<p>More than half. It makes me throw up a little in my mouth, but just look at all those old republican presidential nominees. And Mike Huckabee. Yeah.</p>
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one day for God is like 1,000 days for humans...
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<p>please post or link to proof of this, tia</p>
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What doesn't make sense about [creationism]? I'd love to explain the points you do not understand.
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<p>Literally everything about it doesn't make sense, because it is entirely supported by simplistic appeals to intuition and confirmation biases that support a pre-supposed conclusion. I challenge you to submit something from creationist theory that, in fact, does make logical sense given what we know about the world today.</p>
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IMO, evolution, the big bang theory, etc. don't make any sense.
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<p>Right, because taking a loose collection of bronze-age etiological myths appropriated into an ancient scriptural text as literal fact makes perfect sense.</p>
<p>My friends are always shocked when I say this (because I'm usually "one of you" who would side with evolutionists), but I have actually come to see both as valid.</p>
<p>Not the creationism espoused by religious zealots, but the idea that there is an intelligent force at work through the evolutionary process. I have come to this conclusion through experiences as a mystic and with shamans. In that realm, you come to understand that with, for example, the ecology of a forest, competition and "survival of the fittest" may be more of an illusion than a reality. I derive this not from belief, but from direct experience in forests in which I have aligned my consciousness to a point in which the forest became a conscious guide to me. Others who live deep in forests have heard trees emit a low moan (not a creak), only to see a logging truck drive by soon after.</p>
<p>Such experiences have interesting implications on our economy, which is based on the same principles as ecology.</p>
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A virgin birth?
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parthenogenesis... =)
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I find it hard to believe there are anti-evolutionists at all on CC.
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that's cuz the 55% of the ppl that believe in creationism are all uneducated. VERY uneducated. and very gullible. this isn't even really a discussion. would you make a thread that tries to get people to argue whether or not the snow that falls from the sky is actually pixie dust that falls from fairy wings when they dance? if anyone tries arguing that, i think we can safely assume that that person is either immensely ignorant or just plain stupid. we can make the same assumption here.</p>
<p>creationism is stupid, period. it was invented to inflate people's egos, and make them feel better. it was disseminated from a few individuals who wanted to be subjugate the rest of the population, and so put themselves as the leader of...religion. and then spread stories of hell and heaven so people would obey them. </p>
<p>honestly, point to a single controversy between religion and science where religion has won out. I can't think of any. Remember when they believed the earth was flat? Yeah, apparently the bible and God said so. Well guess what, God was wrong (do creationists still believe the earth is flat?). Anyways, i don't see the difference between that argument and this one. 'Cept here, creationists can always use the "well you can't DISPROVE our theory (sic) so it must be true." since when did human beings start to use that argument to prove waht they say? i can't disprove the fact that there are fairies in the garden making my plants grow, but does that mean we have put offerings in our backyard to feed them? </p>
<p>Is there a single piece of "evidence" for creationism that is still valid? They used to use the second law of thermodynamics as "evidence" of creationism. and other "explanations" they tried to put forth were ultimately put down. And they have yet to find a reasonable explanation besides "well you can't disprove it." which just goes to show how much creationism is more akin to fairytales than science.</p>
<p>P.S. there is no argument between scientists and creationists. Scientists just look at creationists as really weird, ignorant religious nuts not worth their time.</p>
<p>PPS. the fairies idea borrowed from dawkins ^^</p>
<p>I'm a creationist. The point of faith is that you believe in something unconditionally regardless of whether you can prove it logically or not. Us not knowing how it is scientifically possible for the bible to be true is the fact that we ourselves do not have God's knowledge. I myself am a scientifically driven individual but there are things I still hold as true regardless of what data or evidence my come up. I don't see creationists imposing their views on all of you on this forum. How does creationism harm any of you at all besides creating an annoyance to your oh so "logical" minds? I don't understand why you had to create a thread to flame us. </p>
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that's cuz the 55% of the ppl that believe in creationism are all uneducated. VERY uneducated. and very gullible.
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<p>Where are you getting these "facts"? Many of the people in the church that I attend have attended top 20 universities. I'm only including this fact because I know that you all appreciate a egood ducation as vital in forming a rational human being or else you wouldn't be on this site. Having faith in something that is greater than oneself is not zealotry.</p>
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It took us 40 years for the US and Russia to come to their senses and stop bashing each other. What makes me think that the entire earth can be created in 6000 days, let alone 6?
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humans vs. a diety... you can't compare the two...</p>
<p>andrea, i see now... i misunderstood what you wrote</p>
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honestly, point to a single controversy between religion and science where religion has won out. I can't think of any. Remember when they believed the earth was flat? Yeah, apparently the bible and God said so. Well guess what, God was wrong (do creationists still believe the earth is flat?).
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what Bible were you reading?</p>
<p>you all might find this interesting Do</a> real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net</p>
<p>There's a fundamentalist assumption on the scientific side of the equation that everything is wrapped up and explained. </p>
<p>I certainly do not deny evolution. I just do not think it's yet explained the whole picture. I just think that as we begin to understand and evolve our consciousness, the lines between spirituality and science will blur and we will find far more overlap than, for example, Narcissa above allows. It will have nothing to do with faith or believing, either.</p>
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Where are you getting these "facts"?
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sorry, i meant to say that education does decrease the % of creationism-oriented thinking. on wikipedia it says that of the people who have college degrees, less than 20% believe in creationism. but it doesn't mean any one side is stupider/less educated or anything. despite what i said above.</p>
<p>this argument is probably a bit dumb. nobody is going to change their views, regardless of how much "evidence" is piled up on both sides. and in a way, nobody is right, either, because who if whatever you believe in is important to you and makes you feel better, then its existence is justified.</p>
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The point of faith is that you believe in something unconditionally regardless of whether you can prove it logically or not.
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<p>how do you decide what to unconditionally believe in and how do you know that it's the "right" belief (outside of intuitively "knowing" that it is)</p>
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How does creationism harm any of you at all besides creating an annoyance to your oh so "logical" minds?
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<p>because in this day and age creationism has all the scientific validity of a conspiracy theory and yet it is perpetuated at every level of the government and in the public school system. </p>
<p>the schools thing in particular - kids should be learning how to think critically and generate models that best fit the evidence, not selectively seek out data that fits a presupported conclusion and brush aside everything that doesn't. this is the next generation of voters we're talking about here, it only hurts our country if they don't learn scientific thinking.</p>
<p>at the very least it's kind of pathetic to hold viewpoints that you can't and won't bother defending</p>
<p>there is NO god :)</p>
<p>If you don't believe in evolution, you don't believe in bacteria becoming resistant to drugs.</p>
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I certainly do not deny evolution. I just do not think it's yet explained the whole picture.
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And it never will; science will never be "finished."</p>
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The point of faith is that you believe in something unconditionally regardless of whether you can prove it logically or not.
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As long as we keep science and faith in separate universes, this is fine. The scientific method doesn't allow selectively excluding some sciences from the method.</p>
<p>That's my only gripe - there is a sect of evolutionists who have blocked out any suggestion that there is something greater at work than "survival of the fittest" - even if that something can someday be explained scientifically. </p>
<p>I think spirituality holds wisdom that fills in the blank until we can understand these concepts through science. Ultimately, I think science (and perhaps quantum science in particular) will explain a universe far more empowering and fascinating than anything conceived of by religion. Jesus, for example, may well have just been a master of physics. People could not yet understand that level of scientific mastery, so they made him into a God and called him a miracle-worker. The rest is a very distorted history.</p>
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even if that something can someday be explained scientifically
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That is actually our sect's "out," when it can be explained scientifically. ;)</p>
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That's my only gripe - there is a sect of evolutionists who have blocked out any suggestion that there is something greater at work than "survival of the fittest" - even if that something can someday be explained scientifically.
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<p>I chalk this up to human nature. When you've got a large segment of the population who believe simplistic teleological arguments about bananas and peanut butter over tried-and-true science, the urge to be extreme about your own beliefs must be pretty large.</p>
<p>Evolution does have an incredibly vast body of evidence in support of it, and it's unlikely that anything could ever come up that would turn it on its head. Make alterations, definitely - the specific theory of mechanisms has changed somewhat since Darwin first formulated it, and will always be undergoing refinement. This doesn't mean it's false, for the same reasons that Einstein refining the theory of gravity in the 20th century made gravity "false." It just changed the ideological framework, or "scientific theory," that pieces together the data in a way that explains it.</p>
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humans vs. a diety... you can't compare the two...
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<p>Deity is a fictional being created by humans. No way deity is superior to humans.</p>
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it is a fact.
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<p>It is called "THEORY" of Evolution. I just wanted to make that sure.</p>
<p>As a christian, I can say that I too believe in evolution. However, I believe that man was created in God's image. Other things may evolve, it is part of His plan, but humans can only adapt slightly. Evolution still doesn't answer the big question. If life came from random matter, heat, and light, where did the matter come from? Something has to be there, something beyond our understanding, that created matter and therefore life. Do i believe that all the animals from biblical, and even pre-biblical, times were the same as today? No, but I am sure that humans did not come from apes.
I can believe that a wholly mammoth can evolve into a modern day elephant. But i can't believe that something didn't originally create the matter and the element of life to begin with.</p>
<p>take the big bang theory. with a bunch of infintately dense yet vast gasses mingling together and spontaneously combusting. Ok, thats fine. But who created the gases? its not like stuff is just there.</p>