Girl/Guy Ratio and OOS Social Scene

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>Not all fraternities and sororities at UNC are ethnically exclusive (I know the fraternity that my son belonged to was not) but several of them are. Sadly,this is the case at many other schools as well and is even more overt at other “more southern” schools like South Carolina, Bama and Ole Miss but even is pervasive in the Midwest as well. Does this make it right? No, in fact it’s abhorrent but it is not an exclusive to UNC issue and in fact is far less of an issue at UNC than at many other places. You want to see “lilly white?”…look up the Greek scene pictures at other schools…it’s very sad and probably something that isn’t going to change in my lifetime.</p>

<p>Why are you making an issue about the Gimghouls? More importantly, why do you care? Secret societies exist at many schools. They are certainly such a ridiculously small part of UNC that most people don’t even care…if they are even aware of their existence…and they certainly have zero impact on UNC student life.</p>

<p>For those who don’t have any idea about what I am talking about:</p>

<p>[Order</a> of Gimghoul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Gimghoul]Order”>Order of Gimghoul - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>Self-segregation is an issue at almost all US schools, from elementary all the way to the university. However, coming from an NC Public high school that is 80% white (the joke in my APUSH class was that you would never know that the Supreme Court had issued the Brown opinion if you stepped out into the hall during a class change), and where you would think self segregation would be pretty rampant (and is to an extent), I can say that it isn’t much of an issue if you go out and actively seek to meet new people regardless of their race. I have an extremely diverse group of friends, and if you look at who I sit with at lunch, the table is split 50/50 between whites and minorities. </p>

<p>My point is that while self-segregation is an issue for institutions, for individuals it can be overcome by individuals who want to make it work. Just because someone such as kepittoyourself has had these experiences doesn’t mean that everyone will, and from other post here it is pretty clear that everyone doesn’t. An issue that is present at most US universities should not dissuade anyone from going to UNC.</p>

<p>Also as someone else noted, McGill has a large international population, and part of the reason I was attracted to it for a while was because of its location in Montreal, and the diversity such a city brings. However, the Canadian experience with multi-culturism is significantly different than the American experience, and you are unlikely to find something like McGill in the States, and since most American’s do not have the luxury of being dual citizens, going to a Canadian school really isn’t an option for most, and your references to that aren’t really helpful in their determining where they want to go. It may be a good topic for discussion somewhere else, but this is not the right setting to discuss the differences in North American post-secondary education.</p>

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<p>Right, but suppose you are </p>

<p>(a) nonwhite, and
(b) interested in climbing to the very top of the social ladder, for one reason or another</p>

<p>Wouldn’t it be good for you to be warned that this might be tough for you at UNC?</p>

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<p>I would like to know:</p>

<p>a) What college did you previously attend?</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>b) Why did you leave if it is so superior to UNC?</p>

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<p>Why? Why would these facts you people keep asking for (whether I’m foreign, what my race is, where I went before, why I left) make any difference? Surely if the things I’m saying are false, you can point out where they are false. My own identity is totally irrelevant.</p>

<p>More to the point, I’m not asking you to take anything on trust. If anything I’ve said is factually false, then why don’t you point it out? </p>

<p>I never said my previous college was superior to UNC (though in fact, I think it is in many ways).</p>

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<p>It points to your motives about why you are tying to dissuade people from attending Chapel Hill. It might help your credibility a hair, too.</p>

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<p>thank god for you, eadad.</p>

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<p>But surely the point of my previous post is that I don’t need credibility.</p>

<p>I haven’t asked you to take anything on trust, or to take my word for anything. In that case, credibility might matter.</p>

<p>If you think any of my claims are false, then who I am doesn’t matter – just point out where they are false. It is true that (as nobody can deny) the sex ratio is an issue, for example.</p>

<p>And I notice that (plural) you have admitted that many frats/sororities at UNC are racially exclusive. What you didn’t mention is that these are (I think) what are typically considered the ‘top’ fraternities and sororities.</p>

<p>I also said that people should use their own eyes and ears, to look around UNC: do you see racial self-segregation? do you hear people speaking lots of foreign languages, or English with non NC/USA accents? do you see nonwhite people in the ‘top’ fraternities/sororities?</p>

<p>I’m asking you to use your own eyes. You might agree with me, you might not. My own credibility here hardly matters.</p>

<p>And in any case, how would knowing my race or national origin help or hinder my credibility?</p>

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<p>Yes, the gender gap does exist. But it doesn’t define your experience at UNC, as a male or a female.</p>

<p>I think one really key point that you are missing about UNC is that you don’t have to be in a fraternity or sorority to have a social life, which is different from SEC schools where greek life really does dominate the social scene.</p>

<p>I do see self-segregation on campus, but I also so a lot of intermixing as well. As I said before, I’m Asian, and I was invited to see one of my friends “cross” to officially be recognized as a member of his African-American fraternity. I do not consider myself to be an exception to the rule either. </p>

<p>I do hear people speaking lots of foreign languages, be it the workers in the dining halls speaking to each other or students in Spanish or two caucasians practicing Hindi in the Student Union.</p>

<p>And one thing I am grateful for is that the majority of my professors at UNC have no accent, and I’m not being taught by international graduate students.</p>

<p>You still never answered my question about what clubs or groups at UNC are made up primarily of females besides sororities. Or what colleges in the US have a huge international presence of over a third of the student population.</p>

<p>And as far as credibility goes, you’re right, it is not necessary for you to tell us anything about yourself. But, as others have pointed out, it does raise the question why you came to UNC if you were so much happier at your previous college. I think perspectives are very dependent on context and background, and it might help others understand your views of UNC.</p>

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<p>I’m also curious about your assertion that there are more gay men then lesbians in the population.</p>

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<p>Thanks, packerfan89, you are being more rational than some of the other people on here.</p>

<p>I’m not missing the point about fraternity/sorority not being the only way to a social life. But frat/sorority is a popular option, and people who think they might like to join a ‘top tier’ sorority or fraternity deserve to know that if they are not white this might be harder for them at UNC. Or do you think that’s not true?</p>

<p>About clubs at UNC that are made up mostly of girls – some that spring to mind are relay for life and amnesty international.</p>

<p>And I never said that my previous college was in the US, so I don’t owe you an American college with over 1/3 international students. But you might consider:</p>

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<p>UNC simply cannot compete with this. And at the LSE, there are twice as many foreign students as students from Britain. In this league, it is laughable for UNC to claim ‘diversity’.</p>

<p>I don’t see what would be so bad about being taught by international graduate students – provided their English is comprehensible. I do think, though, that the reliance on grad students (of whatever nationality) to teach lots of classes is a way in which UNC (in common with many US colleges) screws over its undergraduate population, teaching-wise.</p>

<p>And for the last time, when did I say I was ‘so much happier’ at my previous college? I was happy there and I’m happy here. On balance, I’d probably prefer my previous place (it is definitely more diverse) but there are good things about UNC too.</p>

<p>As for more gay men than lesbian women, google could help you, but check out</p>

<p>[Independent</a> Gay Forum - More Gays than Lesbians](<a href=“http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/26996.html]Independent”>http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/26996.html)</p>

<p>which refers to a lot of different studies of differing methods and reliability. But especially note the final paragraph:</p>

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<p>I’m not sure where people are drawing the conclusion that he is dissuading people from attending UNC. He has highlighted many times how much he likes UNC in many ways.</p>

<p>There is a difference from just bashing it and making the distinction between very good and perfect, because many students in-state come to this school with this naive thought that it’s “UNC or bust” and it really is the most infuriating thing, because it’s a very pervasive mindset in North Carolina and one that really needs to be put away. I’m willing to put money on the claim that students in North Carolina apply to fewer OOS schools than students in any other state simply because of something like this. </p>

<p>I think if we were really bothered by this truth, we wouldn’t be in attendance here or hopeful to be in attendance here in the near future (me).</p>

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<p>And to those of you wondering why I might move college, have you no imagination whatsoever? Here are a few scenarios:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>I was at Cambridge and got kicked out after failing my first year exams. Since my parents live in NC, I decided to go to UNC.</p></li>
<li><p>I got my undergraduate degree at McGill, but have now decided to go to medical school and have some prerequisites I need to fill.</p></li>
<li><p>I got my undergraduate degree at UCLA, but am now a graduate student at UNC.</p></li>
<li><p>I am an NC native, was enrolled at the LSE, but after the financial crisis hit, my parents could no longer afford it. Rather than take on debt, I decided to come to UNC since it is so cheap for IS people.</p></li>
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<p>I just rolled those off the top of my head, have a bit of imagination will you?</p>

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<p>congratulations… you have hijacked this thread and raised completely irrelevant points that have nothing to do with what high school seniors need to be aware regarding their fit at their future school.</p>

<p>the fact that you made up possible scenarios for us to guess from… all i have to say is you are clearly an awkward person.</p>

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<p>UNC is the flagship school for the state of North Carolina. The residents of North Carolina pay a truly disproportionate amount of their state taxes for higher education, far higher than almost any other state in the US. Because of this, the number of both OOS students and international students is limited mainly because the stated mission of the school is to educate the students/residents of North Carolina. Everyone else is able to benefit from that mission.</p>

<p>The University of Southern California is a private school and can admit anyone they want to as are Columbia, the University of Pennsylvania, Purdue, Boston University and Harvard. The state schools you mention are all larger than UNC and in some cases significantly larger than UNC. Texas has over 61,000 total students with over 50,000 undergrads. In fact the faculty and staff at Texas numbers over 21,000 which is more than the number of undergrads at UNC!</p>

<p>Michigan has over 56,000 total students, and both UCLA and Illinois are over 39,000 students. UNC on the other hand has just under 18,000 undergrads and a total enrollment of 28,916 including grad, Law, Medicine and Health Science. With a school anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 smaller than the the size of any of the public schools you mentioned it is no wonder that the amount of diversity is less at UNC.</p>

<p>Your perspective is very different than that of a typical American HS senior about to head off to school. I am not saying that you are not entitled to your opinion but at the same time you should not be surprised that virtually everyone is having problems with the degree of your criticism because what bothers you really doesn’t bother the typical American teenager, nor is it something they are using as a deciding factor in selecting a school.</p>

<p>I’d even go so far to say that on some other school’s boards you might get flamed for even criticizing the number of international students at a given school since most parents are growing more and more concerned about just how competitive admission to top schools is getting after seeing more and more of their high performing teenagers get denied at their schools of choice.</p>

<p>Additionally I have never seen any metric anywhere that uses the number of international students as a measure of the quality of education that a school offers so I guess you can either deal with it or find a place that better meets your needs and wishes.</p>

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<p>Thank-you for the calm logic eadad.</p>

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<p>Actually, reading the OP, I think we’ve done a pretty good job at staying on the topic. The topic of female/male ratio has gone a bit in-depth, but on-topic nonetheless. I’m not sure where it was said that the thread was about giving advice or some such thing to high school seniors, she asked about two specific things to which have been sufficiently answered. </p>

<p>Agree with eadad on the point of international students – not sure what’s so attractive about having schools having a huge international student population for the reason stated. Or, even why it’s being tossed around.</p>

<p>Sometimes multiple reviews on Student Reviews that share a common problem can be a good indicator. Though, you have to be careful not to blanket the problem to the whole campus population, as one problem never effects everyone. </p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

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<p>Eadad, you are attacking a straw man. This thread has never been about ‘whether UNC succeeds in the way high school seniors are most likely to care about’.</p>

<p>The OP asked, what about these potential issues with attending UNC? And I talked about some issues that I think are relevant: the sex balance, the lack of diversity, and the whiteness at the top of the UNC social scale. These are clearly relevant to the OPs question – I’m not writing a guidebook for insular American highschool students, here.</p>

<p>And you are probably right that highschool students don’t care about the issues I’ve raised – well in that case good for them. But shouldn’t the info be out there, so that the ones who do care have all the views at hand?</p>

<p>And whilst female highschool students may not care about the sex balance, I know from personal experience that after a year or two at Carolina, many of them care about it quite a lot.</p>

<p>It’s slightly dishonest of you to claim that people don’t use the number of international students as a measure of how good a university is, or the education is there.</p>

<p>Firstly, doesn’t everyone go on about ‘diversity’? And aren’t foreign students a part of diversity?</p>

<p>But secondly, when you think about the world’s best universities – Harvard, Oxford, Sorbonne – isn’t part of what makes them great that brilliant people from all over the world go there? And that by going there you get to hang out with people from all over the world? At Carolina you don’t get that so much.</p>

<p>Again, highschool seniors may not care. But probably a fact.</p>

<p>I’m not blaming UNC for not having many international students, or many students from ethnic minorities. As I said way back up at the top of this thread, as a state university they may have little or no choice about that.</p>

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<p>You seem stupid.</p>

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<p>And you seem petty…</p>