I’m a prospective ED applicant for Cornell’s undergraduate College of Engineering. In October, I took 3 Subject Tests, the Physics, and both Maths. Yesterday I got my scores back, and let’s just say I’m not very pleased.
I got a 720 on the physics and a 640 on the math 1 and 620 on the math 2. The physics is manageable, but the maths are horrible.
Simply explained, I had no idea I wanted to apply to Cornell early decision or apply to Ivy’s at all until about a week before the Subject Tests. I had taken the SAT a few times this year and didn’t stop until the August SAT when I was satisfied with my scores, so that left me only the October and November test dates to take the Subject Tests.
I took AP Physics Junior year and got a 4 on the exam, so all I had to do was teach myself the Physics 2 stuff so that I would know all the content on the test. Sadly, I gave myself a week to review all the Physics 1 stuff, and barely understood what I taught myself from Physics 2. I ended up with a 720, but I know with more studying time I could have done infinitely better.
My Math 1 and 2 were a different animal. I know Math well and am currently taking AP Calculus and thriving, so higher math isn’t new to me. I simply had a bad test day and was bogged down from getting almost no sleep while attempting to study for the Phsyics exam, and wasn’t in the right place when it came time to take them. I left plenty blank and guessed on a decent amount as well. I knew I did poorly.
The issue is that my SAT score does not correspond with this at all. My split is a 780 on the math and 760 on the English. Admissions counselors may see my math subject tests and question the legitimacy of my math section score.
I take plenty of EC’s and am the President of National Honor Society at my school, as well as a tri-season track athlete. I got a 5 on my AP English and consider my essays to be a strong point on my application, as well as my letters of Rec.
I have taken advanced, honors and AP math courses since middle school and consistently scored 95 or above in each of my courses. I’d like to think I’m a good math student. As such, I want to take the Math 2 Subject test again in November so that I can show that my poor scores were merely a fluke. The thing is, I’m still applying Early Decision and I’m not sure if it will reach admissions in time before they make a decision. I’m stressing and not sure what to think of this. Can the low math scores break my application?
The rest of your application would need to be perfect for those math subject test scores not to raise a lot of red flags. Especially since it’s both math 1 and 2 that were sub 700. You may want to reconsider applying ED, retake, and apply RD.
I’ve read up on this and heard of people getting accepted into the College of Engineering with worse scores. You don’t think that they would see my grades and SAT score and come to the conclusion that it may have been a fluke? I emailed the admissions office yesterday expressing my concerns, and asked if they would accept a November Subject Test for ED. I am scared to put off ED to apply RD because I don’t think a higher subject test score will outweigh the advantage of completely committing to the school in advance.
Anecdotesc aren’t proofs. Your app needs to be spot on. That means learning what Cornell looks for, expects, from academic strengths to the breadth and depth of ECs. Then the personal qualities they look for. Show, not just tell.
They review the full app and supps. Just saying someone had xx scores is one data point, not the full picture.
One test would be a fluke, but not both math subject tests.
I see your reasoning. It was just an awful day for me. Flukes tend to happen on whole sittings, not just sections of a test. Moreover. Would you consider the Subject Tests a truly important facet of the application, or moreso a simple prerequisite? If the latter is true I think applying ED is still the way to go, because it holds far greater weight than a single number, especially amongst a sea of greater numbers.
ED does not hold greater weight, except for the most qualified students. It’s not magic dust. Lots of the kids who get an early admit are athletes, some proportion will be legacies.
Rather than trying to convince yourself, make sure you offer the right ‘rest of it.’ You know your physics is a wee bit on the low side, there’s the 4 in AP, and we have no idea of your ECs, whether they’re on target.
Cornell says that standardized test scores are very important factors in admission consideration (per the common data set). It doesn’t specify how SAT II tests are viewed. Certainly apply ED if you are more comfortable. I’m just giving you my opinion.
I appreciate the honesty guys. I am trying to convince myself that I’m in a better position than I am, and obviously, being my own yes man isn’t going to help.
Momofsenior, in regards to the SAT1, I believe I am doing well. The reported average SAT is a 1480 at Cornell, and I have a 1540. I think that works in my favor.
Lookingforward, my ECs/Notables consist of:
•President of National Honor Society
•Member of World Language Honor Society
•Peer Leadership Officer (organize charitable events and lead younger students, Officer is the highest position)
•Debate club Junior and Senior year
•Taking all Highest difficulty classes possibly offered (APs, Honors, College-Level)
•I plan to take computer engineering; as such, I have taken and done well in College Level and AP Computer science (95+, have not taken the AP exam yet but expect to do well)
•3x High Honors recipient (Unweighted average of 95+)
•XC all four years, All-League top runner Junior year
•Basketball Freshman and Sophomore year
•Winter track Junior and Senior Year, A-Team Relay runner
•Spring track all four years, 3x Section champion and A-team relay runner
(I do not plan on running in college)
•Rensselaer Medal Recipient (awarded to most distinguished math and science student in Junior class)
•Nomination of Superior Writing (awarded to most distinguished writer in Junior class, entry into NCTE essay contest)
•My class rank is top 5%
•Cerified Lifeguard at a large town pool for 2 years. My employer is writing me a supplementary letter of rec bc she feels I have done an outstanding job
My school is small (600 or so students). I believe I am a standout student at my school, but as far as nationally, I’m sure I’m nothing special. Our guidance counselors like to tell us that admissions counselors care a lot about relative performance (what was done as compared to what was available).
Forgot to mention, my hooks are that I am a first-generation college student and was born in Lebanon and moved to the states when I was young. I have competed in competitions urging diversity in young business leaders as well.
@marcerino ,
I think people are trying to help you be more realistic about your reach. You have said you did SAT a few times until you got satisfactory scores. You said you are better than your subject scores showed, etc. You were not well prepared for the subject tests. That concerns me. Cornell’s school of engineering is very tough to get in and tough to stay in.
In my D year (2017), both Val and Sal were not accept to Cornell. (Sal was the President of NHS). The four that were accepted were not top 10. Top 20, maybe. My D was not even in the NHS. There are many other ways to show your strengtn and qualifications besides having those titles.
Be prepared to do your best regarding putting together the applications. Think about how to make yourself stand out in a crowd that many have better scores and more accomplishments (on paper) than you.
And be ready if you are rejected. About 90% of Cornell applicants were rejected last year.
@marcerino I saw you write on another thread that the feedback on Cornell CoE and subject tests is mixed. I don’t think it is mixed.
Cornell straight up says they require subject tests for CoE (one math, one science). I agree with posters that if sent, your math 2 score would put your app at a disadvantage, so you might consider not applying ED. If you take Math 2 again, the score will not get to Cornell in time for ED (although you could reach out to admissions and ask this). I would completely drop the idea of taking Math 1, it is irrelevant to CoE and will not help your app even if you do well.
Lastly, you haven’t told us your unweighted GPA, other schools you are applying to or what your budget is. Without knowing that, we can’t really help you formulate an application strategy.
When you apply to a tippy top, with a top engineering program, you need more than classes. The Rensselaer is good, but what math-sci ECs? I’m not sure you understand the nature of ED here. Or the competition. What’s your GC say?
rphcfb, May I ask, what did your daughter show that really stood out?
I would not apply to these schools if I didn’t know that they were challenging programs, in fact, that is their main draw to me.
Mwfan, the only reason I took Math 1 is because at the CoE info session they stated they did not care which Math was sent, they would just consider the highest of the two. Regardless, if I’m retaking, I’m retaking Math 2.
You asked about my UW GPA and budget:
•UW about a 95. Weighted about a 97. On a 4.0 UW scale I have a 4.0 or very close to that, and probably around 4.2 weighted. I can check soon just to make sure.
•My budget is quite low. I qualify for a lot of financial aid from schools that cover most need.
Other schools I am strongly considering:
•RPI (middle chance)
•BC (middle chance)
•Northeastern (middle chance)
•Brown (reach)
•Columbia (reach)
•Binghamton (safety)
•Stony Brook (safety)
The following probably won’t fit my financial situation:
•Villanova
•BU
Thanks again for your help, everyone. I appreciate it. If you have any other college suggestions based on my stats, please share. As of right now, I am only applying Early to Cornell. The rest are RD and haven’t been submitted yet.
lookingforward, I am lacking in that regard. I have not done any science research and there is a lack of math and science clubs offered at my school in general, save for things like Enviroment Club, which I have no interest in. My biggest regret as of right now is not participating in ISR, which is a 3-year research course offered at my school.
She applied for CAS in Humanities (the other three were accepted to the engineering school but only two attended).
My D knew what she wanted to major in. It is a small department at Cornell (tbh, pretty much everywhere) She researched a few related programs and initiatives and found one that matched her interest. In her “Why Cornell?” essay, she wrote about how this intiative related to her major and background. Very relevant and geniune. We thought her Common App personal essay also helped got her in. It was unique and tied everything about her and her interests together. It was an essay that, if she dropped it, people who knew her would easily recognize who wrote it. Not generic at all.
We found out later that that year CAS acceptance rate was only 6%, lower than the enginerring school’s. Generally, most people perceive that the engineering school is harder to get in.
You are up against many excellent students. You need to find a way to show them that they should pick you over others.
Thanks for sharing her story. I’ll keep that noted. It seems my best option is to raise my score and apply Regular Decision, unless their response states otherwise.