Good News Bad News

Parents Forum
41

<p>The real problem is that students are applying ED to insanely expensive colleges, which encourage such applications while doing everything they can to hide the cost of attendance and downplaying how the financial aid system really works (rather, doesn’t work).</p>

<p>There’s lots of shiny pages in a college viewbook - there oughta be a law that says the cost of one year’s attendance is printed in 96 point type right on the front cover. Truth in advertising.</p>

<p>The only ones “gaming the system” here are ED colleges - they’re trying to lock college-bound students and families into six-figure debt loads that they’ll have to tote around for a decade or more.</p>

42

<p>

</p>

<p>If you applied to a 50K school that uses both the FAFSA and the profile, the schools have determined that based on your income/assets that you should be able to pay the balance.</p>

<p>It would be great if you can put some things in context.<br>
The type of school, Private, public?<br>
Does the school claim to meet 100% demonstrated need as not all schools do.
Does the school have a large endowment?</p>

<p>The biggest downside to ED is that you do not get to compare financial aid packages. You do not know down the line if you are going to get a better package or worse package. You may end up giving up the dream school only to find out when it comes to comprably priced schools that it was your best offer. </p>

<p>If you have a really high EFC, you may have to also brace yourself that you are probably going to get a similar financial aid package at schools that use the same methodology to grant need based aid. IN short, similar schools are probably also going to be financially out of reach so they should come off the table now.</p>

<p>D will need to look at schools where she is at the top of the applicant pool and eligible for some type of merit money.</p>

<p>YOu may have to look at your local state u/state flagship u even though you may end up being full pay, that it could be the more affordable option.</p>

43

<p>“Gaming the system” is being accepted ED, sending in a deposit and confirming your intention to attend, and then waiting for your RD acceptances and bailing on your ED school if you get a better offer or you just change your mind or whatever. “Gaming the system” is keeping your options open when you’ve told the ED school you are attending.</p>

<p>Getting released from an ED agreement because you can’t afford what they think you can afford, and doing so by the deadline to confirm your intention to enroll – that is not “gaming the system”.</p>

44

<p>labelness, one strategy that your D could try is applying to schools that are known for giving good merit aid. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/63770-best-schools-give-most-merit-based-aid.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/63770-best-schools-give-most-merit-based-aid.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Have her apply at schools where her stats would have put her near the top of last year’s freshman class. This will make her attractive in terms of merit aid. I forget where those numbers are available – could someone please post that info for labelness? Thanks.</p>

<p>ETA: Here’s another thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52133-schools-known-good-merit-aid.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52133-schools-known-good-merit-aid.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

45

<p>“Since merit $ and need-based FA can’t be combined, many families end up chasing one or the other.”</p>

<p>My son is getting a package which includes both merit aid and institutional aid. </p>

<p>To the OP. I am sorry for the situation you have found yourself in. I second the poster who suggested looking at the Good Merit Aid thread and find schools where you D’s stats are at the high end.</p>

46

<p>

</p>

<p>My D’s FA package was 2/3 merit scholarship and 1/3 need based scholarship. She kept the same amount all 4 years as our financial situation did not change during that time. So she, too, received both merit and need based.</p>

47

<p>Don’t beat yourself up over this. You did your best with what you knew at the time. Call/email the college and decline. You can’t reverse the clock.</p>

<p>You have a good indication now of what other schools believe you can afford based on finances alone.</p>

<p>My rule of thumb on ED is that she cannot now choose to attend another school where you have to pay more / or the same amount of money to attend than the ED school. If other same caliber schools offer her better financial/merit aid I see no problem with letting her attend. </p>

<p>Decide if she has enough applications out or if she needs to do more. Make sure she has applied to schools that offer merit aid and that she is in the top 10% of student stats at SOME of these.</p>

<p>Tell your daughter you are sorry you didn’t know more at the time. Tell her that for the entire family’s financial security you cannot take on this amount of debt. </p>

<p>College acceptances and financial aid packages bring extreme highs and lows of emotions. You just have to roll with it now and see what you have when the dust clears.</p>

<p>For my son in general the higher the rank of the school the less merit aid he was awarded. There were a few outliers.</p>

48

<p>Thank-you all for your imput, even the ones that made me feel dumber than I already do. I read the thread on the slick look of college brochures, looked mine over and found a lovely graph in the financial aid brochure that shows the “average package” in our income range is $20,323- not $4000.00. </p>

<p>And here is the context: we make around $85,000 a year except this year where we got a big bump because my husband is a boat captain and he went to work the BP oil spill, so now around 108,000… We have not saved like we should have (around 20,000) but</p>

49

<p>Labelness. The average package probably includes student loans and expected student income from on campus job.</p>

<p>i would call and ask for a review and an understanding of their offer. I would also ask how next years bump in income (+23,000) and less savings (- 20,000 that you spend on this yrs tuition) will affect the package. Do they reassess every year? COA has been rising 6% a year so that in 3 yrs the cost will be an additional 18%.</p>

<p>Do you have too many assets?</p>

50

<p>labelness, you have some great suggestions here, especially calling the school and just talking to the FA people. Things are changing all the time and they will (or they should) be interested in doing whatever possible for an ED admit. It likely won’t be enough…but still you will get answers. I don’t think any school would force a family who can’t pay to sign an ED contract, anymore than a bank would FORCE someone to get a mortgage. It doesn’t make financial sense for them.</p>

<p>Maybe you do have too many assets? In any event you have been trying to do the best by your family in a difficult economy. Pulling out of an ED agreement for financial reasons is not the same as changing your mind. There are plenty of others who will be happy to have that space, and it sounds like your daughter understands the situation and probably understands that she can get a great education elsewhere. Good luck, and don’t beat yourself up-- the world will beat you up plenty on its own.</p>

51

<p>Labelness- ditto the advice to speak directly to the FA people when they reopen their offices. We are almost in exactly the same range as you and did much better at private colleges.</p>

52

<p>Labelness, do not kick yourself! You sound like you have done a terrific job, just been overwhelmed and taken in like 99% of families.</p>

<p>I went through this 4 years ago, before the financial meltdown. My S1 applied to lots of fancy schools, I looked at my income percentile and said, if other family’s can afford to pay for college, of course I can too, and pretty much didn’t think about it again… remembering the generous and easy and sensible loans I took out for my 5th year of college and to add to my need scholarships for the first 4 years, thinking of home equity, assuming the colleges would understand that I just had to pay private school tuition for my special needs S2, and that s1 was so terrific every school would give him merit aid.</p>

<p>We didn’t do ED, but the time to make decisions after acceptances is very short (you need to choose dorms, majors, orientations etc) and when we got zero aid and zero merit at top choices… wow it was eye opening! So I really, really, really, really feel for you.</p>

<p>We explained to our son just what we would need to do financially to put him through the top tier schools where we would pay 100% (we had some savings, little because we had worked in poverty programs until recently going to richer non profits), or if he went to the privates that did give him solid merits aid. In the end, on his own weighing pros and cons, he chose the state’s flagship school honors program… </p>

<p>And then the financial crisis came, and we wake up thankful every morning that we have jobs, and didn’t sign away our shrunken home equity and that he’ll graduate debt free.</p>

<p>But… not saying never make the financial sacrifice. We may do it for son2, who has completely different needs… but we know to go into the “shopping” process with the financial thinking much clearer.</p>

<p>However this comes down, your daughter will do fantastically well. Lay all these factors out with her and help her see how colleges get you to jump in with unrealistic expectations… and without burdening her, also let her help you analyze the pros and cons.</p>

53

<p>I can not thank everyone here enough. I’ve cried, commeserated, and I now have some idea of how to procede. I guess I shouldn’t tell you that before posting here I had sent an e-mail to the school’s FA asking for suggestions as to what we could do to improve our packet; that was before I knew what exactly need-based was; I just knew my needs were not matching theirs (LOL). Part of the e-mail stated that I considered a debt of $100,000.00 as being irresponsible. You know this whole post may be a moot point, they might let us out of our contract just to get rid of the crazy, and until now, misinformed Mom. Question: what is a flagship school?</p>

54

<p>Notrichenough, It was a common application school. Thank-you-I think your handle says it all.</p>

55

<p>A flagship university is the “main” public university in your state. Examples are Ohio State, University of Michigan, University of CT. Most states have a flagship U…some don’t (New York, for example has the SUNY system but I don’t believe any ONE school is considered their "flagship).</p>

<p>Your state should have at least a couple of public universities. Check them out.</p>

56

<p>just curious…in 2009 when your daughter was a junior, you posted on another thread that your husband was retired…and you were a teacher. Is that still the case or did your husband come out of retirement to take the captain’s job? If this is a one time situation and your husband is REALLY retired and had this ONE opportunity to work this past year, this should be explained to the financial aid department at the school. They might make an adjustment…and then again…they might not.</p>

57

<p>I am not saying OP is doing this. But every year we seem to have a couple of people trying to game the system with ED. </p>

<p>When I started to learn about US college application many years ago, I did not know anything about EA or ED. So DD did all her application RD in 2008. My point, if one had enough knowlege about applying on ED, one should have known about the FA situation. </p>

<p>There was a long long thread last year about how “binding” is ED contract and whether it is ethical to back out if you could make it but just don’t want to.</p>

58

<p>

While their app doesn’t say anything, a search of Elon’s web site turned up this on an Elon newsletter:</p>

<p>

That newsletter is several years old, it’s possible things have changed.</p>

<p>

Columbia, and all the Ivy’s, now accept the Common Application.</p>

59

<p>labelness, STOP!!! You are not evil, criminal, or crazy if you walk away from this “contract.” No one can force you to send your kid to a school you can’t afford. Please please please get that idea out of your head. Many, and I do mean many parents have found themselves in this precise position; it happens every day. The school is not going to come arrest you or attach a lien to your house, or even think bad things about you. If you pull out, they’ll simply move on to the next student. So:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Take a deep breath and forgive yourself. You are not a bad person.</p></li>
<li><p>Talk to FA on the phone. They might very well be on campus during the first part of next week. </p></li>
<li><p>If they cannot improve the package enough, put it behind you and help your D find other schools which might offer better aid. Also help her find in-state public schools you could afford if no aid is offered. (Cost info is readily available on every college’s website, or you can google “XYZ University Cost of Attendance.”)</p></li>
<li><p>Many a university graduate started out with 2 years at community college, and then transferred to a 4-year school. They end up with the degree they wanted, at half the cost. Think seriously about that option.</p></li>
<li><p>Remind yourself that you raised a wonderful, intelligent daughter. Know that many, if not most, students suffer some sort of trauma around college admissions – there are few households in which tears are NOT shed during winter/spring of senior year. Wherever she ends up, I have a feeling that she will be fine.</p></li>
</ol>

60

<p>Labelness - you have rcvd wonderful advice here and I am really hoping that when you speak with the FA office in January you will either get more aid or be pleasantly released from the ED agreement.</p>

<p>I think you mentioned other acceptances - did any of them have better FA?</p>

<p>My experience with S1 in 2009 was that the FA pkgs varied widely from one school to another - because while the EFC remained the same - there is some degree of preferential packaging also going on. If you ever want to read a great description of preferential packaging - go to the Muhlenberg College website and read an article called the Real Deal on Financial Aid. The gist of it is that 2 kids with the same EFC may get different packages - if the university really wants one kid - maybe they have higher stats or some other qualities - they will get a better package. So - while EFC plays a big role - there are other factors at play as well.</p>

<p>Let us know how it turns out.</p>

<p>PS - I have also found this website very helpful:</p>

<p><a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid;

<p>And here’s the Muhlenberg link - applies to many colleges:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.muhlenberg.edu/main/admissions/realdeal.html[/url]”>http://www.muhlenberg.edu/main/admissions/realdeal.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;