<p>Our DD (junior) is at a crossroads with what schools to look at next. She has been looking across the board at DI-III and NAIA. Here is the dilemma and she asked me to post here to just hear the opinions of others: </p>
<p>If she goes to one of the several DIII programs that have expressed a LOT of interest in her, she is pretty much guaranteed to go to nationals either on the team level or individually, at least one year, most likely all 4 years. To do this at a DI or DII program, she would have to go to a program that is more intense than she wants-she wants to go to college and get a degree and play vs playing and oh, by the way, here is your degree. She has worked hard for the last many years and getting a scholarship in college is kind of an outward reward for that effort so the option would be to go to a lower level DI or DII program with pretty much zero chance of going to nationals. OUR main goal for the scholarship is to help her pay for college. </p>
<p>So, she has exhausted the search in her "comfort zone" for being however far away from home. She can't decide if she should expand her search or keep the limited number of scholarship programs and look into more DIII schools.</p>
<p>So, scholarship or nationals? Which would you choose and why?</p>
<p>Hi Steve - okay, here are a few random thoughts on your situation. For background, I have one D1 college athlete (non-swimming) and another who swam in HS but didn’t pursue it in college. </p>
<p>Sounds like her primary focus in college will be on academics, instead of her sport - which is the way it should be, IMO, good for her. College swimming is grueling - esp at a D1 level - there is a high burnout rate. If she chooses the scholarship route and after a year decides she is done with staring at the black line on the bottom of a pool for 4 hours a day, well there goes the scholarship.</p>
<p>As for D1 scholarships, I think there are 14 total womens scholarships to cover the swimming and diving roster in a fully-funded program. How many on the typical roster? 30 or 40? So there’s a good chance she’s looking at a partial. I do understand the sports scholarship as a sort of ‘validation’ of all the work she’s done to date, plus the money certainly helps, but it may not end up being as much as you’d like.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the majority of student athletes are best served by leveraging their athletics (that sounds more manipulative than I’d like) into the best possible academic situation. You haven’t mentioned her academics, but you may find the one of the D3’s that is so eager to have her may be able to put together a merit or need-based financial package that will trump the d1 athletic money.</p>
<p>So my vote, explore top academic d3 programs, and if she gets to compete in Nationals, that’s just icing on the cake.</p>
<p>She is a golfer if that makes a difference. She is a good student. The scholarship programs we have looked into, even on a half scholarship (which is common) academics and golf would pretty much cover the COA. In golf there are 4.5-5 scholarships/team, 5 compete at a time, most rosters carry 6-8 athletes so there is pretty much 100% chance she would get at least a 1/2 scholarship at DI-II or NAIA.</p>
<p>Part of the frustration came from our college visit over the weekend. On paper it was “perfect”, right size school, right location, great program for her major, DI, she would be one of their top players so competition level just right—5 minutes into the campus tour we looked at each other and pretty much said-NOT the right fit.</p>
<p>Her top 3 schools right now are a DIII, DI and an NAIA school that we have not visited but again “on paper” sounds like a great fit. I think it will be a good fit given the make-up of the school vs the last school we visited. We are just out of time until summer for visits.</p>
<p>Ah, why the heck did I think she was a swimmer? The ‘Nationals’ must’ve thrown me.
Any chance that the ‘perfect D1’ just made a bad first impression? Looking back on initial visits, sometimes they bore little resemblance to actual campus life.</p>
<p>No, just not a good fit at all. Campus was nice enough but without sounding like a snob, the general student population was just not the right fit. If she had no other choices and they gave her a full ride plus some, she might consider it :D. It was just one of those things you just “knew” wasn’t right.</p>
<p>In order, what is the family priority between academic, athletic and financial? Forget about the D1 vs D3 thing which many people get hung up on. If you tell me academics is driving the bus, then she goes to the school that provides the best education. Our priority was academic, athletic and financial in that order. I know many people that were financial, athletic and academic. There is no wrong answer, just the best answer for her.</p>
<p>We went through this exercise quite a bit at the dinner table. Based on my son’s major (engineering) we had to make some compromises for his sport. We were not willing to compromise on his education. My best advice is to have a heart to heart with her & family to define what is most important and then take it from there. Most likely the answer will become evident.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about the golf world, but one thing I would check into with any school you are considering is the travel schedule. Where are the tournaments held that the team goes to annually? How far away would your D have to travel and how often? Consider time zone differences, which may necessitate arriving a day or two in advance to acclimate and thus missed class time. Depending on the sport and the geographic location (ie. remote), there are probably some Div. 3 schools whose practice and travel schedule is every bit as grueling as that of a Div. 1 school, but without the advantages of money or higher competitive level.</p>
<p>Secondly, I don’t think competing at a Div. 1 school necessarily means your daughter can’t focus primarily on academics. We aren’t talking about men’s football, after all. Kids on my D’s nationally ranked Div. 1 team are engineering majors, pre-meds, etc. and many have high GPA’s with no dumbing down. One former teammate just won a Rhodes scholarship. That said, doing well in both sports and studies isn’t easy. I’m just not sure it’s that much easier at a good Div. 2 or 3 school. Have your D specifically question current team members of the schools she is interested in about how many hours a day or week they spend in practice, cross-training, in PT etc.</p>
<p>Hi Steve, my son plays D1 golf and by the way, for women there are 6 scholarships for a fully funded program, the men get the 4.5. So to get a full in womens golf is not unlikely.
I also have a daughter who plays NAIA although a different sport. I think the main thing you need to consider over all the $$ is where she will be happiest. Would she be happy at the college she picks if golf were not in the picture? I have seen guys fade off my sons team, for burnout, not making the lineup, too hard etc… there is always kids who can’t handle the intensity of D1. As far as nationals go, in golf as you mentioned you can make it as an individual, that is the beauty of this sport. My sons team is currently in a “struggling year”… last year we ranked quite well, this year we don’t. Next year we ought to be awesome. So focus on where she will be the most happy above all else!!! The golf coach is a huge factor in the equation because she will be spending more time with him/her than anyone else for the next 4 years of her life. That person is key and a good coach/player relationship is vital. My son and his coach have a great relationship and it makes all the difference in the world.
Also unlike GFG stated above, golf teams miss more class time than ANY other D1 sport so you cannot really major in engineering or something that requires you to be in labs. My son switched out of the bio sci dept into business because of this. It is very difficult to stay on top of the academics pending the school you choose in golf. He goes to a big public university however and they are pretty hands off and the students have to be the ones who manage the communication etc… smaller schools sometimes have more support or help for golfers.
If she is good enough to play D1 and loves golf I highly recommend it. The perks, the travel, the clubs, clothes, courses etc… are so amazing. D2-NAIA does not compare when it comes to golf… Good luck and congrats…</p>
<p>The travel schedule is a huge issue and mostly the reason she doesn’t want to play at a top D1 school. They consistently miss 2-3 days/school each week or at least every weekend fall and spring. The lower tier D1 programs usually travel locally and generally miss one day/week and usually only every other week at that. I know the perks that go along with the top D1 programs are amazing and that is some of the draw with wanting D3 and going to nationals. Unless she really decided to kick her game up a notch, she won’t qualify individually for DI national. She would be a 4-6 player for the 15-25th ranked teams or so.</p>
<p>She wants to study biology and get into medical school so that is the main reason why a top D1 program is out. The lower tier schools we have looked into run their DI programs much like a DIII, which is what is attractive about them.</p>
<p>As for priorities-they are all major considerations. Education comes first but the nice thing about her wanting to go to medical school is she is really 'better off" NOT going to a tippy top school and finding a smaller school that has a great pre-med advisory program. All of the schools we have considered fit this. Because of medical school and costs, financials would be second in that if she can get out of UG debt free or very close to it, life will be much better later on. She won’t consider any school that doesn’t have a woman’s golf team but past that, she is looking at all levels. I just wish the NCAA would make this easier on spring sports for recruiting. We are talking mid June before coaches can call her, that is really late in the game. Add in that she can’t do any official tours until September and NO time over the summer to go and we are starting to feel the crunch. It would have been nice to have all of the “looking” done by now.</p>
<p>fit fit fit. If she hates her choice the rest won’t matter. Make sure she gets a real feel for the school, not just the golf team. S2 chose his school for the wrong reasons and regretted it.</p>
<p>Definitely check the travel schedules because that could be a big deal.</p>
<p>If she is a very good student she can probably get a lot of merit aid at some D3 schools, $ that she won’t lose if she quits golf.</p>
<p>I think you are leaning toward the lower D1 programs.</p>
<p>Scholarships are very good to have. How much will a D3 national trip really mean, knowing that it is “only” D3? Is a D3 national the same as a D1 national? I’m just trying to point out that the national vs scholarship might not be such a big deal if she has the mindset that it’s not as meaningful because it’s D3. Will she be competing with better players at D1 and will that allow her to learn more and become better, or would she rather go in at the top of the heap with less tough competition at D3? I’m sure some D3 programs are very good, but I’m assuming the BEST (most devoted) are choosing the D1 scholarship.</p>
<p>Who’s paying her loans if she doesn’t get scholarship? I know my son would choose the no-loan option if it was him paying them back!</p>
<p>For the best balance of academic, athletic and financial the D3 might be good w/merit $. If you can get that at the "lower’ D1, then do that. Do an overnight visit.</p>
<p>Finally, maybe with good training, better facilities, and tough competition she COULD get good enough for higher level nationals!</p>
<p>Steve, just be proactive and go on unofficial visits, golfers do it all the time. Early commitments are the norm now for golf. My son committed to his school in November of his junior year of hs… a full year before signing. Coaches can meet and talk with you on their campuses and if they want her they can make an offer right then and there. No reason to sit back and wait. We often planned visits around our sons tournament schedule… What part of the country are you in?</p>
<p>Also another thought, if she is a 4-6 on a top program, I would suggest keeping mid majors in mind. It is much better to be out there competing in tournaments than to be stuck home with your only competition being trying to get the #5 spot. When my son was looking he wanted to go where he could be an impact player from the get go and be in all the tournaments.</p>
<p>momof2010–The reason I was the first to bring up the travel issue is precisely because I suspected that the golf team might be one that traveled far and often to tournaments that take several days to complete. I figured that would be of concern to the OP’s D.</p>
<p>My D is not a golfer–sorry about the confusion with that. All the same, if you go to a Div 3 school in the boonies you will have to travel more to compete than if you attend a Div 1 school where there are lots of other universities and college nearby.</p>
<p>I surveyed the men’s and women’s golf rosters at my D’s school. Unfortunately, a major is not listed for most of the kids, but I found one engineering major on the men’s team.</p>
<p>njfootballmom=The top DIII schools she is considering would beat the lower tier DI schools in head to head competition. DD has the talent to play wherever she wants, she doesn’t have the drive to want to practice for hours on end. We have several players in our state that DO want to compete at the highest level and train year round and she competes very well against those kids, especially considering she puts in about 1/10th of the time they do :). If she wanted to go pro, we would be doing this a lot differently. Yes, even nationals at the D3 level is a big deal and would look VERY good on her med school applications.</p>
<p>momof2010–we’ve gone on several unofficial visits, just trying to expand the pool some. She most defiantly wants to be participating in the tournaments. We are comparing her sophomore year stats to current stats for the various teams. We assume she will get better over the next couple years and could move up in those “rankings”.</p>
<p>Right now she has 3 D3 schools (possibly a 4th) 3 DII schools and 2 DI schools and one NAIA she is considering. We have visited or have been to all of these schools except the DII and NAIA school. There is a 3rd DI program that just showed up on the radar that we will probably be able to visit. We want to make sure we visit that school during the school year because it might end up being like the last school we visited and not a good fit-but who knows. </p>
<p>TheGFG==she has checked rosters and majors as well. She wants to see if at least one player is in a lab major. Some schools list majors, most do not. It is a question she has asked on every visit though.</p>
<p>By her total choice, her #1 pick right now is Dh’s and my alma matter -D3 program. It’s a great fit for her and I would have no issues with her going there at all but depending on the day she goes back and forth about nationals/scholarship–and with that scholarship the national singing day ceremony at our school… All of the schools she is considering are good fits academically, socially, etc. and she would be fine attending any of them—which brings us back to the nationals/scholarship question…and then ultimately the final package.</p>
<p>Steve, go to Ping college guide website and they have an area where you can plug in your daughters golf scores and she can compare them to any college tournament in their system. Just remember that college courses are generally harder and longer than junior golf. That website in general is a great resource.</p>
<p>SteveMA: In reading what you’ve written I see the follwoing (please correct the inaccuracies):
The DD (darling daughter) is a top flight golfer who could play top tier D1 golf but would like a major where she will miss much class time due to travel.
She does not want to be a golf professional (Class A teaching or Touring Player).
She does want to compete in college and compete in the NCAA end-of-season events but keep her options academic open for pre-med.</p>
<p>Our company owns and manages golf facilities, so we’re in the business of golf, which is currently struggling in this tepid economy. I was happy to read the D was interested in working in a business other than golf as the industry continues to contract.</p>
<p>It appears you’re steering the DD is the correct direction D III where she can be a true student/athlete. I’m certain you’ve gone down the NESCAC/Patriot/Ancient 8 route, where the student athlete is exactly that. </p>
<p>The interactive scoring conversion is pretty cool. That is the first time I’ve been on there. I will have to show that to DD when she gets home. She actually “placed” higher than we would have thought. Her team plays pretty long courses for high school. Her coach is pretty aware of the difference in the course length in college and pushes them to play longer courses. She is a long ball hitter too so that helps.</p>
-D3 program. It’s a great fit for her and I would have no issues with her going there at all but depending on the day she goes back and forth about nationals/scholarship–and with that scholarship the national singing day ceremony at our school… All of the schools she is considering are good fits academically, socially, etc. and she would be fine attending any of them—which brings us back to the nationals/scholarship question…and then ultimately the final package.</p>