Good decisions?

<p>Hi, this is my first of many posts on this forum.</p>

<p>I am in grade ten, high school in Canada right now and have started to lay out the plans for my future. My grades are all high As in all my subjects, but I have decided to go with physics and computer science. Is this a good choice? On a side note, I am in the basketball team and practice five times a week and swim competitively seven times a week. I think I have a very good chance of making it to a school like harvard or any on that level, but my dad advised me to stay in the city and go to my local university for undergraduates and go to harvard or any school on that level for grad school. Will this be a good move? My dad works in the local university, and went to university of Michigan for grad school. I personally want to go to an ivy for grad school, but I'm in grade ten and really don't know much about this kind of stuff. Thanks in advance for your feedback.</p>

<p>P.s. Also, is it true that ECs don't matter much when applying to grad school?</p>

<p>EC’s don’tmatter when applying for grad school, only your academics+research matter.</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind that “Ivies” are renowned for their undergrad programs. Their graduate programs are often weaker than well-funded canadian universities, especially in engineering or computer science.</p>

<p>Apply to the ivies and you won’t regret it. really =]</p>

<p>That sounds reasonable, but for grad school half the people apply to ivies for the name, is going to a school known everywhere make it easier to get a good job than going to a “normal” school but learning a lot more?</p>

<p>It really depends on where you want to live. If you wish to live in Canada going to an ivey league school IMO will not put you at too much of an advantage…go to uoft or Waterloo for compsci and then consider grad school…however if u wish to enter academia or work in states then ivey is obvious choice…but don’t worry about it now. Worry in grade 12.</p>

<p>I think the grad school rankings matter a lot (strength, reputation, quality, etc. of the program). For example, I’m sure that more people would recruit Biomedical engineers out of JHU than say, Harvard. Same goes for something like Aerospace engineering at Michigan vs. Dartmouth (the Ivy name doesn’t win out). And of course, UT Austin would have much heavier recruitment for something like Petroleum Engineering over any other school in the country. </p>

<p>So, at the grad school level, I really think it comes down to how strong the program is and the reputation it has more than simply the school name. </p>

<p>However, the undergraduate experience at Ivys v. state schools v. Canadian universities may be different. So, there are a lot of factors. If your career path requires a great grad school (and the undergrad school won’t mean much), then go for the big names for grad school (and if you save lots of money for undergrad at a local school you could blow a lot on a great grad school, regardless of if you get financial aid or if it’s a state school and charges 50k+, etc.).</p>

<p>I think it depends on the career path. I hope this makes sense. I’m pretty tired so there are probably some grammatical errors and the like in this post.</p>

<p>(By the way, I heard that Brown’s computer science program is very strong. Correct me if I’m wrong, someone.)</p>

<p>I went Ivy for undergrad and came back to Canada for law school. Ivy admissions are brutally competitive for undergrad. Saying that you stand a very good chance of making Harvard or another school is a little premature. Admissions to Ivy grad schools (I am excluding professional programs such as medicine, law and business) is not nearly as difficult, mostly because US students don’t tend to go to grad school (you will see a a much larger percentage of international grad students than undergrads). Grad school admissions are based on undergrad performance, including GPA, research, recommendations as well as GRE scores. Also, grad school should be cheaper since more financial aid is available to internationals (including teaching and research fellowships). I would advise you to look at schools where you will have the chance to work closely with faculty and do research. This would include LACs, since profs do not have any grad students to supervise and they are more available to work with undergrads (on my visit to Bowdoin last year, the tour guide said that the school has more of its graduates go on to science PhDs than any other school, per capita). If you can make an Ivy or similar school for undergrad and money (or financial aid) are not a problem, I would definitely give it a shot. I would recommend you keep your options open for the time being (pick classes that will allow you to meet the recommended curriculum of the schools you are interested in, do your standardized testing, etc).</p>

<p>The above being said, there may be some merit to what your father and others (see posts by starbright) have said. It’s funny that such statements often come from people working in academia here in Canada (my mom told me the same thing, she worked for McGill and I would have gotten a 25% employee discount on the already cheap tuition had I gone there). I was fortunate, money was not a problem and my father said that I should work on getting into the best school I could and that he would pay. My mom pulled me aside and told me that it was only really worth it if I got into a school that was “better” than McGill. I regret considering only “top” schools as I could have found great schools that would have been a good match had I taken the time to do a thorough search. That being said, things worked out for me and I only regret not staying in the US for grad school (I chickened out and came back to Canada because I thought it would be better to get a professional degree than a simple grad school degree).</p>

<p>Being a father myself (although my eldest is now only 7), I can see where your dad is coming from. First off, there is the question of money. Even with full financial aid, an Ivy will cost your family at least 10% of their yearly income for four years (I am assuming that you do not fall in the under 75-80k range, in which case an Ivy would be essentially free). Beyond the cost, maybe your dad has some reasons for wanting to keep you at home (don’t know if you are a girl or boy, but the double standard thing may be at play). Perhaps he thinks that you are not ready to go away to school on your own (though it is the best way to become independent, even if your parents are picking up the tab!). Maybe he has bad memories of UM which is a hugh school (their football stadium has 100k+ seats!) and is scared of what could happen to you. I can’t really know what his thinking is. I also think that your father may want to shelter you from the pressure and competition (and quite probably the rejection) involved in applying to top US schools.</p>

<p>The other thing to consider, and you may take it for granted now, is that you may not go to grad school. You may burn out in undergrad, be offered a great job at graduation, choose another path, etc. In any of these cases, you will then have missed out on your chance to attend a school in the States and have spent four years living at home when you could have had the chance to live the college experience.</p>

<p>My suggestion to you is that you and your family go on a college tour this summer and visit some campuses. Aim to see schools that vary in size, locale, selectivity, etc. Think about heading to Boston for a week and visiting Harvard, MIT, Tufts, Brandeis, BC, BU, Wellesley (if you are a girl), Northeastern, Amherst, Hampshire, UMASS, etc. Go on the tours (though the campuses will be dead in the summer, you will get an idea of the feel of different schools). Your dad may buy into the idea of sending you away once he has seen some of the schools and you will get a sense of what it is you are looking for.</p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

<p>P.S. if you are in Montreal, I give classes to local high schoolers who plan on applying to US schools, in case you may be interested.</p>

<p>Thank you for your replies, first of all. I have a much better understanding of colleges now :)</p>

<p>@beneli your right, my fault on sounding “cocky”, what i meant to say was that I am active in a lot of ECs, and it’d be a waste if I didn’t try out for an ivy league, because my ECs wouldn’t matter for grad school. Although, I won’t quit my ECs even if I decide to go to my local college. My dad had got me to visit the local college about a month ago, and sit in a few of the classes. Also, the senior professor in the science department has agreed to help me out in the summer, and show me how to use all the equipment etc. The professor worked with someone else and she got to grad school in 3 years rather than 4. I am keeping my options open for now, although I have no idea what I will be in 20 years. </p>

<p>p.s. Unfortunately I don’t live in Montreal :frowning: Oh and Im male and east indian (wear a turban, which might help me for applying to top schools??)</p>

<p>Thank you for the lengthy and great reply once again, it means a lot to me. Sorry for the late reply too lol, I had a swim meet out of town and JUST came back :)</p>

<p>Just wanted to add, if you are a really talented swimmer and are thinking about getting recruited, you can start on that right away by attending swim camps at colleges, sending out a bio, posting your swimming profile online. To get an idea of what kind of time you need to make different schools, look at the results (both college and high school recruits) at [CollegeSwimming.com</a>, Swimming, NCAA, News, Meet Results, Schedule, Top Times, Team Rankings, Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.collegeswimming.com%5DCollegeSwimming.com”>http://www.collegeswimming.com). </p>

<p>Also, if your ultimate goal is academia, you may want to think about always moving up (or at least sticking to a peer institute) rather than down as you go from bachelor to masters to PhD. I mean that if you start at an Ivy, you will want to stay at a high level school for the rest of your schooling (though it doesn’t have to be an Ivy, you will want to go on to a school that is at least as good in your particular field). Anecdote: I had a friend who did his BA at Princeton, his MD at NYU and then his residency at Stony Brook (all good schools, but Americans seem to naturally attribute ranks). When he was applying for a regular position as a physician, the senior doctor who interviewed him read his resume, saw the order of schools, looked up at him and said “What happened?”.</p>

<p>Thanks for the link! I didn’t know that it was possible to be recruited as an international student because my friend has a senior national time (one level below olympics), and he is going to UBC next year. I will have a look and see if I’m close to everyone else. Also, would it be a good idea to get bachelors, masters, and PHD and at the same school?</p>

<p>If you are thinking of going into academia, you will want to get a broad range of learning experiences and to do so, you will have to expose yourself to different colleges, with different faculties, in different places. Say, for example, going to a LAC for undergrad, a big State school with excellent research facilities for your master’s and then on to an Ivy for PhD. You may even want to study abroad for one of your degrees. Look at the credentials of the profs at any good university and you will see that they have jumped around. If you do all three degrees in the same place, you’ll have learned everything the faculty at that school has to teach, but nothing else. Also, if you want to teach, you should know that the school which awards you a PhD will want you to go on to teach at another school rather than hiring you, since you bring them nothing new and they want you to act as an ambassador for them by going out into the word and acting as an example of the type of “product” they put out. So if you want to come home and teach at your local college, think about going away for at least one of your degrees (ideally your PhD, this may be why your dad wants you to wait to go away for your PhD, so you can come back and teach at his school while he retires and moves in with you!). Finally (and this may be just me), staying at your local school for all three degrees would raise questions if you were applying for an academic job (looks like you were lazy, unadventurous, etc.), so you may find yourself having to explain your choice (some people may have good excuses, such as having to take care of a sick parent, etc).</p>

<p>This is everything I have planned so far-> please advise :)</p>

<p>1) Go to local college for 3 or 4 years, depending on how fast i finish it with the help of a proffessor.</p>

<p>2) Go to mcgill/michigan for masters-> would it be better to stay in canada and go to mcgill or go to michigan? I’m a legacy at Michigan.</p>

<p>3) Go to an ivy for my PHD</p>

<p>p.s. this coming summer, im planning to visit my local college once again and participate in a few more classes.</p>

<p>Whoa! You certainly seem to have your next 10-12 years mapped out! I always advise that you keep your options open, so make sure that whatever you do, you are not closing any doors(e.g take the SAT at some point just in case). You may well be turned off by a school, a major, a profession, etc, at some point, so make sure your choices allow you to easily make a transition to something else (this is why Americans are so big on liberal arts education, 17 year olds are rarely able to decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives).</p>

<p>Having said that, you will have to keep your grades up throughout all of this. Also, you should note that legacy doesn’t really count for grad school (neither for your father as a grad school alum nor for you as a grad school applicant). Grad school admissions are more merit based (grades, recs and GRE), so you will want to work on these during undergrad.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Again, the Ivy name is so much more applicable to undergrad than grads. people in silicon valley would just laugh at a CS PhD from Dartmouth or Brown. </p>

<p>Legacy, EC’s, and all that admissions fluff are for undergrads, you won’t get that in real academia</p>

<p>^ +1 </p>

<p>At the grad school level, it’s all about reputation, program strength, and the name-brand IN THE FIELD (not the ‘Ivy’ name or all that jazz). Something like a Michigan/UT/GTech/Purdue engineering PhD trumps an Ivy engineering PhD. At the grad school level it’s all about the program and rep.</p>

<p>I would even go as far as saying an undergrad engineering degree from Michigan is more marketable than an engineering degree from any Ivy. (I use Michigan as the school that symbolizes all the strong state school engineering programs in the US, not because I’m biased).</p>

<p>Are really good grad schools still hard to get into like the ivies for undergrad? Also, to get into grad school, will they care about which undergrad college you went to or only your grades, research, etc.</p>

<p>^Not sure how much the undergrad school name matters, but to get into a top grad school I’d imagine that the following are quite important: GPA, grad school admissions test score, letters of rec., research, and a great interview. </p>

<p>Things like publications, awesome internships, and more help that much more.</p>

<p>Okay here are the things:
Always keep your options open (like how everyone else said) and also have back up plans, but make sure your back up plans are something you will still be HAPPY with.</p>

<p>I also just went to a career event where bunch of professionals in different areas come and answer questions and so on. What they all said was, just study what makes you happy and not worry about school names. After all the education and into the real world, employers don`t really care too much about school names, but what kind of a life style you lead and that you are commited. </p>

<p>p.s. Remember to consider a school that has a really good Co-op Program!</p>