My son has been accepted to several universities, and we have narrowed it down to 2: UVA or CNU. I know, quite different choices! But CNU offered him a wonderful scholarship over 4 years, a summer in Oxford, and intern opportunities at a huge hospital group in the area, as he is thinking of becoming a MD. But he is not 100% sure yet, so should we rather choose UVA as he would be exposed to more opportunities and areas of study as CNU? How important is the undergrad degree from a not-so-prestige undergrad school compared to UVA? Any insight would be appreciated.
There are other considerations besides money and prestige here. By CNU, I’m assuming you mean Christopher Newport University?
Your son will have quite a different academic peer group at each of these places. Is he the kind of student who needs competition and a peer reference group to push himself to his potential? Will he coast in a less challenging academic environment? Or is he the self-driven, self-motivated type who challenges himself and seeks out opportunities to do so? If he decides med school is not for him, will he regret passing up the opportunities that UVA offers, or will he be happy at CNU without regrets? Keep in mind that most students who start out as pre-meds don’t end up that way, either because their interests shift, or organic chemistry provides a reality check.
CNU offer sounds fantastic! Your son will spend four years there among the top students and being handed the best opportunities from professors for research or jobs. He will experience Oxford! And he will graduate debt free with resources left to spend on med school. Why be an ordinary student at UVA when you can be an extraordinary student at CNU?
For med school what matters is having a stellar GPA and he is likely to have less competition at CNU for grades than at UVA. Sounds like a great deal.
I don’t know much about either school, but I do know when you put prestige as a factor high on your list, you are basing your decision more on what other people think about the school, rather than what you feel about a school and its opportunities.
Much better to be with peers than the extraordinary student. Being able to toss around ideas around after hours with others who get you and are interested in the same things. Who knows- his interest in medical school may wane and he won’t miss other great science opportunities at the top tier flagship U. It could be harder for him to excel without others around him also doing so. Also there are differences in material covered at different schools. I wouldn’t think about the prestige but rather about the education he will get for his money. The small pond may not offer him what he needs/deserves. If he is destined to become a physician it will happen. If he needs to work harder to get top grades that will set him up for the rigors of medical school. Physician here, btw.
I’d say hands down UVA if you can afford it. Otherwise definitely CNU. it’s not about “prestige”. It’s about opportunity. UVA is much much more highly rated for job prospects or grad school prospects. While CNU is up and coming, it is a regional school and not nationally known. Your child was accepted at UVA so he can be exceptional there too. But if it would be difficult $$, all that doesn’t matter. Too many people accept that debt is a part of college. That is a shame. Just my .02. Good luck with the choice!
Many here may not know this, but the freshman class of 2019 at CNU had the third highest GPA average (3.8) out of all Virginia public school incoming 2019 freshman classes. I assume William and Mary and UVA were 1 and 2 in some order. This student can expect to find peers at CNU, especially in the honors, PLP, and medical honors programs. Yes, CNU is smaller and does not have the same variety of majors that UVA has. Being small has advantages and disadvantages depending on the students needs and personality. My DS is at CNU, what he sees as advantages: small class sizes, easier to get to know professors and administrators, great Center for Academic Success which has a writing center and access to tutors, very nice dorms where he has made some wonderful friends, easy to get involved in campus clubs and activities. If I had to list things he hasn’t been crazy about at CNU: he got sick a lot first semester and didn’t always like some of the policies at the health clinic, hes not a big partier - but he’d say CNU doesn’t have a party scene like UVA, CNU is newer and still building traditions - the fun side is they are open to new ideas on activities.
Maybe CNU medical honors for undergrad - knock it out of the park and go UVA for med school.
How much money is the difference and what can you afford?
To me, prestige doesn’t matter much but opportunities, alumni network, and fit do.
Is he very set on med school? What if he doesn’t get in? Other possible plans? I doubt many people outside VA have heard of CNU.
I’m from Maryland, and a lot of kids here would kill to get admitted to UVA because it’s such a good school.
Of course, their chances are low because they’re out-of-staters, and if they do get in, the cost is high for the same reason.
UVA is pretty reasonably priced for in-staters. Is it affordable for your family? If not, then obviously CNU is the better choice. But if you can afford it, your son is lucky to have the option of going there.
Thank you very much for all the input so far. The money we are talking about is $10 000 for 4 years. We told our son as he was the one who worked hard so that he could get this type of scholarship, we would give him the $40 000 after 4 years. The cost of CNU and UVA is pretty similar for us in-staters, and we can foot the bill, so we could either give UVA the $40 000 or our son! It would make his transition to grad school much easier, less debt etc for his future. I hear all you say about UVA, but he could go to grad school at UVA, couldn`t he? Therefor my original question - how important is an undergrad degree from a not-so-prestige undergrad school?
This might be totally uninteresting to you, but have a look at this data…
http://highereddatastories.blogspot.com/2014/02/where-did-doctoral-recipients-go-to.html
It basically shows where doctoral candidates get their undergraduate degrees. I’m seriously not trying to sell you anything - just think its a good comparison of the two schools and maybe answers your question a bit about the importance of the undergrad school… I know that CNU is really doing some great things and is a beautiful place… (btw you can filter this data down to just CNU and UVA on the right)
While that data can be helpful, there are many factors that the use must consider. As stated on the page, the largest universities will automatically have more eventual doctorates. The most selective schools also probably have more students interested in pursuing a doctorate. UVA fits both categories which will drive its numbers up. But none of that means that CNU will not prepare a student for doctoral work.
I think for an MD, it’s less of a factor other than the previously stated likliehood of a change in major. If one is looking at a PhD in psychology, then the research opportunities during undergrad are immensely important.
@vabmom123 It will probably just boil down to what your son wants and where he sees himself fitting in the most in the next four years. My ds17 could have an automatic scholarship to a number of schools based on his very high sat and psat scores but we are trying to allow him to choose where the fit is right - even if it means he has less $$ for grad school. If your son is most comfortable with cnu, then you’ve found his college. He needs to see himself somewhere having fun, excelling in his studies, making life long friendships, collaborating with those students in research, finding professors as mentors, and in general, creating an environment that allows him to be his best. I agree $40,000 is a wonderful start to grad school and you cannot forget that but I think fit is so very important for our kids. I believe close to 50% (maybe more?) of kids change their mind about major, future, grad school, etc. once they get to college so its very possible that the our kids’ dreams today will be so very different by the end of undergrad. The reality is – even if med schools look more highly at a dregree from uva than cnu (which I’m not sure is true because it seems like they care the most about gpa and mcat scores) – if your ds doesn’t want to be there, its not the right place. If he doesn’t know yet - take him back to both places and reexamine. Personally, I’m dreading the final decision process next year with my ds. I want to help him and guide him without influencing him too much and that is quite a tightrope… All the best to you and your successful son!
Thanks! It is a tough choice, and we have left it in his hands to make the choice. Both my husband an I did not get our degrees in the US, so the whole US system is very foreign to us! Where we are from, you would choose your end goal at age 18, study towards it, and very seldom switch to anything else. You just stuck to your decision. But it seems in the US everybody leaves a back door open to switch around to something else. And I am not so sure that that is a good thing!? CNU has a very good reputation when it comes to admittance to the med schools of EVMS or VCU. That is how we heard about CNU, because before that, we only knew of UVA, W+M, JMU, GMU, etc. But we were blown away with the lovely campus of CNU, and then especially by their very generous offer. Tough tough tough!!!
If he and you are certain that he will be an MD (will not waver in his goal and can get in to med school) CNU is fine and I’d save the money. But if his goals change, I believe UVa would be more helpful.
I personally prefer the flexibility of the American system over the fixed-route uni system in most of the rest of the world. Few 18 year-olds truly know what they want to do for the rest of their life or what they are really good at.
And yes, a ton of folks wish they were lucky enough to attend UVa at in-state rates.
Don’t let $40,000 stand in the way. In the long term view, that’s not a lot of money. Don’t give that money to him which could be quite insignificant in his life time. Use it on his education instead.
CNU is fine, but UVa is just in an different league academically. What would I do? If my kid preferred it, I’d spend the extra 10K a year on UVa because if I had regrets, I’d rather miss the 40K than miss the opportunities that UVa might extend to my student. To put things in perspective, 40K is the price of a low-end luxury car. It’s not going to come close to paying for med school. It’s not going to make that much of a difference in the long run. It could make a huge difference now.
If your son decides not to apply for MD programs, but instead decides to get a PhD, that degree would be funded anyway, and he’d have a better shot out of UVa for admission into competitive and prestigious funded PhD programs, where the quality of the faculty recommendations and the relative strength of the undergraduate peer group will influence admissions decisions. If he ever wants or needs to get work outside the state of Virginia, UVa is known everywhere.
You can’t assure yourself of becoming a doctor at the age of 18 by just “sticking with it.” You need to get accepted first to med school and that’s not easy. About 52,000 people applied to US med schools last year and only 20,000 of them got in. (https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/). Take a look at the medical school forum on here for some more perspective.
If your son turns out to be one of the 32,000 who don’t get in, how will he feel about an undergraduate degree from CNU when he could have gone to UVa? It’s a question worth considering.
Very interesting perspective @NJSue . Thanks.
Thank You to all who participated in this discussion. My son made his decision and he will go to UVA. We are happy for him, and proud of his accomplishment. I guess from now on I will read the UVA thread!
Congratulations to your son on his good acceptances and fine opportunities!