<p>originaloog--you are forgetting she's got a full scholarship right now. To walk away from that would be incredibly shortsighted. I agree with you on the fact that she should give this a shot if it is her dream, but she should do it AFTER she completes her BA. It's only two more years and at least some of that time she's has the opportunity to study in Europe--if that is paid for as well then I just think it's insane to toss it over the side for the fact that NYU is telling her she can PAY THEM to study something that has such low odds of giving her a decent return on her investment.</p>
<p>I guess to me Large Debt is the true dream crusher later in life.</p>
<p>eloise,
What ever happened when your neighbor returned?</p>
<p>I think some here are overlooking a bigger point- not really just "is it smart financially?". The bigger point imo, is parenting. We teach a youngster about crossing street, speaking to strangers, and hopefully about budgeting money when we pay them an allowance. Sometimes they fall down learning to ride that bike. Chances are this young person has already been through the "treat me like an adult" phase. I did at that age, my son did at that age. I see this as the same teaching thing, but with an older youngster nearly an adult. I believe that to tell a child "you can make any decision you want, whether I agree or not, at any price, and I will foot the bill" is wrong. It does not teach them responsibility for their own actions. It teaches them just the opposite- that the parent is responsible for the "kid's" actions. Time to let them make their own choice, pay their own way(above what you can comfortably gift), and benefit or fail based on their own actions.</p>
<p>I just want to add my perspective as a dad of a child who transferred from a midlevel public university to an elite private university on the East Coast. He did not know the difference in the two schools until after he had transferred. It became clear to him that the level of attention he was getting, the commitment to learning of the undergraduates, and the quality of teaching and research was so much greater at his new school. Furthermore, the new school offered the specialized training in the arts that he needed. </p>
<p>The cost in terms of tuition was pretty heavy for us, going from approximately $15,000 per year to over $30,000 per year. Ironically, however, the cost of living took a nose dive at his new school, since he did not have to pay for a dorm room and meal plan, and got a wonderfully inexpensive loft in the middle of the city. He also has a kitchen that he shares with a group of students and former students on his floor. </p>
<p>I have to say that he kept us fully informed about his decision to go transfer to a new school. This was a family effort. His grades were also in the stratosphere during his first two years of college, significantly higher than when he was in high school. We saw that he was blossoming and that he has a lot potential, and we wanted to cultivate and encourage this and felt that this extra expense was a reward for his new found academic zeal. We were elated when he was accepted at the new school. His grades are as good at the new school as they were at his first school. We also know, that he will be able to leverage his diploma into his desired career (he is in the arts) more easily than if he had stayed at his old school. Thus, he will not be a burden on us. We are pretty confident that he will succeed -- we have gotten some tangible evidence of this lately -- whether he stays in the arts or he goes for an occupation related to the arts. My son is also an only child, which changes the equation signficantly. No other child will be impacted by an added expenditure for his education. </p>
<p>I think my point is this. We made some very hard-headed decisions about the value of the education at the new school and balanced it against the additional debt. But we made it as a collaboration between child and parents. We all have the same goal, and that goal is achievable. We have added some debt to our lives, but we have arranged our expenses to take care of that debt. Our son will get to his career path, and succeed and fail based on his merits, but will not be held back by his lack of a specialized education. I think that if you make this type of decision with a level head and with hard facts (or in consultation with a financial advisor) you will make the right decision.</p>
<p>The two most successful actors from the area where I live (the San Francisco area) are alumni of community colleges (Robin Williams, from College of Marin, and Tom Hanks, from Chabot). Marlon Brando didn't go to college; neither did Julia Roberts, or Jack Nicholson. Helen Hunt left UCLA after a year. Humphrey Bogart was expelled from Phillips Academy. Tom Cruise enrolled in a seminary at 14, then dropped out to pursue his acting career. Brad Pitt lef the U. of Missouri before graduating. (He studied journalism and advertising.)</p>
<p>Some actors go to college. Christopher Reeve graduate from Cornell; Jimmy Stewart graduated from Princeton. Jody Foster graduated from Yale (after she had already achieved fame in her profession).</p>
<p>In the sit-com world: David Schwimmer graduated from Northwestern; so did Julia Louise-Dreyfuss. Paul Reiser went to SUNY Binghamton. Lisa Kudrow went to Vasser. Ted Danson went to Stanford. Jerry Seinfeld went to SUNY Oswego an Queens College. Lucile Ball didn't go to college;</p>
<p>I saw a road company production of Hairspray last weekend. A few of the younger performers listed their colleges; Iowa State, Ithaca College, Wagner, and Lousianna State are among those listed.</p>
<p>I'm not seeing much of a pattern here. Some people develop their craft in famous colleges, some in less famous colleges, some in acting classes. Some seem to be born with great acting skills. I don't think casting directors care in the slightest where you went to school. They care a great deal about the color of your hair, how much you weigh, and whether you have "that certain something". </p>
<p>Attracting their notice at at all is likely to require a great deal of persistence. My guess is that an actor with a crushing burden of debt is more likely to throw in the towel than one who has been spared that worry.</p>
<p>re NYU I have concluded it is largely for the rich. I am not certain under what circumstance it would behoove an aspiring creative artist to assume $160 K of debt (the amount my son would have assumed had he accepted the offer at Tisch.) But I am quite certain, as a writer in NYC's creative community myself, that 4 years at NYU cannot possibly qualify. For creative artists, the dream-crusher is debt, not inability to attend NYU. Doesn't that make sense?</p>
<p>Correction - After attending other schools, Robin Williams and Christopher Reeve became roommates at Juilliard. (Robin Williams described Juilliard as a "prison with cellos." :) ) They may not have graduated - they may have hit the big time before then. NYC is a great place to do that. Regardless of how many years of schooling a student has had elsewhere, Juilliard starts them all as first years.</p>
<p>It's awfully hard to track the college paths of stars - by the time they become stars, enough years have passed that it's no longer a valid example - times have changed and what worked then doesn't necessarily work now. But isn't this true in any profession? Can we say a college diploma isn't necessary because Bill Gates did without? There are very few careers where we can say, if you do this and go here, then in 5 or 10 years, you will be thus. </p>
<p>We have, twice now, stepped out in faith and fear, and sent our kids to expensive schools. We looked at the big scary numbers, but ultimately took it one year (or semester) at a time. One is graduated (Penn), the other starts his third year (Juilliard.) So far, so good. We've always talked about contingency plans - leaves of absence to work, if necessary. Both kids work(ed) at school. But a year at a time is much less scary that looking at all 4 years at once. As our financial situation changed, so did financial aid. We are an "all for one, one for all" family - and I think that S2 and D would have been willing to give up college completely to help S1 reach his dream. And I think S1 (now earning his own way) would turn around and do the same for D, when it's her turn, should we come up short. </p>
<p>I'm not advocating blindly throwing money wherever. We did, as one poster suggested, make a spread sheet with S1, and he agreed that he would take over loan payments ASAP, so we could work on S2 and D's college. We are conscious of the dollar, but try not to let it be almighty. Sometimes we go with the gut.</p>
<p>I'm not at all familiar with the MT offerings, but why not have your d. finish at the school she's at and then figure out a way to pay for 2 years tuition to get a Masters at Yale or some other top ranked program? You'll be paying for two years of heavy-duty tuition, but she'll have a Master's degree to show for it (plus the paid for bachelor's). One thing about any dream: you won't have it if you can't sleep at night. Large debt would keep me awake.</p>
<p>Mombot, I am not forgetting that she has a full ride scholarship but also considering that she is miserable where she is now. Of all professions, the performance arts(with the exception of concert orchestra performers) is an area where raw natural ability trumps a college degree. And because almost all aspiring actors find it difficult to juggle a full time job with countless auditions and coaching classes, college debt will be a dream crusher indeed.</p>
<p>I understand that all posters here highly value education and a college degree. So do I!! However in the scenario described in the OP, it seems to me that a viable option in persuit of the student's dream is to go after it with a simngleminded passion for a few years. Becoming an active member of the acting community combined with genuine talent is far more important that a college degree for an actor.</p>
<p>And to show you how difficult it is to be a self supporting actor, take a look at the link below. This is a fantastic acting troupe and highly regarded in the NYC theater scene. In the days of Hyperreal America and The Bomb, only 4 or 5 members work for scale on its productions.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.internationalwow.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.internationalwow.org/</a></p>
<p>I'm certainly no expert here, but I have had friends who have been employed as full time actors (with a city theater company). Even with full time employment, the pay was not great - certainly not great enough to have a $1000 per month debt on top of everything else.</p>
<p>If success came (however you want to define it), what would that mean pay-wise? Would it be continuous income? LOTS of continuous income?</p>
<p>digmedia - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly, I entirely agree with you. I would not go into debt to pursue any theater degree, period. Dismiss me as too practical, but it makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>Pardon me, but I just can't seem to figure out what your daughter may be expecting from college in regards to a career in show business. Will a degree from NYU give her jobs or will it give her a good start at getting jobs? I think if she is really talented she should be out there right now looking for work rather than getting enormously in debt for more training. After all , they (the audience) like them young.</p>
<p>orginaloog--I went back and read the OP's first post and she did not describe her daughter as "miserable." She described her as "semi miserable." My response to that is yeah, and? You can afford to be semi miserable for a short time in exchange for a free education. It's not even clear to me that the cause of her "misery" is the specific school where she's enrolled--could be that she finds college a chore and would prefer to be performing. If so transferring isn't going to do much about that. We don't know why the OP's daughter is semi miserable--could be that the reason is related to family or personal concerns. </p>
<p>My personal belief is that "you can do anything for a year." Given OP's daughter will be abroad for part of the two years she has left in her sentence at the free college, I would advise her to stay focused, get her degree and then go off and pursue her dream of musical theater.</p>