Give me the BRUTAL truth...

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I was just denied by Princeton early action and now I'm not sure what to do. Since I wasn't even deferred, I'm questioning whether I had any business applying at all. That being said, I'm not sure how strong my resume is and which colleges it would be appropriate for. So, here it is:</p>

<p>GPA
3.85</p>

<p>ACT
34
Math: 31, English: 34, Reading: 36, Science: 35</p>

<p>SAT Subject
U.S. History (720), Literature (620)</p>

<p>AP Classes - 5 total (Test score)
European History (5), U.S. History (5), Psychology (?), English Literature and Composition (?), English Language and Composition (?)</p>

<p>Extracurriculars</p>

<p>Student Council President (12), Class President (9,11, runner-up 10)
Yearbook editor-in-chief (12), designer (9,11)
National Honor Society (Member)
Beta Club (Member)</p>

<p>Sports
JV Soccer (10)</p>

<p>State residence
SC</p>

<p>Mother's education
Master's Degree</p>

<p>Father's education
Doctorate</p>

<p>Household income
$144,000</p>

<p>Fluent in
English</p>

<p>Disability
Type 1 diabetes, depression, and anxiety</p>

<p>High school type
Religious School</p>

<p>High school difficulty
My school is the best in this area</p>

<p>Application essay quality
Very good; about how being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes helped me find my purpose in life</p>

<p>Teacher evaluations
Very good</p>

<p>Honors/Awards
None really</p>

<p><strong><em>Thank you very much!</em></strong></p>

2

<p>The brutal truth is that you were an applicant like the thousands of others Princeton receives with stats such as yours. You failed to stand out, possibly because of cookie-cutter essays or poor recs. </p>

<p>Your stats are pretty standard for Princeton, but your ECs look a little weak. I would say that you definitely had a chance if luck, essays, and recs were all on your side. Unfortunately, at least one of those was not.</p>

<p>If I would venture a guess, it was because of your essays. Unfortunately, writing about illness/family tragedy is trite. So many people discuss it that the topic loses its sting, unless if the family tragedy is incredibly tragic and the writer played a pivotal role in abating it. (Dad died in Afghanistan, brother is autistic, so mom became depressed and lost her job and I had to work to support the family. I started a business that my autistic brother is able to run and make enough money for the family.)</p>

3

<p>You fall short in certain areas: SAT subject tests, ACT Math, EC’s, JV soccer and not varsity. Princeton just moves on to the next applicant as there is nothing showing an exceptional individual. You are a good student, but that’s not everything. A savvy counselor might have told you to apply ED at a lesser place and that rejection at Princeton was likely.</p>

4

<p>mtbozeman</p>

<p>There are many many schools that would be happy to have a student of your quality. One thing that I would suggest is not mentioning anxiety or depression in your application unless there’s a strong reason to do so. Schools are leery of students who might not be able to adjust to college and focusing on anxiety or depression might concern them.</p>

<p>I don’t know if you need financial aid, but here are some schools I would suggest:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>McGill–excellent, large school in a great city that’s approximately half the cost of comparable US schools. The application doesn’t require essays and I believe that if you send in your ACT score, you don’t need to send in your SAT subject tests.</p></li>
<li><p>University of Michigan–it’s getting late to apply to Michigan, but it’s a great school and a little cheaper than comparable private schools.</p></li>
<li><p>University of Rochester–I think that Rochester would be very happy to have a student of your quality and be interested in someone from SC–you would probably get some merit money here.</p></li>
<li><p>Vanderbilt–I’m sure you’re familiar with this school, but it has strong programs in many many subjects.</p></li>
<li><p>Boston College–I don’t know what religion you are, but if you were interested in a catholic school, BC is a good school located in a great city.</p></li>
<li><p>Tulane–once again, you would probably get some merit money from this school.</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell–it’s not easy to get into, but you have a chance and if you’re interested in an ivy, this might be your best bet RD. Some of Cornell’s schools are state-chartered and so they are less expensive, if you can make a case for wanting to apply.</p></li>
<li><p>Wake Forest–if you wanted to stay in the south, you might consider Wake Forest–excellent academics, strong undergraduate teaching.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Honestly, there are many, many schools you could apply to–it depends on your tolerance for writing essays, whether you want to be in a city, are you willing to attend a very large school etc. Also, if you haven’t visited some of these schools, they’re more likely to understand that fact if you live far away, so from that standpoint, schools in the northeast might be better bets.</p>

5

<p>Thanks to all of you, especially @midatlmom. You gave me some options and now I’m feeling a little more optimistic :slight_smile: Best of luck to your family</p>

6

<p>I would not go Wake or Cornell nor Davidson-- academics are cut throat (as are Princeton’s) not really a supportive environment if you have anxiety, if anything it increases it. Kids with higher scores and more don’t get into Princeton- son’t take it personally. </p>

<p>You are an excellent candidate for so many top notch schools- You could get big merit $ from GWU, or be a contender for $ at U of Richmond. Is it too late for UNC Chapel Hill? or UVA? Big name recognition, closer to home which I recommend big time! It’s nice to be at the top of the heap in the academics & your peers would not be too shabby.</p>

7

<p>What schools other than Princeton were already on your list? What were you considering as safeties and matches?</p>

8

<p>To respond to midatlmom’s list, I guess UMich is a little less expensive - $52K for the first two years vs. $55K for some privates, but then it goes up to $55K/year. Tulane is a good option. Cornell’s state chartered schools are helpful for NY state residents, not OOS students.</p>

9

<p>I’ll respond too.</p>

<ol>
<li>McGill used to be cheap but not any more - $30K US tuition. Cold and damp from St. Lawrence River. Drinking age is 18!</li>
<li>Michigan is actually more expensive than some private universities like Princeton, Rice and Caltech. </li>
<li>Rochester is a grim place with lousy weather and not appropriate for someone from the South with 3.85 GPA and 34 ACT.</li>
<li>Vandy - good choice and likes high test scores.</li>
<li>It should be Georgetown U and not BC. An obvious mix up of Catholics.</li>
<li>Tulane - merit money possible</li>
<li>Cornell - No part of Cornell is “state chartered” It’s a private university that operates “contract” colleges for SUNY. Full price in any division for a SC resident. Admission statistics are deceptive from lumping all divisions together. Arts & Sciences is most difficult of all.</li>
<li> Wake Forrest - How about Emory and/or Duke instead?</li>
</ol>

<p>I agree with livesinnewjersey : “a contender for $ at U of Richmond. Is it too late for UNC Chapel Hill? or UVA?” </p>

<p>OP might have gotten into William College ED if he had a GC that knew what he was doing. Williams and other LAC’s are still possible. Middlebury is also good for people who like rural. LAC’s outside of New England that are easier to be admitted at are Carleton and Reed. Both are just are good as the top New England ones.</p>

<p>What does OP want besides Princeton?</p>

10

<p>Carleton and Reed are less selective than P’ton but still selective. My 2 DDs applied to one each and both were waitlisted with slightly better stats than the OP.</p>

11

<p>Rather than have us randomly suggesting schools tell us where else have you applied and some basic parameters.</p>

<p>The brutal truth: </p>

<p>Michigan would probably be a yes but with no aid beyond loans.
Georgetown is only marginally “easier” to get into that Princeton so still a reach
BC easier than Georgetown but notoriously stingy with aid.
Tulane probably a yes with merit aid</p>

<p>Richmond is a good suggestion. Consider Villanova, Carnegie-Mellon (though a reach if you’re engineering), Indiana-Bloomington (Pbly some nice aid there) and possibly USC (the one in Los Angeles)</p>

12

<p>I’d look at Grinnell and Macalester instead of Carleton. Similar vibe but slightly less selective than Carleton and both offer merit. One is rural/small town and the other is urban. The top NE LACs don’t offer merit aid so if that’s important, they are probably not a fit.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Huh??? Why??? I guess I’d better let my middle son know this as he has higher stats and loves the place as a freshman… </p>

<p>With a 96% freshman retention rate, I imagine there are many students there that probably share my guy’s opinion rather than yours…</p>

<p>BUT, I think it’s too late to apply and get merit aid there. The OP would need to check to be sure.</p>

<p>I agree with pretty much any of the suggestions on here, but it will depend upon what the OP wants to study IMO.</p>

14

<p>While everyone who has posted here has been helpful, the suggestions seem kind of random without knowing more about what the OP is looking for. Surely he or she didn’t have a college application list that began and ended with Princeton!</p>

15

<p>Creekland - I thought that comment in #9 about U. Rochester was a bit harsh. The campus itself is beautiful, it used to be an arboretum so there are trees everywhere. And yes, it does get cold in the winter of course. The surrounding area is urban, so not ideal for some students. But that is true of many urban campuses. If students/parents from the South are concerned about any urban college in the northern states, they should try to make one visit during the winter months if at all possible.</p>

<p>^^^Agreed. Without knowing more about what the OP is looking for, any suggestions will seem a bit random. There must be dozens of very good schools that would be a match for the OP.</p>

16

<p>I have applied to Furman, Duke, and Georgetown but I’m not sure where else to apply. I’m considering Vanderbilt ED II (still too much of a reach?). Also, I want to major in political science, want a fairly liberal climate at the school, and do not want to go west of Chicago. Thanks for the replies so far!</p>

17

<p>Depending upon how liberal you want the school, you might want to really look at Furman and Vandy. Those are often recommendations for those who want more conservative schools. George Washington and American are popular choices for Poly Sci lovers (Georgetown too, but you already have that one). Otherwise, Columbia could be a good choice to consider.</p>

18

<p>Is writing your common app essay on illness really that bad? I wrote about getting diagnosed with an autoimmune disease similar to the OP. However, I’m applying to LACs. Now you guys have me worried… I don’t want to jack the thread so maybe someone could message me.</p>

19

<p>Have you talked to your parents about how much they’ll pay each year? They have a highish income and won’t qualify for much/any aid at most schools…especially OOS publics.</p>

20

<p>You’ve gotten some great input so far - I especially like the suggestions of Tulane, Richmond, Rochester, and American. CMU and Wake are decent ones too.</p>

<p>Applying to Furman is probably a good move, and I’d be very surprised if you didn’t get in. Georgetown A&S is highly selective but doable; Georgetown SFS is more of a reach.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids’s point about cost is an important one. UNC and UVA provide financial aid to OOS students, but I’m not sure how good of a package you’d get with that level of income.</p>

<p>Liberal Arts Colleges
Bowdoin is worth consideration if you’re willing to go small. It has the arguably the best political science program among LACs, its financial aid is generous, and it attracts many of the same type of students as Princeton. It’s highly selective, but you have a good shot. Though it’s test-optional, I think your high ACT score will help you. </p>

<p>I agree with rhg3rd…Davidson and most of the top northeastern LACs (e.g. Haverford, Hamilton, Trinity, etc.) are within your range and tend to have at least decent poli sci programs.</p>

<p>Washington & Lee has the biggest/best merit scholarships of the top LACs, and students are traditionally highly successful at getting banking and government jobs. It’s relatively conservative for a top college, though, which may be a deal-breaker for you.</p>

<p>For a safety, take a look at Dickinson. Dickinson has a strong international focus and very good programs in public policy, IR, and related fields. Hobart & William Smith has similar strengths but is slightly weaker and less selective. You’d be in the running for merit scholarships at both. </p>

<p>Other LACs with reasonably generous merit aid include Rhodes, Denison, Wooster, and Trinity (TX). I don’t think any of them is especially strong in political science, but they’re all solid colleges.</p>

<p>Universities
Among the highly selective universities, Rice would be worth a look - still very selective, but less so than Princeton and slightly less so than Duke. Liberal leaning, small student body, and very happy students. Also take a look at Hopkins, Emory, Tufts, and maybe Brandeis. </p>

<p>If you can handle a larger school, Pitt has strong political science and policy programs, and you’d be in the running for a merit scholarship. </p>

<p>UGA would make a good safety, I think. You’d almost certainly get an OOS tuition waiver and I wouldn’t be surprised if you received a merit scholarship and/or admission to the honors college. Political science is good, and public policy is exceptionally strong.</p>