Given these shortcomings, do I still have a chance?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hello College Confidential,

I’m currently a junior at a private preparatory school. After a long and challenging road to get where I am (I have a sundry of learning disorders), I’m now striving to gain admission into a few distinguished schools. My dream choices are Cornell and Princeton, but at the moment I have a few concerns about my admission chances.

Throughout my three years of high school, I haven’t taken a single AP course. Up until last year, I didn’t even know what they were. I suppose I’m lucky about the fact that my school only offers 5 AP courses between junior and senior years, but I’m still concerned that I haven’t taken any. I am enrolled in two honors courses, though, and plan to take APs next year. Below are my grades across three years listed on the 100 GPA scale (which is what my school uses). Freshman year was particularly challenging for me by reason of my HS being considerably more rigorous than my previous special needs middle school. I do hear that schools like Princeton don’t consider freshman grades, though, which could work in my benefit:

9th grade: 81 GPA (no honors/APs)
10th grade: 95 GPA (no honors/APs)
11th grade: 94 GPA in 1st semester, 95 in 2nd so far (2 honors/no APs)
Ideal 12th grade enrollment: 2 honors courses, 2 APs

I ended freshman year determined to find success at my new school. My academic years were always replete with failure and I desperately wanted that to change. I thank God that it did.
With respect to my SAT scores, I haven’t yet taken the test, but I plan to in August/September and then again in October/November to meet the Early Action deadline. There’s a good shot the test will be optional next year, but I’m still studying regularly for it. My score range is currently in the 1200s (500M 700EBR/W) but I believe it will get to a 1500+ provided I work diligently.

As for ECs, I really only started involvement this year, though in sophomore I did belong to one club that is listed below:

9th grade: No ECs
10th grade: Peer tutoring club member
11th grade:

  • Founder of Debate Society, which I created with the object of allowing students to elucidate their views in methodical fashion. We have enrolled over 15% of my school class.
  • Member of and contributor to school’s award-winning magazine
  • Member of Poetry Club, which I have avidly participated in
  • Submissions in school newspaper
  • Scheduled to participate in community service over summer in NYC
    12th grade projection: Continued enrollment in foregoing clubs, addition of one or more clubs

Awards:

9th grade: No awards
10th grade: Deans List, Spanish 10 department award, Science 10 department award
11th grade: Deans List, likely to receive department awards once again
12th grade: N/A

Class rank: 19/65 with freshman grades included, likely to be top 10 if they are omitted.

So… am I royally screwed even with the potential SAT score and 12th grade AP projections, or am I still in the running if I manage to fulfill these goals?

Honesty is all I’m looking for. I welcome all constructive replies.

Thanks!

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I am wondering why you are interested in Cornell and Princeton. A top ranked university such as these two is going to be stressful. Reading your post, these are not the first two schools that come to my mind.

I think that you should think about what YOU want in a university, and then find some schools that fit this.

Have you thought about liberal arts colleges?

I think that you are on track to do well. However, I think that the two things to focus on is to think about how much stress you want to take on in a university, and what type of college or university is the right fit for you.

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Thank you for the reply.

Now that you mention it, I have actually considered some liberal arts colleges. Wesleyan is the first that comes to mind as it is the one closest to me and I do love Connecticut.

Be that as it may, Princeton’s campus is nothing short of wondrous, and with its relative proximity to my city (New York), I think it’d be amazing - and that is without taking into account the quality of its curriculum.

All the same could be said of Cornell, with the exception of its proximity to NYC.

I’m not limiting myself to these two universities. I do feel, however, that attending one or the other would be an unforgettable experience, and would really indicate how far I’ve come since nearly being left back two grades in middle school, and nearly failing freshman year.

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I’ll let you in on a little secret- there are about two hundred colleges which would be an “unforgettable experience”. Sure- apply to your two reaches (they are reaches for everyone) and then pivot to finding a couple of schools you love just as much, which are statistically easier to get into, and where they will roll out the red carpet for you!

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The beauty of the architecture has little to do with college experience, compared to what happens on the classroom.

Fact is, you really know neither about either Princeton or Cornell, and your entire vision of these colleges is based on some dreamlike idea, which likely has little to nothing to do with reality.

Students should pick colleges, based on fit, and while “fit” is not always easy to define, it is certainly not “I love the architecture, and it’s very prestigious”.

In your entire post, there is absolutely nothing about what you are looking to get from college, what you would need to succeed in college, what sort of social and academic life you would like.

Your post is all about “will Princeton and Cornell love me?”,

I see very little about why you actually love them. The “Princeton’s campus is nothing short of wondrous” is no better than saying “I want to date that person because I think that they are cute and famous. I know nothing else about them, nor do I know whether I could even stand their personality, pastimes, and friends.”

You are selling yourself short, and putting external features ahead of factors which would contribute to your success.

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OP: Whatever factors excite & motivate you should be given substantial consideration.

Nevertheless, one should not ignore reality.

An SAT score in the 1200 range is unlikely to be competitive for admission to either Princeton or Cornell, and a class rank outside of the top 25% is almost sure to make both schools unrealistic options.

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You are a good writer and those schools may appreciate that. On the other hand, it seems like you are just not in range for admission. As people have implied, get back to the basics and make a school list that starts with the 3k schools and narrows things down based on your wants and needs.

If you like the northeast and mid atlantic that is a start, but what else? Do you want to be near a city like “sort-of” with Princeton and Wesleyan, or prefer a Cornell setting? Do you need anything specific “for your sundry of learning disorders?” Are you truly looking for smaller schools, but is your attraction to the ivy league getting in the way? Ask your college counselor what is really your competitiveness range? Given the information you shared, I am thinking Skidmore and Trinity-level liberal arts colleges and not the ones you named. Anyway, good luck and hope you get what you want.

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The beauty of the architecture has little to do with college experience, compared to what happens on the classroom. Fact is, you really know neither about either Princeton or Cornell, and your entire vision of these colleges is based on some dreamlike idea, which likely has little to nothing to do with reality. Students should pick colleges, based on fit, and while “fit” is not always easy to define, it is certainly not “I love the architecture, and it’s very prestigious”.

Perhaps I should’ve included my intended profession after college. Ultimately, I’d like to become the owner of a design-build firm. I love and appreciate architecture and wish to develop some structures of my own.

Thus, the reason I pointed out the beautiful campuses of the schools goes without say. That campus, at least for me, is very much part of the “college experience.”

You’re right about the prestige. In my credentials I want nothing more than the name of an exceptional school. We should all want and strive for that. Nonetheless, despite what seems to be your impression of me, the most significant desire of mine is to learn. I want to be as versed in my field of study as I possibly could, and it would seem that the name and prestige of any given university aligns with the quality of education they offer.

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Thanks for the reply.

I’m well aware that a 1200 undoubtedly falls short of the SAT score requirements at these schools. My goal is to improve by at least 300 points by August, and if not at that time, then by November at the latest.

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Thanks for clarifying. I bet you know an architecture major is an excellent way to narrow down a school list. Eliminate less competitive colleges, choice your area of country - and share that list since it will not be so big. This crowd can help you from that point on.

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Would you mind pointing out the things I could improve on and what it is that makes me ineligible?

The SAT scores, for instance, are obviously too low. It is important to consider the potentiality of these schools being test-blind next year. Nonetheless, I need to get them up.

My area of particular concern is with AP courses. I will really need to enroll in some next year.

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You’re absolutely right, and I have every intention of doing this. Thanks!

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Not sure I used the word ineligible.

  1. Grades
  2. Courses
  3. Scores
  4. Extras

Each would need to improve at some level, but hope I am wrong. I would suggest you do what I am advising. It will really help you. And from experience, you never give a college list considering a major SAT jump - not that the 1500, by itself, would change my opinion.

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Thanks. I think I had in mind Princeton’s policy on freshman grades when listing it as a possibility. They don’t even consider those grades, which in turn leaves my current GPA at a 4.0 unweighted and my class rank somewhere around the top 10-15%. Of course, Cornell and others are different stories.

Course rigor is an area of real concern for me. I’ve only taken 2 honors hitherto and no APs. I did mention in the post that my school only offers 5 AP courses (2 in 11th and 3 in 12th), meaning that I could take some next year. Would that help my chances?

I agree with you on scores. Bottom line is they need to go up, and unless these schools go test-optional once more, a low score will really hurt my chances. I’m working on it.

As far as ECs go, I’ve heard from Princeton alums that two or three clubs/causes you are passionate about goes the farthest way when applying. I’ve started my school’s Debate Society and am an avid member of several other clubs. Next year, I hope to start another.

I guess I’m just wondering what it is in particular that I could do to better my chances of admission. My SAT score is an obvious area of concern, but if I increase it, take some AP courses next year and pursue another cause, could I increase my chances of getting in one of these?

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That is a hard one for me to answer because I don’t know you well. I am usually not this blunt, but I am reasonably sure you are focusing on the wrong schools. Your rank, by itself, will likely eliminate you unless you go to one of the very top private schools in the nation. IMO you are hearing what you want to hear - and that sets people up for a big letdown.

On the high end, look at Tufts. In the middle, look at Northeastern and to be safe consider Sarah Lawrence and Hobart. Good luck!

17

300 points is a HUGE jump, so I don’t think you can count on it, especially given that you are already a second semester junior. Your math score needs to be significantly better if you are aiming to do architecture.

Even if you go test-optional, there’s still the problem of your transcript. Top 30% rank isn’t going to cut it. To be competitive, you need to be in the top 10% or better, unless your school is an Andover or Deerfield. Also, you are yet to take an AP class. This will add to your problem because, by the time you apply, the colleges won’t know how you would perform in a AP level class.

Your ECs are also not competitive for the Ivies. To be competitive, you need to have accomplishments beyond school clubs. For example, getting nationally ranked as an athlete, becoming an ISEF semi finalist, publishing an article in your local newspaper, starting your own successful business, etc. You mention you are into poetry, if you win a scholastic award, then we are talking. Or even better, placing in a national level architecture competition.

I would suggest that you expand your list to include more lower ranked schools.

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Lets say I’m applying to Princeton. I go test-optional, since it is certainly a risk to bank on a 300+ jump on the SAT (and also because my father suffers from heart disease and I don’t want to risk contracting the virus, which is the reason I’m learning remotely).

Because Princeton doesn’t consider freshman year grades, my GPA moves to a 4.0 unweighted and my class rank goes within the 10% range.

I take 2 AP courses in the 12th grade, but since I won’t receive my test scores in time, I enroll in a top college course this summer to demonstrate my capability.

Since my extracurriculars aren’t anything exceptional, lets say my school’s Debate Society (which I founded) debates on a national level this or next year, and I submit an article or two into a prominent newspaper.

Would, at this point, my chances be significantly better? This is the least risky route I could take, and it is certainly possible to manage.

19

Your class rank is not going to change because a college doesn’t consider freshman grades. Your high school calculates your class rank. A college does not have the ability to recalculate it because they don’t know all the grades of all of your classmates. They will use the class rank as reported by your high school.

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Sure, your chances would certainly improve if these things actually happen. But you need to be realistic too. We are still in the pandemic, so are national competitions going to happen? Even if they do, is your inexperienced team going to win? You can submit, but will the “prominent newspaper” publish your articles (unless you have connections)?

Even if Princeton doesn’t consider freshman yr grades, that still doesn’t change your rank. Your hs calculates rank and that’s what goes on your transcript. Without a test score, your rank becomes more important. Taking summer courses and doing well is good. Just be aware that most colleges see AP classes as harder than dual-enroll college classes.

Anyway, my point is to try to look beyond the Ivies/T20s. They are reaches for everyone. Good luck!

21

You are correct, although given the fact that Princeton doesn’t consider freshman grades, couldn’t I explain that my freshman grades were responsible for dramatically reducing my class rank?

I think the fact that my school is a top prep school in NYC could also help, but I don’t want to draw much attention to that.