Getting in

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hi there,</p>

<p>Firstly, what are the chances of an international student getting into a medicine course at a US college?</p>

<p>Secondly, what are the chances of an international student getting into a Ivy league college, such as Harvard, for a medical course?</p>

<p>Thirdly, what are the financial aid options possible for International student doing a medicine course in the US? What about the top ivy league ones, who claim to be need-blind for ALL applicants? </p>

<p>Fourthly, I've heard that medical courses in the US are tres long. 10 years or something, with internship and specialization. But suppose I did a MBBS course elsewhere, then can I get into a graduate school in the US to specialize in a field?</p>

<p>And fifthly, I hate the SAT.</p>

<p>I really want to get into a top college, so is a 700+ score in all 3 sections a must?</p>

<p>As an international student SAT prep is difficult...we don't have good teachers or courses for it. And worse of all, you need good English skills to do well in it. </p>

<p>So if I don't do well in the SAT but I do well in other exams like A levels then will this help my application to a Ivy-league university? Forget about medicine, what about to another course like engineering?</p>

<p>What are my changes of getting in, considering the below qualifications...</p>

<p>I did the SAT subject tests and came up with (after a week of self-study):
800 for maths level 2
770 for chemistry
750 for physics.</p>

<p>I had no idea that time was a problem with the Sat 2. I went in to the exam, without having done a single practice test....ending up leaving a huge chunk of questions blank. I know it's my fault...but then again I had A levels to concentrate on...</p>

<p>Then came the Sat 1...likewise in here I didn't do any practice tests..but just went through the types of questions and some advice, one week before test day. But I knew that I had to do the exam as fast as I can, having had a bitter experience with the SAT 2.</p>

<p>But I ended up with:
790 for Maths.
600 for critical reading.
600 for writing.</p>

<p>I expected this.</p>

<p>Right now I am starting to prepare for another SAT..which I will be taking on OCT 11. I did the SAT practice test on that SAT booklet and after scoring I discovered that I was, other than for maths, I did weakly:</p>

<p>590 for reading
540-620 for writing depending on the Essay score.</p>

<p>So i analyzed my weak areas and found out that I was weak in vocab. I realised that if I wanted to score 700+ for reading, I should memorise the meanings of tonnes of vocab. This is idiotic of the SAT. How come that we need to recognize the meanings of words that would only appear on the SAT exam...not before, not after...just on the SAT?. The SAT is not testing our intelligence but rather how we are prepared for the SAT. I really can't be bothered memorising vocab just to get 700+ on the SAT. What's the use of those words anyway?</p>

<p>That said, I realise that I need a good score to get in. I'll have to do some idiotic studying to get 700+ in reading and writing.</p>

<p>But assume that I got only 1990 for the SAT, will the Ivy-league readers consider me, considering that I've done well in A levels?</p>

<p>Normally people take 4 subjects for AS (first year of A levels) and then they drop one and take 3 subjects for A levels. Oxbridge asks for a minimum of A<em>AA to be considered. A</em>A<em>A would be ideal and give you a 20% chance of getting in. 40% of people studying at Oxbridge, however, have got A</em>A<em>A</em>A*.. That's four subjects.</p>

<p>But I took 6 subjects and got A<em>A</em>A<em>A</em>A*A. Will the ivy-league unis consider this as meritorious or will they ignore this and look to see whether I've got 2200+ in an exam that just requires it's takers to learn tonnes of meaningless vocab and have good English? </p>

2

<p>First, you don’t study medicine after high school in the US. You can study anything you want along with a premed core, then apply to med schools. That’s where the problem is: med schools don’t admit international students (something like 0,01% internationals who applied got in, and most were Canadians and/or didn’t need financial aid.)
Why are you interested in the Ivy league? Just “because they’re famous” is not a sufficient reason… Any Top 25 national university and LAC turns down a majority of extremely qualified applicants.
They would expect 2100 from you on your SAT, as 2100 is bottom 25% for them. They might cut you some slack because of the ALevels but you’d also need to have extraordinary extracurricular accomplishments in any case.</p>

3

<p>.
And if you are applying for FA,(except 6 need blind schools), the chances will be even lower.
Also stop complaining about SAT or other tests. Everyone here doesn’t like SAT.</p>

4

<p>Thank you for the replies.</p>

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<p>I see, you study something like Biomedical Science after high school? Then I guess if I want to study medicine abroad the US in not a choice.</p>

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<p>It is. </p>

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<p>The SAT should be scrapped. It’s a paradox that more and more liberal Arts colleges aren’t recognizing it as an admission test when in fact, the SAT is particularly useful in selecting applicants for such courses. LOL</p>

5

<p>Nope, the SAT should continue to be utilized since the colleges know that there are corrupt education systems around the world, and the only thing that seems to equalize the reported grades, is and are, the national tests. </p>

<p>Let’s face it; most international students intend to make the US their home; otherwise, why would they be so desperate to ask for a free education at one of the ivies? No one likes the tests, but they have to be done. I don’t know which LAC’s you’re referring to, but many of them use the test scores to look at a students’ potential to be successful.</p>

6

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<p>I agree with you, but the SAT is not an unbiased test. It’s not a test of potential or academic ability nor intelligence; it’s heavily biased towards language proficiency.</p>

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<p>Nope. I don’t know about * most * international students, but I simply want a good quality education, and I’ve got no intention of changing homes anyway.</p>

<p>Also, I’m against inequality, colonialism and racism. Take Britain for example. It owes it’s wealth, scholarship and money to all the nations it plundered during colonial times. So one way they could repay is by actually trying to re-develop these lands by educating people there (which they are doing so well)! </p>

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<p>Like a said, can you provide me any stats or anything to prove that SAT scores can be looked at “a students’ potential to be successful”?</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/”>http://www.fairtest.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

7

<p>Yes, read all of the posts by rejected international students. Start collecting your own data by researching where you want to attend, and look at how many students were accepted and rejected. You obviously didn’t do research about medicine in the US and assumed incorrectly that there was a medicine major, as well as assuming that international students get into medical school. (Medical school costs about $300K and there is no funding). You need to do your own research. </p>

<p>Arguing on this post isn’t going to change the universities’ policies regarding the use of tests. Your opinion about not using test scores (because your scores were low), and being unfair, is “whining”. Too bad/so sad. US universities use test scores all of the time, in most classes to grade you. You wont be successful in our universities if your scores are low on the SAT and ACT’s, since competition for grades with students who have scored higher, is fierce and is an indication of your future progress in such classes. </p>

<p>You don’t have to take the tests because you don’t have to be educated in the US. The American universities have no obligation to admit you, whatsoever. That attitude definitely will not gain you any acceptance anywhere. You claim you want a quality education, well in the US, the colleges use test scores to grade you; that’s part of our quality education. There is no guarantee for any student, even US students, to be admitted to American universities, especially if you complain about the methods required to be admitted. So, do yourself a favor and attend your local university so that you wont have to take the SAT’s. Problem solved.</p>

8

<p>The SAT is not a predictor of college success, granted. And indeed it is heavily skewed toward high-level language proficiency, even with the math questions, that favors native speakers (taking the SAT in a foreign language must be a nightmare indeed; that’s why the ACT, with its no-trick/straightforward format, is better suited to non-native speakers in my opinion). And the SAT favors kids who devote hours upon hours to preparing for multiple choice tests, while being harsh on kids who are used to 4-hour/1-question essay tests that require subtlety and a comprehensive reasoning ability, so for highly selective colleges it’s arguably counterproductive.</p>

<p>But that’s the situation, as it is. It’s imperfect and unsatisfactory. But that’s what international students like American students have to deal with.</p>

<p>Now, indeed, if you want to study medicine right after high school, the US isn’t the country for it. Nor is Canada, outside of Québec (but Québec only admits ONE highly qualified, French-speaking international student per post-high school medicine program, ie., 4 students a year.)</p>

<p>In the US, you study whatever you want - philosophy, biochemistry, music, Russian… - along with a premed core. You’re selected based on how well you did in your major and how well you did in your premed core + a SAT-type test that lasts much longer + an interview + your professional experience during those 4 preparatory years – because being a doctor is not just handling science classes well.</p>

9

<p>MYos1634 said everything, but keep in mind,
you don’t need to major in specific thing to get in US medical schools.</p>

<p>For example, you don’t have to major in biology or science to get in medical schools, although majoring in science will make you well-versed.</p>

<p>I found a blog that might help you:
<a href=“US Medical Schools for International Students: US Medical Schools Accepting Internationals”>http://premedusa.blogspot.com/2013/05/medical-schools-admitting-internationals.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>

Yes, there’s a well-established path for foreign-educated medical students to complete their medical training and become licensed physicians in the US. </p>

<p>First you’d take the USMLE Step 1 and 2. They are comprehensive exams on medical theory and clinical skills that all US medical graduates have to pass before they may begin their residency.</p>

<p>Then you’d apply for an ECFMG certificate saying that you’d be ready to enter a US residency program. They will verify your foreign medical degree, check your USMLE scores and ask you to document your proficiency in English.</p>

<p>Then you can participate in the Residency Match Program. If you get accepted (no guarantees because there are more applicants than spots), you can complete a residency in your chosen specialty, which can take anywhere from 3 years (family medicine) to 8 years (neurosurgery) to complete. Once you complete your residency and any other licensing requirements of your state, you can practice medicine as a physician without supervision.</p>

<p>After the residency you can optionally complete a fellowship, which would train you in a subfield of your specialty. For example, you could do a residency in general surgery and a fellowship in cardiothoracic surgery.</p>

11

<p>

Highly selective American universities, including the Ivies, have a “holistic” admission process. Grades and test scores are really only the first step to check if you’re generally qualified to attend. Harvard reports that 90% of their applicants would be qualified to attend.</p>

<p>Beyond that, the highly selective universities are aiming to engineer a vibrant college community. They want some academic superstars (e.g. winners of international competitions or high school students who have done PhD-level work already). They want some athletes and some musicians. They want some rich kids whose parents will be donating lots of money. They want some kids with political connections. They want some kids who’ll be leaders on campus (e.g. leading student clubs). They want some kids who’ll be leaders in the local community (e.g. super passionate about community service). And so on and so forth.</p>

<p>Extra-curricular activities are super important for Ivy admissions. So no, your 6 A* grades will not be a golden ticket to the Ivy league. </p>