Go deeper in debt or be a dream crusher!?

<p>Yes, Northeastmom (re your post #74), my daughter did ask me about her plans to go to Russia, but my daughter was 15 at the time (16 when she went). If my daughter decides to study abroad while in college, I don't expect that she will necessarily tell me about the application process -- and if she came to me after being admitted to a program needing extra funds, I certainly wouldn't fault her for not having mentioned it before.</p>

<p>Eloise, your post #75 pretty much confirms what I suspected. I didn't mean to accuse you of opening your d's mail without permission -- my son is age 23 and has not lived at home for a long time, but gets some mail here. We have an implicit understanding: if it looks important, I'll open it and call him to let him know. If it looks like junk mail, I throw it away. If I can't tell, then I open it to find out. So I just assumed that it was o.k. with your daughter for you to open her mail. (My kids seem to assume that I will: if I call them before I've opened something, they seem irked that I can't tell them what's in the envelope).</p>

<p>Calmom, You brought up the foreign exchange example to Russia, and the fact is that your D did communicate with you, which is very nice (it is nice at 15,16,17,18 etc.). The fact is that she communicates with you. If she decides to plan a trip, or go abroad, and then tells about it after she applies, it is still different than a major life change, and a change that involves a lot of money. I would not find it necessary for my kids to tell me every little thing, but I would want them to feel comfortable discussing major decisions with me. I would not want an envelope arriving at my house to be the window into my child's life. </p>

<p>Eloise did not perceive her D to be sneaky, which is good. I perceived the situation as something else. I wish Eloise, and her family all of the best. I wish your family the best too.</p>

<p>


I don't mean to pry - especially considering that eloise has cleared up that she felt no ill will about the situation - but I think different children need to share things at different times with their parents. I can certainly empathize with someone who thought the acceptance was such a long shot that it wasn't worth mentioning at first. If I was skeptical about getting accepted to begin with, and then thought I 'botched' my audition, I might not want to mention my application because a) if I just I failed at something like that, I wouldn't want to think about it at all, b) I wouldn't want to get either my own or my parents hopes up, and c) if I thought I had no chance, then I would need to focus my efforts into getting the best out of where I currently am, and dreaming about a transfer that probably won't come to fruition doesn't help at all.</p>

<p>I realize that it might have been better for her to tell eloise earlier, both in terms of financial planning and parental involvement, but not all children can/want to express things that they feel vulnerable about to their parents. northeastmom, if your children are able to share such things to you, that's wonderful, but I'd argue that students who don't aren't necessarily being sneaky or deceptive. </p>

<p>eloise, I found this thread because I regularly search for ‘Caltech’, but I’m glad I read it through – there are many involved factors that need to be taken into consideration for this decision. It’s not my place to give any advice on financial issues, but I hope you can reach a decision with which both you and your daughter are satisfied.</p>

<p>cghen,
Thank you for sharing how you might feel about such a situtation. You expressed yourself in such a polite, thoughtful manner. I appreciate that.</p>

<p>Barrons, I actually do know what satire is. I read your comparison, though, as an analogy; that's what appeared to be to me. And I didn't, and don't, think the two items are analogous. So, we disagree. No big deal.</p>

<p>Eloise--sounds like you've raised some fascinating kids. Hope things work out.</p>

<p>Let's just same I am a bit dubious on the value of spending lots of money on MT training. I looked at the list of famous Tisch alums and there are easily as many Wisconsin grads, without much in the way of performing arts training majors, who have become successful in Hollywood and elsewhere in the performing arts and film. They have run networks, made great films, etc.</p>

<p>No, that isn't how it works. If a student can't take out that loan that is enourmous, as you said, then he doesn't take out the loan!</p>

<p>If the neighbor thinks so highly of her, why can't he put her in touch w/ directors looking for somebody w/ her talents and she can take the informal route to MT after she gets a BA?</p>

<p>She's halfway through--why not gut it out and finish school for free and then whatever happens to her, she has a college degree to fall back on.</p>

<p>You are talking about two more years, part of which she is planning on spending abroad anyway, and then she can pursue her dream of MT debt free, since she's gotten a free ride through college. </p>

<p>Am I the only one here that thinks the NYU route is crazy? What if she really can't handle the expense and drops out after a year and she's in debt with NO degree? </p>

<p>Nobody here is looking at the opportunity cost of chucking half of a free bachelor's degree.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I agree with Mombot.</p>

<p>I agree with Dig and Mom, too.</p>

<p>You also have to keep in mind the very dire consequences of missing payments on a student loan, including:</p>

<ul>
<li>In general, a student loan is not dischargeable with a bankruptcy.</li>
<li>Any federal payments (tax refunds, etc) can be withheld to pay the loan.</li>
<li>Obviously, your credit rating can be shot.</li>
<li>If it goes to a collection agency, you will be held liable for legal and collection fees, adding to the amount you owe.</li>
<li>Any future salaries you have can be confiscated up to 15% of the take-home pay amount.</li>
<li>The lender can declare the entire loan amount due, taking away your ability to make payments over time.</li>
</ul>

<p>Just something to think about...</p>

<p>Coming late to the party. As a parent who has made the hard decision to help two (so far) kids go after their impractical dreams, I sincerely wish you all the best, Eloise. It's not an easy thing to justify to those who don't share the dream. I'm pulling for the finances to come through.</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>No, you aren't. I wish that this question had come up six months ago when there was still a chance to apply widely! Surely there are schools out there that, if not quite as perfect for musical theater as NYU, would make your daughter a lot happier and challenge her more...at a better price. But unless she's willing to take a year off and apply again (either to an in-state theater program, or a school that gives better merit aid), I don't see a way out of the dilemma. It's just a question of how much of a burden you think your family can bear. If going to NYU means putting $60k in loans on the child, I say don't do it.</p>

<p>Just call me the dream crusher (g). </p>

<p>Seriously Eloise, I think you should slow down and think about a couple of things:</p>

<p>If her current school was so bad, why are you only finding out about it now? </p>

<p>You said she has a study abroad lined up for next year--the opportunity to study in Europe is fantastic, and may be just the break she needs to adjust her attitude about the school she is attending now, and when she comes back she'll be more than halfway through.</p>

<p>When she graduates with a bachelor's degree DEBT FREE she can move anywhere she wants and pursue lessons and training in musical theater since she won't have debt service. Your neighbor, who you said is well connected, is a good resource for her.</p>

<p>Nowhere is it written that we are all able to pursue our dreams, no matter how impractical and no matter what the impact on others in our lives. </p>

<p>You mentioned you are in the middle of a divorce--could your feelings that you somehow owe this to her be related to guilt over the kids having their lives disrupted?</p>

<p>Having skimmed over the past few pages, I may have missed this...</p>

<p>How about cosigning a Salliemae student loan and telling her she can go wherever she wants, as long as she pays for it? Is that an entirely foreign concept for parents these days? Lol.</p>

<p>I wouldn't cosign on a loan like that.</p>

<p>if the father doesnt want to help pay for college, id threaten litigation...if that is possible, im not sure what the laws are in your state.</p>

<p>Going along w/what Mombot said - if you as a parent wouldn't even cosign a loan like that, why would you take one out in your name anyway? Maybe you'll be considered a dream crusher but you'll be a dream crusher with a house to live in...not to give to the gov't when you can't come up with the payments at 80 years old. Seriously, if your daughter is so incredibly motivated to go to NYU let her pay for it. She'll learn a lot more having to work at something than she ever will having it handed to her.</p>

<p>To offer another perspective: Are your other kids good students? I would be very disappointed if my mom spent all her money on someone else and then later on I'd get into M.I.T or something and I couldn't afford it. </p>

<p>I'd be a bit happier if at least the degree was marketable (no offense to drama/art majors) but you have to consider the ripples of the wave you are creating. </p>

<p>It is amazing to be so supportive of your child and I'm glad my parents have been the same to me. The only difference is that I am an only child and if I were an older brother and my parents had limited funds; I would feel EXTREMELY bad if I sucked all the money away to leave the rest of the family high and dry. I would feel this way no matter how marketable my major was (even if i was doing Ibanking at 100k upon graduation).</p>

<p>Your daughter may be willing to take on the debt herself but I'd also advise against that. Always consider the long term.</p>

<p>Do not forget that dreams can and do turn into nightmares and there is a possibility for that to happen in the case outlined in the OP. What about the other siblings? Will they be estranged by the sacrifices made on behalf of the chosen one? Will any chance of financial security be crushed by the huge undergrad loans? If the chosen one does not have a successful career following college, which is more than likely in the performance industry, will the college debts crush her ability to make free choices early in her adult life? What about the consequences of loan default?</p>

<p>I have a friend whose daughter transferred from a small southern LAC to Tisch and is not stuck being a paralegal in NYC to pay off loans and make ends meet. While she has landed quite a few roles in film, stage and cabaret settings, none have been nearly sufficient enough to pay the bills.</p>

<p>If her dream is to perform and she is singleminded in this, I suggest she forget about college now and devote a year or two persuing this dream of hers. For an overwhelming %age of successful performers, there college degrees and training were meaningless. If she garners some success she is on her way. If not, she can return to college and chase after new dreams.</p>