[Editor’s Note: the subject was also covered by WSJ here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-grads-doubt-colleges-worth-1443499440]
If it wasn’t worth it, maybe they should have opted for an education that didn’t cost so much.
The page quotes the following:
Extrapolating this to “Two Thirds Of Recent Graduates Say US College Education Is A Ripoff” is misleading at best. Since one third strongly agreed that their university education was worth the cost, that means that the remaining two thirds could include those who agreed (but not strongly) or were neutral on that statement, as well as those who disagreed.
The actual report is at http://www.gallup.com/services/185888/gallup-purdue-index-report-2015.aspx but they want your name, email address, and phone number in exchange.
Totally misleading headline.
- Roughly half of all students at nonprofit colleges strongly agreed that their education was worth the expense.
- If the average debt load was $35,000, then many of the students with debt would not be included in the 2/3 who did not strongly agree that their educations were worth the cost because that figure is only for students with that level of (or presumably more) debt.
- How many merely "agreed" as opposed to "strongly agreed" that their educations were worth it? For all we know every student who did not strongly agreed agreed but not *strongly*.
Do you strongly agree, somewhat agree, neither agree nor disagree, disagree somewhat or strongly disagree with the following statement?
“Poor reporting is highly irritating.”
This is one of my new favorite CCisms.
Ack, I hate it when I don’t catch my typos.
Agree with romani and Sue. This likert scale “survey” is pretty pointless.
Here is the link to the original WSJ article instead of the Zerohedge BS. You have to be a subscriber though to read it.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-grads-doubt-colleges-worth-1443499440
Here is a blurb from the article:
Recent college graduates are significantly less likely to believe their education was worth the cost compared with older alumni and one of the main reasons is student debt, which is delaying millennials from buying homes and starting families and businesses.
The insight into the generational divide comes courtesy of the second annual Gallup-Purdue Index, which polled more than 30,000 college graduates during the first six months of this year.
Former Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels created the survey when he became president of Purdue University in 2013 in an effort to better understand the value of a college education from the people who should know best—alumni.
The steep decline in the perception of whether a degree was worth the cost startled Brandon Busteed, Gallup’s executive director for education and workforce development.
Overall, 52% of graduates of public schools “strongly agreed” that their education was worth the expense, compared with 47% of private-school graduates. Among graduates of private for-profit universities, just 26% felt the same.
About two-thirds of college students graduate with debt, with an average load of about $35,000.
According to the Index, only 33% of alumni who graduated between 2006 and 2015 with that amount of debt strongly agreed that their university education was worth the cost
Click bate title.
Maybe another reason is that recent college graduates do not have access to good job opportunities as compared to what the previous generation did.
Isn’t it true that a generation ago, people still had a decent chance to “make it” (getting into the middle class) even without a college degree, as long as they were willing to work hard? There are now less and less of this kind of opportunity, sometimes even with a college degree! (I also heard this might be a part of the reason why the parents of the young generation have the “education craze” to get their offsprings to elite colleges, or flagship state colleges, hoping to give their loved ones a leg up in overcoming the perceived or real hardship in getting a good job, or at least prevent them from “falling through the crack.”)
Zerohedge is a site that sensationalizes anything negative. It’s mostly populated by doom and gloomers who hoard gold.
It’s not just Zerohedge or the WSJ. The full “report” itself is heavily doctored to reflect political spin. Unfortunate, but perhaps to be expected given that it was commissioned by a politician (Former Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels) now serving as president of a major public research university (Purdue). Disappointing nonetheless.
Gleaning what I can from the limited data presented, a more objective account of the survey might report the following results:
- Nearly 4 in 5 recent (2006-2015) college graduates who didn't borrow agree (29%) or strongly agree (49%) that their education was "worth the cost."
- That percentage falls to 68% among those who took out up to $25,000 in student loans (25% agree, 43% strongly agree).
- Above $25K in loans, alumni satisfaction drops sharply. For those borrowing $25K-$50K, only 58% agree or strongly agree that their education was worth the cost (28% agree, 30% strongly agree). Among those borrowing more than $50K, only 40% agree or strongly agree that their education was worth the cost (22% agree, 18% strongly agree)..
- On the flip side, only 8% of recent graduates who took out no loans disagree or strongly disagree with the proposition that their education was "worth the cost" (4% disagree, 4% strongly disagree), This figure rises, however, with the amount of debt incurred. Among those taking out loans of up to $25K, 15% disagree or strongly disagree that their education was worth the cost (5% strongly disagree, 10% disagree). Among those taking out $25K-$50K, that figure rises to 19% (8% strongly disagree, 11% disagree). And among those taking out $50K + in debt, nearly as many think their education was not worth the cost (36%, of which 18% strongly disagree and 18% disagree that it was "worth the cost") as those who do think it was worth the cost (40%, of which 22% agree and 18% strongly agree that it was "worth the cost"). Generally between 12% and 22% either didn't know or did not express an opinion, with higher levels of uncertainty and/or uncommittedness prevailing at higher levels of debt.
It is also worth noting that this survey includes students who graduated at the depths of the 2008 recession and its aftermath, when job prospects for college graduates (and for just about everyone else) were particularly bleak. To some extent that continues up to the present; it remains to be seen whether sustained job growth will change the equation for recent college grads.
And finally, it is worth noting that the above overall figures are skewed downward by inclusion of responses by graduates of proprietary “for-profit” colleges and universities, who overall report much lower levels of agreement (51%, of which 25% agree and 26% strongly agree) with the proposition that their education was “worth the cost” than graduates of public colleges and universities (80% approval, of which 28% agree and 52% strongly agree) or private non-profit institutions (74% approval, of which 27% agree and 47% strongly agree).
I think these are interesting results. In fact, I think they’re more interesting than the spin-doctored gruel that Mitch Daniels, the WSJ, and Zerohedge want to force-feed us. Fie on them.
Mitch Daniels didn’t write the WSJ or Zerohedge articles, Purdue simply sponsored the survey. It’s the writers looking for a “Hook” that come up with the titles and spin.
Here a link to a better article on the survey, done at The Chronicle of Higher Education:
http://chronicle.com/article/Just-Half-of-Graduates-Say/233453/
The very first graphic is “Graduates’ Views on Whether College Was Worth It”. Overall, 77% “Agree” it was worth it.
The survey is interesting in that it covers alumni feelings about the school and their experience. It’s measuring (soft) outcomes.
The survey measures Alumni Attachment, Well Being (purpose, social, financial, community and physical), and Workplace Engagement.
What’s even more interesting is the school specific results. Gallup is selling this service to colleges (and it’s not cheap), and about 50 colleges have expressed an interest. The chronicle article has links to the results for Arizona State University, Purdue University, the Universities of New Hampshire and Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Western Governors University.
For example, some of Virginia Tech’s results:
http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/documents/2015-08-gallup.pdf
Alumni Attachment:
More than four in 10 (42%) Virginia Tech alumni are emotionally attached to their university, far exceeding the rate among college graduates nationally (18%), as well as the rate among graduates of other research institutions (20%).
Well-Being:
One in six (16%) Virginia Tech alumni are thriving in all five well-being elements, compared with 10% nationally, 11% in other research universities and 12% in SCHEV-approved peer institutions.
Virginia Tech graduates exceed the national average, as well as graduates of SCHEV-approved peer institutions and research universities, in each element of well-being: 60% are thriving in purpose well-being, 57% in social well-being, 56% in financial well-being, 52% in community well-being and 41% in physical well-being.
Workplace Engagement:
Two-thirds of Virginia Tech alumni are currently employed full time for an employer, higher than the national average (58%). Virginia Tech alumni are very unlikely to be unemployed; only 1% are unemployed and looking for work.
Almost half of employed Virginia Tech graduates (46%) are engaged at their workplaces, compared with 39% of national college graduates.
Forty-three percent of alumni agree that Virginia Tech prepared them well for life outside of college, well above the national average of 29% and the average of 28% for other research universities.
So, how happy are Alumni with their experience in college and how has their experience been after graduation?
So are the graduates sorry that they went to college at all or wish they hadn’t chosen expensive schools? If the former, what do they think they would be doing employment wise without a degree? If the second, why did they not opt for a less expensive school? Just asking.
From the Chronicle article:
“Student debt also had other effects. Of recent alumni with more than $25,000 in student debt, 43 percent said it had caused them to delay buying a home, 40 percent said it had delayed their purchase of a car, 27 percent said it had delayed their moving out of their parents’ home, 25 percent said it had delayed their starting their own business, 19 percent said it had delayed their getting married, and 26 percent said it had delayed their having children.”
It looks like the people who didn’t have to incur debt thought college was worth it, while those who had to incur debt thought it was not a worthwhile expenditure. The more debt the student had, the lower their satisfaction ratings. That is understandable as students who had the cost of college paid for them really don’t have an idea of its actual cost. If the student suffered no burden for college because mommy and daddy paid for it, little wonder a majority thinks that it was “worth” it.
I wonder what the responses would be if they surveyed parents who paid full freight to some of these schools.
@bclintonk - “In fact, I think they’re more interesting than the spin-doctored gruel that Mitch Daniels, the WSJ, and Zerohedge want to force-feed us. Fie on them.” That is very close-minded.
Just find the way to graduate without debt. But college is not for everybody. For those who are planning on Grad. School, there is no escape, got to have a 4 year degree and preferably for free or tuition free at least.
Surveys are seldom newsworthy. Maybe they should try to make their point with more real data, rather than the unqualified opinion of a small number of students.
Fareed Zakaria has argued (rather convincingly) that a college education today is the equivalent of a high school degree a few decades ago: without it, you’re not likely to go very far. (as rightly noted by @FallGirl )
He also makes the case that at least 10% or 20% of the US population, despite being capable of handling university, doesn’t apply-and if these people did attend college, the country would benefit tremendously.
And asking students how they “feel” about the value of their education is, as others have pointed out, is a poor metric. It’s like asking people how they “feel” about a mortgage after their first payment arrives. Ask any student who’s seeing his/her paycheck reduced significantly by student loan payments each month, and you’d probably hear them express some misgivings about the expense. If you ask them the same question in 5 years’ time, when the bulk of their debt has been paid off, it’s likely they’ll be a lot happier with the decision to go to college.
@bclintonk - I totally relate to your concern that data, including statistics, can be manipulated to make incorrect points. In fact, people on different sides of an argument can use the same study to make points that are in complete opposition to each other. I haven’t read the article but I’m curious; did you really report objectively or did you also select the data to make an argument that is consistent with your worldview? Sometimes avoiding that trap is difficult.
Well, I didn’t “cherrypick” the data, if that’s what you’re suggesting. There’s very little real hard data in the report that reflects the full spectrum of opinion of those surveyed. I reported what’s there to be reported. Some of it is favorable to colleges, some isn’t. I don’t have a dog in that fight. What I reported can be interpreted as unfavorable to student borrowing; I don’t have a dog in that fight, either. I was somewhat surprised that there was such a sharp bifurcation of opinion between those who hadn’t borrowed or only borrowed moderately, on the one hand, and those who have borrowed heavily. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been surprised. It makes sense, once you think about it, that those whose education is already paid for and those who are not having any trouble repaying their loans would be more likely to regard their college education as having been worth the cost, while those still facing daunting loan repayment obligations might express more doubts on that subject. That neither supports nor contradicts any pre-existing view I had on the subject, because I didn’t have a view; it was a new insight to me, not one of earth-shattering importance as concerns my own life, but something to think about in the context of higher education policy, something I do think about from time to time.
How about these stats? By the way, the data in the Gallup/Purdue report is from Alumni who graduated between 1960 and 2014.
My professors cared about me as a person.
National GPI=27%, Public Universities= 21% Research Universities =16%
I had at least one professor who made me excited about learning.
National GPI=63%, Public Universities= 60.9, Research Universities = 61%
While attending college, I had a mentor who encourage me to pursue my goals and dreams.
National GPI=22%, Public Universities=19.8% Research Universities = 18%
Students are not feeling the love…
The result I find most interesting, is Alumni Attachment.
Emotionally Attached:
National GPI=18%, Public Universities= 17.1% Research Universities=20%
Some examples:
Virginia Tech is at 42%
ASU = 20%
Purdue=30%
Virginia = 31%
New Hampshire=21%