<p>I got off of the wait list for UC Berkeley, and don't know if I want to go. My other option is a good LAC, and considering I want to get Ph.D. and enjoy small seminars, I don't know if Berkeley is the right decision for a student majoring in the social sciences. It seems like a really brutal school academically and very impersonal. I'm also worried about access to faculty.</p>
<p>Any advice on Massive State Flagship vs. Highly Ranked LAC? </p>
<p>Net price at each?</p>
<p>Is the LAC Bard?</p>
<p>Is your main interest political science/studies or international relations?</p>
<p>If you want actual help for your situation, such specifics would help others help you. Although there is the risk of several school-partisans and LAC-vs.-RU-partisans descending on your thread with their usual generalizations and arguments with each other, the risk is even greater, with less likelihood of useful information for you, if you do not give specifics.</p>
<p>I’m sure you could make UC Berkeley a personal experience, as long as you make the effort to talk to the professors during Office Hours. The social sciences, depending on your focus, might be less impersonal than some of the other undergrad departments. And there are great professors there, of course. As there probably also are at the LAC you’re considering. I think your education will be fine at both - depending on your own personality and what advantage you’ll take of your situation. My own son chose an LAC while his best friend was at Berkeley. Both got great educations. Both were happy with their choices.</p>
<p>The faculty are there during office hours so there is some access, although I have had profs say not to disturb them outside of that time. </p>
<p>You need to decide which environment is a better fit for you, there are stark differences between the two.</p>
<p>if you enjoy small seminars and close relationship to professors, I would think a LAC would make more sense than Berkeley.
However would you go into debt above the federal limit to go to the LAC?</p>
<p>Keep in mind that Berkeley is by no means a mediocre school for undergraduates. According to a USNEWS survey of college administrators, it’s considered one of the national research universities which is the most ‘undergraduate focused’, in fact. Could you name the LAC? It might let people help you a bit more.</p>
<p>are you instate or OOS?</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that Berkeley is a great school in many fields for undergraduate (even more so because you were waitlisted in the first place) but knowing your specific concentration would be nice to actually see which school would be better, also Berkeley may cost more like bluebayou said though depending on IS or OOS.</p>
<p>Hello Everyone,</p>
<p>Thank you so much! This is a longer post, and I’m sorry about that. </p>
<p>Yes, the LAC is Bard. My cost is identical at both, completely the same. </p>
<p>At Bard I would study International Relations or Human Rights and Philosophy.</p>
<p>At Berkeley I would double major in one of several things depending on what clicks: International Political Economy (what I got in for), Environmental Economics and Policy, Peace and Conflict Studies and Geography interest me as possible double majors. I would like to minor in Public Policy, Rhetoric, or Philosophy. Willing to consider a number of major/minor combinations. </p>
<p>Geography isn’t a hard science the way most people think; the science is split between a couple of other fields. Geo is a lot closer to international development coupled with macro-econ. Just scroll down to Economy, Culture, and Society if you want a look.</p>
<p><a href=“http://geography.berkeley.edu/undergrad/program.php”>http://geography.berkeley.edu/undergrad/program.php</a></p>
<p>The lack of course offerings at Bard doesn’t scare me. I don’t mind. It’s more the social aspect (as well as course structure) of both schools that worries me as well as class size/opportunity. </p>
<p>I have a couple of more questions I wanted to toss into the mix. </p>
<p>What is the social life like at CAL? At Bard?</p>
<p>How bad are the funding problems (1000 person video monitor lectures still a thing?) at Berkeley?</p>
<p>How hard is it to get into student government, onto the newspaper, and into undergraduate research as a freshman and sophomore at both schools? </p>
<p>How impersonal is Berkeley really?</p>
<p>Is Berkeley a party school? I need a calmer environment during the academic week. </p>
<p>Which school is more challenging in the rote work sense? I would like to think I have enough intellectual candle power to succeed, just I CAN’T handle endless memorization.</p>
<p>What are the people like at both schools? I’m from a fairly affluent and very diverse community in So-Cal: I want to avoid the really “fake” people I’m surrounded by here. I know fake is a pretty broad term, but there is a lot of pseudo liberalism/egalitarianism/sensitivity/intellectualism and “typical” Cali people out here. It’s not the mannerisms/hipsterisms that bother me. I don’t mind those views and ideas in reality, but what we have in So-Cal is just annoying. I like intellectual people with ideas who are open to debate and appreciate diverse people, views and ideas as part of their lives: I don’t appreciate the super typical So-Cal liberal who’s just like “republicanz r dum” and takes every dialogue as a personal affront.</p>
<p>What about transfer prospects out of both? I really wanted to go to Georgetown or U-Chicago, didn’t get in to either. If I hate it, how hard will getting into one of those schools be? </p>
<p>If it matters I much prefer term papers and take home exams to structured testing. I know both have both, but curious as to the prevalence. </p>
<p>I’d do Berkeley, hands down</p>
<p>Bard College is OK but let’s be honest…UC Berkeley is so much better. </p>
<p>@ocnative Your comment is everything that is wrong with the college admissions process.</p>
<p>Generally what I recommend is that you should visit. A few years ago I visited colleges while I was in the US. Goodness, I could not believe UPenn’s size! (Columbia seemed more compact and doable but I did not like the idea of going to college in a city. Sarah Lawrence and Vassar seemed perfect, though.) I knew there and then that I wanted something smaller, and consequently applied to small liberal arts colleges only (and a few huge ones in Australia but those were safety schools). It’s very easy to tell what you would prefer, especially if you overnight at those schools.</p>
<p>Bard is very hipster, and a little hippie too. Think Vassar, but less mainstream. Berkeley is fantastic though, but it’s going to be impersonal, at least not nearly as personal as Bard. </p>
<p>Transfer prospects will depend on you, not on the college.</p>
<p>A certain degree of memorization will be present in every course in every college. It depends on the subjects, too. The fact that you are asking this question makes me think that you do in fact prefer Bard because most of the classes there are seminars and you would be actively engaging with the texts and your peers–leading to a much better understanding than if you just studied the material by yourself, which is still fine if you’re an independent and very driven person.</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
<p>International95:</p>
<p>I’m in California, and everyone out here applies to the UC’s. </p>
<p>I was looking for a specific type of school: I wanted a research U with small classes. Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Chicago, Tufts, Brandies, Rochester, etc. None of them took me. I also applied to a small number of LACs whose programs I liked. </p>
<p>ocnative:</p>
<p>Berkeley is a better graduate school, sure. That said, for someone like me (looking to go to grad school and get a PH.D), the case for LACs is strong. Bard has some amazing faculty and offers a really interesting and unique education of an extremely high caliber. In the end, a school like Berkeley is better known but not necessarily better. </p>
<p>Sounds from your posts that you want the small school environment, so just go for it! Cal is great – my S is headed there – but you won’t get much hand-holding there and will need to be proactive in seeking prof relationships and research.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then you don’t want Bard. (Emory would have been ideal: research Uni with small classes. Or Rochester.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As a transfer student, you will be mainly concerned about upper division class size; you can usually look at on-line class schedules at each school to find out specifics for each school and major.</p>
<p>Generally, small upper division classes at a research university will be at:</p>
<ul>
<li>Small research universities.</li>
<li>Less popular majors.</li>
<li>Departments which favor small lecture/discussion/seminar sections (e.g. math).</li>
</ul>
<p>At Berkeley, you are probably looking at these for upper division class sizes, based on <a href=“http://schedule.berkeley.edu”>http://schedule.berkeley.edu</a> :
<p>+Requirements in other departments may have large classes.</p>
<p>I don’t know how you came up with your criteria, but offhand it seems to me that not being at a research university when you want one is more critical than class size. I don’t know much about Bard, but I’ve always understood that it’s a very unique school, which makes me think that if you’re not sure you want to go there, you shouldn’t go. Berkeley will offer more of a range, including the potential for some small classes, depending on your major.</p>
<p>Here is the thing: in Public Policy, hopefully quantitatively intense with a finite resource policy focus, in order to get into a solid grad school (one that think tanks that I would like to work for hire out of) you NEED to publish as an undergrad. I want to go to Rand, Harris, Goldman, Woodrow Wilson, or Kennedy for my MPP and Ph.D.</p>
<p>That said, I would be more than lucky to get into Sanford, LBJ, Indiana, Ford, Or Maxwell. My current interests may change, but as of now I already know what researchers I admire and want to work with- and they are at the more “brand name” institutions. If they were at West Virginia State I would go there. </p>
<p>And you are right dustypig:</p>
<p>I’m not entirely certain how “unique” Bard is and in what way. When I visited (accepted student weekend) they seemed to have broken out the fine china and the good behavior, even then I felt some of the quirkiness. I didn’t mind it, I’m just not entirely sure how to describe it or size it up; therefore, I don’t really know if I’ll fit in socially. That worries me. Can anyone describe Bard’s ethos?</p>
<p>Thank you again everyone!</p>
<p>If you want to get into a <em>top</em> PhD program in policy studies/social sciences generally, I would recommend that you go to Berkeley. No matter how well liberal arts colleges may do in terms of %, the vast majority of PhD candidates at top programs usually come from research universities for their undergraduate degrees. What helps them is that they can compete for research assistantships with famous/well known scholars. A friend of mine who goes to Yale, for instance, is working for Robert Shiller as a research assistant. Imagine the ease with which she could get into top PhD programs in economics (or in any of the social sciences, in fact) with a dazzling letter from Shiller. These positions are not easy to get, but if you do, it makes getting into top graduate school programs much easier.</p>
<p>Bard can serve you well too (in a different way) but in terms of garnering recommendations that carry a lot of weight, not so much. I’m not too sure about the scholars at Bard, though. Research the Levy Institute at Bard and the scholars who work there? See if they are published in top journals and stuff?</p>