself at a consulting firm where he has made a career he loves. He has a lot of variation in the projects he takes on and is very fulfilled because he is constantly growing because of this diversity.</p>

<p>In addition, he has been fortunate enough to make a great living, much of which has been spent on 30 years of amazing travel which we find to be the greatest learning experience of all. He is also constantly taking classes, he has an amazing social group who there is always something to learn from and has found fulfilling experiences in community service. He has also been our children's greatest teacher.</p>

<p>Life is a journey of learning if you make it one.</p>

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<p>Op- a rigorous MBA program is the opposite of "personally rewarding". You should take a hard look at the course catalog and invest a day sitting in on some classes if you are starting the program for personal growth. The top programs are trade schools- no more, no less. Wharton, Chicago, Harvard, Stanford- they're teaching you a well recognized pile of content (accounting, finance, strategy, etc.) which will enable you to get a good job and further the reputation of the school by hiring many of its alums in the future.</p>

<p>The top students in the top schools are the ones who work the hardest at mastering the content. This isn't like undergrad where you get points for thinking unconventionally about Kant and Hegel.</p>

<p>I'd rethink B-school if you're looking for intellectualism.</p>