<p>Hey guys, I just read this really great article in the NYT (frontpage) about how adolescent girls receive conflicting messages in highschool. On the one hand, we now have the freedom to do everything boys do, which is anything we want; get good grades, the lead in the play, perfect scores, get into the Ivy League, be athletic, student body president; and then the traditional highschool desire to relax and have fun and rebel. I know from personal experience the trauma that can result when trying to navigate highschool as a girl who feel pressure from both ends. Anyway, thought it was interesting. I think this is also a situation that is specific to girls. If you want to hear more, read it or ask me...</p>
<p>I'm not sure why everything you mention is girl-specific. Guys definately want to "relax and have fun and rebel" just as much as their female counterparts, and certainly feel pressured by the college admissions process as well...</p>
<p>to me, the conflict seems to come more from the way our society is forcing kids to "grow up", as it were, faster. It's EXPECTED now that we have to take college-level courses (APs, anyways) if we want to even have a shot at getting into a competitive college. Whatever happened to plain old high school classes? And what are we expected to do during our summer VACATIONS? If we didn't get a head start with research internships and other prestigious academic/leadership activities, we'd be falling behind the curve</p>
<p>I daresay that all of this wasn't always the case. To me, the conflicting messages are coming from the new realities of high school life...</p>
<p>It's certainly hard for boys but what the OP is saying (or at least what I think) is that girls have uniquely different issues in high school...now we're being pushed to succeed just like boys, maybe even more so than boys, unlike in the past...but we're still expected to be feminine.</p>
<p>Contrast that article with the recent thread by DontGiveUp in High School Life (Featured thread: Feel rejected after getting rejected?) and you get a better sense of perspective. Compare your idea of "trauma" to that reality of "trauma" and see which story is more deserving of a New York Times article.</p>
<p>ninja - You're comparing apples and oranges, and I think the poster in the thread you mentioned is doing the same. It's an inspirational story, but that doesn't mean that ours aren't. </p>
<p>I think this is an interesting subject. A lot of girls are pushed towards traditionally male-dominated fields, with everyone telling them they can now have everything. Only, once they get there, they find out that they really can't do it all and be feminine. For example, top corporate positions probably don't have great maternity leave policies. Taking time off means that they lose money. I do think that the dynamic is shifting towards better policies and an environment more accepting of different types of success (and a questioning of why it currently emulates traditionally male characteristics), but we're definetly not all the way there yet.</p>
<p>If you're interested in this kind of thing, I'd take a look at the book "Female Chauvinist Pigs" by Ariel Levy. She makes some good points.</p>
<p>"Compare your idea of "trauma" to that reality of "trauma" and see which story is more deserving of a New York Times article."</p>
<p>Except... I don't think that the OP was ever calling this a 'trauma,' or even implying that it was. I think that was an unfair response on your part.</p>
<p>I know what you mean. There's definitely a double standard.</p>
<p>...and guys are expected to keep up with girls and yet still remain masculine. </p>
<p>I really don't know what you're getting at. Many top schools (and even lower schools) are female majority. On average girls get better grades. We're the ones that are forced to keep up, not vice versa. I read the NYT article and it struck me as somewhat silly</p>
<p>LesOs - "Except... I don't think that the OP was ever calling this a 'trauma,' or even implying that it was."
OP - "I know from personal experience the trauma that can result"</p>
<p>I think we're all exceptionally privileged. Suck it up. Those on this forum who quest for perfect resumes and get so caught up in the admissions game lose some perspective. This perspective is what I was going for in my first post. I didn't mean to imply that social pressure is comparable to war.</p>
<p>Cowgirl - Corporate maternity leave policies? If a man wanted to take an extended leave of absence to care for a child, that wouldn't be allowed either. Women choose whether to have children and should accept that some possible sacrifices must be made to accomodate that decision. Sacrifices like these..."Aliza (who had also been staying in on Fridays and Saturdays to do homework) pointed out: ‘I’d rather get into college.’ "</p>
<p>My read from the article was that it portrayed girls as lacking in confidence. Maybe that's the case, maybe it's not, but if women are truly striving for societal equality, articles like these are as detrimental as they are pejorative. "Peter Martin, the girls’ cross-country coach, says girls try so hard to please everyone — coaches, teachers, parents — that he bends over backward not to criticize them."</p>
<p>I apologize- I should have read the post more carefully...</p>
<p>I still think that you may have been a bit too critical of the OP, though. I think she was just trying to spark a conversation, not claim that her 'hardships' as a female student were as terrible as those of DontGiveUp (although the use of the word 'trauma' might suggest otherwise... but I think that the tone of the entire post was more ... curious than whiny.)</p>
<p>I wasn't being whiny. I was just discussing something that interested me, it's natural. There is a double standard when it comes to girls' vs. boys' behavior. When a boy acts out, it's "boys will be boys." When a girl acts out it's not O.K. I'm really not complaining, I'm just stating the facts. That wasn't a value judgement.</p>
<p>"Trauma" can mean different things. Trauma resulting from killing someone else (which, of course, was not his fault...) vs. trauma resulting from anorexia of the soul ARE two different things and I hope you are thoughtful enough to distinguish.</p>
<p>I said that you sounded curious, NOT whiny =)</p>
<p>'Anorexia of the soul.' That's quite a phrase, there. Heh.</p>
<p>oh haha, wow, i'm sorry, i read that incorrectly. i'm glad you don't think I'm whiny then.</p>
<p>ps- that's not my phrase, it's from the article. isn't it great? lol</p>
<p>Ninja - I was simply pointing out an obvious double standard. Why is it that men can have a family and a career but women have to choose? Biology plays a factor, but should it? I'm not talking about mat leave in terms of taking 5 years off to care for the baby, but in the simplest sense - we need time off to give birth, obviously, and recover. Men will never have that "luxury".</p>
<p>We've been telling girls that they can do anything, and furthermore, (which is what I think the article was getting at) that they should be able to have and do everything - only to rip that out from under them at the end of the day with a forced "choice". Where's the choice to have it all? Why isn't that an option for women? It's expected of us, yet almost unattainable in the context of past and even current policies.</p>
<p>yeah i agree men rule.</p>
<p>keep in mind that newton north, the school that the article is written about, is in a VERY rich and privileged area. the school is well-funded and the school offers a wide variety of interesting, impressive courses. the kids are raised to go to top schools. often, one or both parents have attended "elite" schools.</p>
<p>i would have prefered to read an article that used more than one sample school. high-achieving girls at newton north would most likely have a different experience and perspective than high-achieving girls at underfunded urban schools.</p>
<p>The OP wasn't whiny but the article, from my reading, was. I'd be all in favor of more forgiving maternity leave but jobs that are high level and competetive may not be able to be so forgiving. It's halfway sexist and halfway capitalist. Some men can "have it both ways" with a successful career and a good home life, but that is not the status quo. Until same-sex marriage is legalized, the staggering US divorce rate affects everyone. Some of these divorces are caused by long hours at a job.</p>
<p>The generalizations that some of y'all are making are a bit misguided. "When boys act out..." isn't a statement of curiosity, it's a statement of fact, and it's incorrect. Is that boys in general or boys from Newton North? How are you in a position of expertise? When I did stupid stuff growing up, I wasn't brushed off with a smile and a nod, and neither were my male friends. </p>
<p>Assuming this "anorexia of the soul" is the case for every high achieving girl from every demographic district in the country, what's the solution? Do we lower admissions standards because, as some would say, girls can't hack it in high school? That certainly goes against everything I was taught growing up. This pressure on girls from over-represented geographic areas and wealthy areas is the status quo right now. Consider it a test, a little adversity to build character. We have been telling girls they can do anything, and they are. There are latent ramifications to doing anything and everything like not having time to go out on weekends. </p>
<p>I did a little creative investigation to help show the lives of these girls. Some of you may think it's creepy, but I have no qualms. Esther Mobley (who can "expound on the beauty of the subjunctive") lives in a home worth at least $592,000. It's good to know that if she can spare the time, she can afford some counseling for her "anorexia of the soul."</p>
<p>Cowgirlatheart - Men do have advantages but women have choices too. Don't want to take time off at birth? Adoption. Want your blood and guts as a kid but still don't want to take time off? Hire a surrogate. Want to place your career before your family? Contraception.</p>
<p>Hey, Ninja, you bring up good points that test my opinions. I should've been more specific. It's true that the article was a little silly and biased. It appealed to me so much because I can relate.</p>
<p>I live to serve :-P</p>
<p>What <em>killed</em> me was the multimedia section. The Esther girl is taking 2 APs. 2! Most of my friends (myself included) take 6-7 our senior years.</p>