Good News Bad News

<p>FYI, Project on Student Debt says that Rice DOESN’T have an income cap for limited (10k) loans… just for no loans.</p>

<p>I believe the FA officers when they say that the formula is the same for ED and RD, because ED admits CAN back out due to insufficient funding. (Plus, there hasn’t been a whistleblower yet.) For schools that are only mostly need-blind, like Smith, ED is definitely an advantage because they will only go need-aware at the end of the RD process.</p>

<p>For MERIT-based aid, ED is logically a disadvantage. But need-based aid is contingent on the premise that your family really can’t afford the school otherwise, so why would they risk losing ED admits?</p>

<p>Posted below is an email which my son, who did not apply to Rice or otherwise show interest, received. It seems to imply that Rice will not cost anything to those families who make less than $80,000 per year. However, they don’t specify that those who make below $80,000 may be evaluated to not have much if any need. Depending on how they evaluate, perhaps the magic number is $80,000? I seem to remember the OP posted $85,000. Perhaps the OP’s child could take a gap year (approved by Rice with guaranteed matriculation the next year) and if the family makes a lot less money, or even below $80,000 this coming year, receive a much better financial package?</p>

<p>"We know these are challenging economic times for many students and their families. Rice remains committed to meeting the full demonstrated need of all admitted students, and our admission process is need-blind for all U.S. citizens and Permanent Residents.</p>

<p>We invite you to learn more about Financial Assistance and merit scholarships at Rice. Among the highlights you will find:</p>

<pre><code>* For families whose income is $80,000 or less, Rice will meet 100% of need without student loans.

  • For families whose income is above $80,000, and who demonstrate need eligibility, we will meet 100% of need, and your student loans will not exceed $10,000 total over your four years here.
  • Thirty percent of the freshman class will receive a merit scholarship. Merit scholarships range from $1,000 to full tuition.
    </code></pre>

<p>Your college education is one of the biggest investments you’ll make in your lifetime. You’ve worked hard to get where you are, and you should surround yourself with the best minds in the world. This is not the time to compromise.</p>

<p>Click here to apply for admission. Be decisive. Choose Rice.</p>

<p>Yours sincerely,</p>

<p>Julie Browning
Dean for Undergraduate Enrollment"</p>

<p>It sounds wonderful, doesn’t it? I think the kicker is the line that says:</p>

<p>“For families whose income is above $80,000, and who demonstrate need eligibility, we will meet 100% of need”</p>

<p>because Rice has the power to determine who demonstrates “need eligibility” and in what amount.</p>

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<p>Unless I’m misreading this…it does NOT say that Rice will not cost ANYTHING to students with family income under $80K…it says Rice will meet FULL NEED for students with incomes under $80K.</p>

<p>That would mean that if the family contribution was calculated to be $20,000 (which could very well be with a family with an $80K yearly income), Rice would provide aid to make up the difference between THAT family contribution and the cost of attendance with an aid package not including loans. The FAMILY would still be responsible for paying their family contribution.</p>

<p>Am I misinterpreting this?</p>

<p>I also wonder when they say income - do they mean AGI on the 1040 - or do they have some other way of calculating it. Labelness - I am wondering - what will your AGI on your 2010 1040 look like? I know you said earlier that your GROSS income was around $115,000 - but what about your AGI - which would be the income number at the very bottom of the first page of the 1040?</p>

<p>Thumper - I agree with you 100%. And this is where people have to read carefully and understand FA terminology. They state they will meet 100% of need without student loans - but THEY calculate the need - not the family. If the family with an income of $79,000 has a $20,000 EFC - that family has to come up with that $20,000 - and they may end up taking out loans to do it. This verbiage IN NO WAY implies that families with incomes under $80,000 will pay nothing. Not even close.</p>

<p>Agree with r’villemom and thumper - - Rice is promising grant money (and work-study) to meet demonstrated need; the family must still come up with its share, which is the EFC as determined by Rice’s institutional formula. It would be foolish for a school to promise a free ride to all families with income under $80K regardless of assets. (I wouldn’t be surprised if the school also considered the source of the income - - ie: what if the $79K is annual income generated from a trust?)</p>

<p>Another really important distinction is that Rice uses institutional methodology - which counts home equity. If our fictitious example family with a $79,000 income has substantial equity in their home - Rice might determine they have no need whatsoever. This differs from FAFSA-only schools - they use Federal methodology - and do not count home equity.</p>

<p>Home equity is one of the tricky beasts of FA. Many schools will actually treat it more generously than standard institutional methodology, although they don’t advertise it. For example, Swarthmore explained their policies in more granular detail in response to a student petition in 2008:</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/documents/administration/financialaid/petition_response.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/documents/administration/financialaid/petition_response.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I did a quick google search on rice financial aid and I found a brochure from rice. While it may be a few years old, it seems that your EFC and the one they put in their brochure as a sample package for a family with similar income was pretty spot on.</p>

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<p>Sybbie… It’s old, and I think the example must be of a household with lots and lots of assets. We make more than that, and our Rice EFC was about $25000, and my son does not have a preferential package or anything like that. Something doesn’t add up with the numbers the OP has given us, because the EFC is not in line with income. Perhaps she made a mistake on the Profile form? (I remember the first time I filled it out, I accidently listed the mandatory retirement payments in the wrong place and that affected my FA - I fixed it later…) Several years ago, someone complained on here about their Rice FA package - it turned out a huge mistake had been made, and some numbers transposed or put in the wrong place, and Rice ended up giving her a very good financial aid package.<br>
She should really meet in person with the FA people and bring all the forms, and see if any mistakes were made… :)</p>

<p>The one silver lining is that Rice does allow students to withdraw from ED. Normally the deadline to commit or withdraw is January 2nd, but in the OP’s case if the family is appealing the aid, I would ask Rice to grant an extension to the deadline. </p>

<p>Prior to reading about Rice’s policy on another school’s thread, I had no idea ED students anywhere had such an option.</p>

<p>2blue - ED applicants pretty much always have the ability to forfeit their acceptance if they have applied for FA and it is insufficient. Doesn’t mean it will be fun to do - but yes - it can be done. The ED school cannot force you to attend - they cannot force people to pay money they don’t have. Obviously, the ED school wants the accepted student to attend - so there is a common goal and maybe some room for discussion/negotiation. But in the end - if anyone cannot afford their ED school - they can back out.</p>

<p>This is for folks reading next year (OP knows this now)… </p>

<p>Yes, you can back out of ED if you unaffordable. But you can’t change your mind a few months later. Even if the other less appealing school didn’t have better offers.</p>

<p>If you need to comparison shop on college costs, JUST SAY NO to ED.</p>

<p>Absolutely - agreed. The other suggestion I would make to any parents of juniors reading this thread is that if you want to have your child apply ED for the admissions boost - but you need FA - see if the school FA officer will meet with you in person to discuss FA and give you an “early read”. Perhaps the parents can do this while the child is interviewing or attending a class. I know some smaller schools will do this - don’t know about the larger ones - but worth a try. Otherwise - it is such a gamble - and the situation OP is in - where the student is accepted at their first choice ED school - but the parents cannot afford it - I would not wish on anyone.</p>

<p>The key, as others have pointed out, is “MEETS NEED.” That means that Rice will compute the COA and the EFC (remember that a Profile EFC can differ from a FAFSA EFC), and Rice will determine what combination of grants/work study/loans will be used to meet need. Another point to ponder is “earns” … this is not the language used for a FAFSA EFC. FAFSA EFC is based on earned income, AGI, and taxes paid. If Rice uses earned income & not AGI for the $80k cut-off, this can be a real surprise. I have seen very high INCOME families get Pell grants because they have so many business write offs, S corporation losses, etc. This is where a Profile school can provide a huge surprise to families with business income (and losses).</p>

<p>rockvillemom, I should have been clearer in my post. Rice’s policy is that you have till a certain date, Jan. 2nd this year, to withdraw from an ED acceptance. There’s nothing stipulating it has to be due to financial reasons. Evidently if a kid just gets cold feet and changes their mind, as long as they withdraw by that deadline it is okay. That’ s what I meant about not knowing of any other school with such a policy.</p>

<p>2blue - that is interesting then - had not heard of that before. In the OP’s case - I think they will need to request a time extension to give them adequate time to meet with Rice FA folks - see if there is something that can be adjusted - complete their 2010 1040 - see if that changes anything, etc. But I have never heard of a school giving ED students such latitude to cancel their acceptance - actually not sure if it is such a good idea - kind of dilutes the whole point of applying ED.</p>

<p>I am back. Read the feed back and had just assumed I was going to send my H, VERY reluctantly and my D to Rice with papers in hand and talk to them in person. I was going to send them next Friday which means Monday I had better call for an extension. You guys are great, thanx.</p>

<p>OP, I found this statement on Rice’s web site:

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<p>Isn’t Monday the 3rd? Also, we will have the Monday off as holiday and I am not sure if Rice does that too.</p>