Girls and Liberal Arts

Parents Forum
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I was VERY surprised to see that Amherst was 52/48 in favor of males!

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<p>I suspect this reflects the all-male roots of Amherst and several other NE LACs, like Willams, Hamilton, Haverford. My guess is that accomplished young women stand out more in admissions at these colleges than they would at colleges that were originally all-female, like Vassar or Skidmore, or always coed, like Swarthmore.</p>

<p>I'd also like to suggest that the OPs daughter keep an open mind toward women's college's. At many the admissions rates are disproportionately low in relation to the quality of of education, e.g. Barnard, Smith, Holyoke, Bryn Mawr.</p>

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<p>Just 3 years ago, Amherst was 50/50 male/female. Perhaps these things go up and down. Don't worry, you only have one daughter each. At a place like Sarah Lawrence (70% female as I recall) that's more of a consideration. My nephew hoped to have an edge getting into Vassar ED because it's "only" 40% boys, but he didn't.</p>

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<p>"I'd also like to suggest that the OPs daughter keep an open mind toward women's college's. At many the admissions rates are disproportionately low in relation to the quality of of education, e.g. Barnard, Smith, Holyoke, Bryn Mawr."
She's wild about the classics information posted on the Bryn Mawr website, but I can't imagine how we could afford for her to go there. We're those middle class people who look like a lot on paper, but can't come up with 45k per year out of cash or savings.</p>

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<p>Santa Clara University is also an example of a smaller "university".</p>

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<p>Rice is another example.</p>

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<p>During the admission cycle around here, out of the few seniors who applied to LAC's (both boys and girls)most were waitlisted at one or more. The interesting thing that followed (IMHO) was that the 3 or 4 that got off the WL's were boys. My thinking was that the waitlist has become a very good tool for these schools to use in attaining gender balance.</p>

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<p>The enrollment figures for Amherst and similar schools don't tell the real story. A year ago there were 3,379 female applicants to Amherst and only 2,763 males. (610 female acceptances vs. 531 males. Final class=221 F; 212 M). Despite yielding a fairly gender balanced class, there was still a large imbalance A's applicant pool. For a lot of the formerly female colleges--even if they went co-ed 40 years ago--the imbalance in the applicant pool is far more pronounced.</p>

<p>Among LACs, there's a general pattern: the more selective the school, the less the gender imbalance in the enrolled class. The really selective schools can admit enough highly qualified males, but since these guys often have some attractive options, even slightly less selective schools have a hard choice: they have to live with a slight gender imbalance or admit males who are measurably less qualified.</p>

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<p>I am a poster who originally mentioned this, and I can tell you that it's true that boys are being admitted at a higher rate. I know this both as a parent doing research and as a community college professor responsible for transfers of top students. If 60% are getting in, 70% are applying. If you are the discarded 10% that makes a difference. You can find the stats on the skewed admissions if you search hard enough. I think the most egregious example was William and Mary where male admits were 41% and female <28%.</p>

<p>Even given the anecdotal evidence above, Vassar is a place where being male is definitely an advantage. Even Princeton Reviews 366 Best Colleges states that Vassar is serious in its attempts to recruit minorities and males.</p>

<p>Now for question of OP: Your daughter sounds accomplished enough to find acceptance at some school that interests here. If you do not qualify for need based aid, financials are another matter, but if school wants her, merit money will come. </p>

<p>My experience suggests that apart from obvious elements like classics and strong essay your daughter can improve her acceptances by focussing on fit. The young women I know fared best at schools at which they were the perfect fit. This takes a lot of research and reading between the lines of websites and viewbooks. Case in point: D's friend was admitted at Colgate with only 1270 (obviously old scale) SAT's, but as an athlete and someone active in student government she was a perfect match for the school. She tailored her essays to Colgate and was admitted. Another friend had SAT's at least 100 points higher and was a very talented cellist. She had also lived abroad for year (with parents), played varsity softball, and had won school history prize several times. She was rejected from most of her schools. Her LAC choices came down to Skidmore and Dickinson, neither of which excited her or had a student body as academically achieving as she was. Her problem was that she had no focussed identity so she could not select one school (or type of school) and demonstrate how perfect she was for them. Her best shot would have been Middlebury, where she was waitlisted, where she could have stressed her interest in languages (which is now her major), and I think she would have been a good fit for that school, but at the time she was so confused about who she was and what she wanted that she could not have done this.</p>

<p>The story, however, ends well. At the very bottom of her list in terms of desirability, applied to as a somewhat safety, was NYU. She grudgingly went to visit and was enchanted by brownstones, village, Washington Square Park, the usual suspects. She enrolled and has blossomed. She now has a solid, core identity as a sophisticated urbanite, an adorable hairstyle, sartorial flair and her first boyfriend. She is majoring in Romance languages and has been abroad to Italy for a summer program and will go to Spain next next. Her brother joined her at NYU this year, saving the family another agonizing admissions cycle.</p>

<p>To sum up: kids who know themselves, are well-defined, and choose their schools wisely, fare better in admissions. This is particularly true for white, Northeastern girls (NY + suburbs even more particularly) with interest in the humanities.</p>

<p>Schools come to mind with potential for money, but I remember how particular Zoosergirl #2 is in attributes of student body so I shall keep my counsel there.</p>

<p>Of SUNY schools only Bing has classics major. I researched this for my son.</p>

<p>One small correct: Last year Barnard's admit rate was 26%, hardly an admit rate disproportionate to its quality. It had a lower admit rate than Wesleyan or Vassar. This year I believe it is up to 28% again, but still beat Vassar, if not Wesleyan, in selectivity. Not too shabby. The other schools mentioned, however, Bryn Mawr and Smith, both have admit rates of over 40%.</p>

<p>My D did go the women's school route to avoid the experience of her friend, but even at Barnard it was important to have the strong identity she presented. With an admit rate of <30% from a quite self-selected applicant pool a girl from LI needs to know who she is to be admitted to Barnard. Just to give a yardstick: D's friend from the next year's class was admitted to Northwestern but waitlisted at Barnard.</p>

<p>That said, zoosergirl #2 has a strong enough profile to be admitted to many schools. However, strategy is always helpful in this very fraught process. I should probably also say that fit seemed to be the most important element in S's acceptances as well.</p>

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<p>I agree with momrath about keeping an open mind regarding the women's colleges. The one thing they do well is really try hard to make the education affordable. Bryn Mawr (who were the most generous in the FA package my D received), Smith, Mount Holyoke (who also were not slouches when it came to FA) are both 3 schools that give merit within need scholarships. </p>

<p>Mount Holyoke gives a MHC Leadership Award which ranges from 10,000 to 25,000 per year</p>

<p><a href="http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/sfs/7031.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/sfs/7031.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Smith has the Stride & Zollman Scholars (Mini & thedad can further elaborate on this)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.smith.edu/finaid/prospect/aid_merit.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/finaid/prospect/aid_merit.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Bryn Mawr offers trustee scholarships.</p>

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<p>Mythmom and Sybbie, I would like to thank you so much for taking the time to post. All of that information was very, very helpful. As Mythmom alluded, The Devil has some specific opinions and fit will be the most important thing. Obviously, it's early, but she is completely intrigued by Bryn Mawr, so strategy and early planning may be helpful. thank you again.</p>

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<p>zoosiermom:</p>

<p>The only thing you can do is think about what it is that would help your daughter differentiate herself from the pile of applications from northeast white females. College admissions is ultimately a numbers game. Colleges have tall stacks of applications from some groups and short stacks from others. The game is all about identifying colleges where the particular student's background, resume, and interests will put her in a shorter stack of applications.</p>

<p>I agree with dragonmom: Think about college application like the morning commute. If the freeways are jammed in one direction (northeasterners applying to northeast colleges), think about commuting in the opposite direction (apply to some midwest or southern colleges).</p>

<p>Also, the odds don't mean that it is impossible. Plenty of northeast white females get accepted to the top northeast LACs. They just have to present something that stands out from the pack in some way.</p>

<p>Playing up a potential Classics major is a positive. Most schools are really wrestling with declining enrollment in Classics. As a sophmore, your daughter might think about some really interesting extracurricular that would drive home her "passion" for classics.</p>