<p>As for the Bible contradicting itself - - - I’m fairly certain that in court, when numerous witnesses are called to recount an event, their stories are much more credible when they contain varying facts. If each witness had retold the events exactly as the others did, how realistic would that be?Each person perceives each situation differently because of their own schema - this could account for [at least some of] the discrepancies in the Bible. Just my two cents, but I think this makes sense.</p>
<p>Personally, I am a Christian and obviously am not comfortable with believing something seemingly blatantly against the fundamental beliefs of my religion [id est- evolution], but it makes sense. I mean, it seems to me that no educated person could refute microevolution. So why is macroevolution such a stretch? But to me, I find it very hard to believe that humans ‘evolved’ from apes. There are similarities, especially in the DNA sequencing, but it boggles my mind to believe that I am descended from an ape. Which is why I don’t really believe it.
Why are there still apes around? If they evolved into humans?</p>
<p>I agree that some sort of higher power has controlled what goes on in this universe, but evolution did happen. I don’t know what caused it to happen, but evolution did happen. The Bible, however is not something that should be taken literally, which is something that unfortunately many people do. It is a story based on someones, or a culmination of several peoples, ideas of what could have happened. A STORY, as in not real, made up, etc. I’m not saying that religion is a bad thing, but people should take these biblical stories witha grain of salt. You have an imagination, right? So why don’t you go ahead and think of your own story about how everything became what it is instead of believing someone elses story as if it were fact. I don’t understand why people are just so willing to accept everything a book tells them. I mean, come on, the human race has to be smarter than that right? So, continue going to church or whatever if you want to, but understand that what you are being told is all ideas, opposed to fact. Take it for what it is. (I realize that there are many people who do, in fact, do this)</p>
<p>Ugh. This post was kind of a mess but oh well, I’m sure you get the picture.</p>
<p>INVENIAMVIAM, according to the principles of evolution we did not “evolve from apes”. Instead we evolved from a common ancestor between apes and humans. There’s no more of that common ancestor around, however there are apes and there are humans. My not “believing” in evolution does not stem from an ignorance of the idea, but instead my spiritual commitment to my religion.</p>
<p>Cervantes - I think I may have lost my train of thought towards the end of my post… I do not believe in macroevolution personally. But I think that microevolution [ex. bacteria evolving to become immune to a vaccine, etc] makes sense and doesn’t contradict what is in the Bible. Since macroevolution is just micro on a large scale, it seems plausible [in theory at least] as well. Here’s where I may have seemed unclear: I think evolution could make sense, but I don’t believe in it either. To paraphrase you - it’s where my education and my personal beliefs remain separate. And I didn’t mean to imply that you were ignorant of the idea at all [if I did! :D], and I completely understand your commitment to religion.</p>
<p>Personally, I am a Christian and obviously am not comfortable with believing something seemingly blatantly against the fundamental beliefs of my religion [id est- evolution], but it makes sense.
It is sometimes uncomfortable to contemplate things which may seem to contradict what we may like to believe is real. However, reality does not always conform to what we believe as individuals. Its important to keep an open mind about the nature of our universe the questions of why we are here and where our origins lie cannot simply be what this person or that person believes personally. This is why we use science to answer such questions it is the least flawed (although not entirely flawless) method to use to discover the workings of reality. The question you must ask yourself is Why do I believe what I believe? If the answer is that you have faith, why do you have faith in a particular set of beliefs? Why dont you believe in Allah? Why dont you believe in Thor? Why dont you believe in any of the other gods or religious systems in the world?</p>
<p>I mean, it seems to me that no educated person could refute microevolution. So why is macroevolution such a stretch? But to me, I find it very hard to believe that humans ‘evolved’ from apes.
Well, macroevolution and microevolution are really the same thing, which is why I find it a bit suspect that these two words are even used in the first place. Macroevolution is simply microevolution over a longer period of time… The exact same process. Think about it this way A bacterium is undergoing microevolution at a certain pace. If you were watching this as a sort of time lapse, it would be changing gradually. Over billions of years, this bacterium is going to change so much that if you were to compare the original to the evolved version, they would not look anything alike. You might be comparing a bacterium to a bird. If you go by the presumption that microevolution is correct, but not macroevolution, I would have to ask you when the process decides: Oh, this is enough evolution. Id better stop now. It seems silly to say it that way, but it holds true. If microevolution occurs, macroevolution occurs because time passes.</p>
<p>There are similarities, especially in the DNA sequencing, but it boggles my mind to believe that I am descended from an ape. Which is why I don’t really believe it.
The fact that it boggles your mind has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether it is true or not. Quantum mechanics is probably the most mind boggling thing Ive ever come across, but Ill never say that I dont believe it because I cant understand it (nobody understands it). The fact that all of the predictions ever made by QM have been correct, with not a single one wrong, is enough to convince me that QM is very real. As I said before, the human mind is limited, so we cannot discover the truth by intuition or common sense alone. Common sense is useless in some realms because we simply arent wired to understand such things.</p>
<p>If you actually think that evolution says that we descended from apes and that evolution is random then you need to seriously read up on what evolution actually is. </p>
<p>Evolution is anything but random. Also, there is no way that you can believe in microevolution and not believe in macroevolution. Like the other poster said, it is the same process acting in both instances, so why would it differ from one to the other? </p>
<p>Read up on evolution and maybe those arguing against it may be able to give some rational reasons why they don’t accept it, other than “Well, my religion says its wrong, therefore I don’t believe it, even in the face of an overwhelming amount of data validating it”</p>
<p>It is so ridiculous when you think of what religion does in order to keep it’s faithful. Creationists use to say “Evolution is doesn’t occur”. But then, when we literally show and prove to them that amoeba’s, viruses, cellular structures evolve in front of our eyes, then they say "Well, “micro"evolution happens, but not macroevolution”. </p>
<p>That is so stupid. Micro and macro are relative! The laws of physics don’t take sides based on size. What is macro to us can be micro to other species. </p>
<p>Want another example? How about when in the bible it says the earth is about 6,000 years old. Everyone said people who thought it was older was crazy…until it was proven to be billions of years “4.5 billion years” old. So what to christians do? They say “O…well to God 1 year is like 1,000 to us…”. Science has been disproving the bible alway back when it was shown that the earth wasn’t the center of the universe “Ummm…ok…the sun is the center of the universe”. Then it was shown that we in fact are in some random corner of our galaxy, so bible-thumpers just stopped talking about it.</p>
<p>I just can’t understand how anyone with a memory larger than a gnat doesn’t realize this. I’m not saying don’t have your religion, I’m just saying you need to accept some things instead of purely following a book.</p>
<p>neutrino - thanks for the reply. :] I like that you can present your information without insulting everyone with varying views [as in Smallz3141’s post..]
tamarind - that would be “Deus mortuus est” :D</p>
<p>I think people have a choice what to believe in and what to vote for. If someone refuses to accept evolution he or she doesn’t need to defend their belief.</p>
<p>INVEN- but when the witnesses have fundamentally entirely different accounts of the facts, as in the basics of “who did it” and “when”, something is wrong. To me, this is similar to the ways in which the bible contradicts itself.</p>
<p>Hey, you may think it’s insulting, but that’s life. If Christianity and all other religions just kept there story straight, that would be fine. Let them preach Creation, let them preach there beliefs that the world is 6,000 years old, etc etc. That is absolutely fine with me, you are free to believe what you want. </p>
<p>But because the Church insists on butting in on the rest of the community, it has to shape it’s words so that it can say “See, we are right in all apsects including science”. Because they want to show that they are right in every regard, this is when they start changing their story because of what science has proved, as I stated above. If they just kept to their core, original beliefs, and kept it in the church, that would be fine. I have no problem with people who have separate beliefs, but it is when you then force them on other people and institutions, that’s when it gets ridiculous. And because Christianity attempts to do that, it has to go back on its original statements as science progresses, making it hypocritical, arrogant, and therefore beyond just a religious institution.</p>
<p>StichinTime, not so fast yourself. This country gives its citizens the right to vote on issues of public policy. Even if the people who support creationism taught in biology classes (which I don’t) cannot defend creationism scientifically, as long as they are in the majority creationism will be taught in the classroom. Since public school systems are funded by public money, it is only logical that the will of the majority is going to influence how that money is spent.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the evidence doesn’t support your assertion. There is not one public school biology class in the nation that is currently teaching creationism.</p>
<p>I was offering schools teaching creationism as an example, and there are schools that do not teach evolution in biology (I saw a tv show on this). Furthermore, the Creationism does not se per se support one religion above all others. That’s why your town is able to put up Christmas decorations, as long as they don’t only put up Christmas decorations they are A-OK.</p>
<p>Usually when Creationism is taught, it doesn’t say that “God created the world in 6 days, rested on the 7th, etc.” It simply states that there is a “Higher Being” or “Intelligent Force” behind everything. That seems to cover more than Christianity. If it didn’t, they could go ahead and state that they were talking about the Christian God.</p>
<p>like all u guys i made huuuuuuge posts in this thread (pretty sure) before…so, i’m in no mood to restart the same questions that have been circulating throughout this thread again and again.
just kind of throwing this statement(s) forward: does it really matter whether you believe in existence of God or whether evolution is true or not? like when i think abt it…would the world really care if the majority thinks in one side or the other? we are naturally deprived…whether by God or by any other power…we’ll be outta this world in like 100 yrs if too much? it’s not like whether u believe in God or not wud do any good to u in this world (then again, i don’t wanna get into the whole existence of God or not conversation..coz, i’m pretty sure u encountered enuf of those in this thread already). whatever u believe, that’ll help u..it’ll help to tempt ur satisfaction/moral/reasonings…of course there’s place to debate and stuffs to find a reason..but after all, no reasons can exactly answer the question of God. anyway, that was just me rambling.</p>