Governors and Brooks

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>This forum has been enormously helpful to me as a first time prospective prep school parent. Thank you to all who share their knowledge and experience with schools and the process of applying. This is my first, but definitely not my last post, as I hope to give back over the next several years.</p>

<p>My son applied as a freshman day student to Phillips Andover, Phillips Exeter, Governors Academy, and Brooks School, each within comfortable driving distance from our home. He was waitlisted at Andover and Exeter, and accepted at both Governors and Brooks. He is strong in academics, athletics, and theater. Scored in low 90s on SSATs. He is a bit younger as he skipped ahead one year of school, but is physically and socially mature enough, if not yet self-organized. My son liked both Governors and Brooks very much and feels he would be happy at both schools.</p>

<p>Any insights into the following questions on Governors and Brooks would be greatly appreciated:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>After reviewing this forum extensively, it seems there is quite a bit more knowledge and reference to Brooks than to Governors. As the schools seem similar in may ways, e.g. small and supportive, strong athletics, less developed music/theater, and geographically close, I was wondering why Brooks is referenced more. Is Brooks a more well-known and/or recognized school? Is it more prominent in some way? Is Governors less known for some reason?</p></li>
<li><p>The recent acceptance letter from Brooks alluded to (did not use the term acceptance rate) an acceptance rate of less than 10% this year. That appears to be lower than Andover's 14%. Any thoughts on that? Is Brooks a "hot" school this year? e.g. a growing reputation? Or is this simply a difference in the wway the acceptance stats are presented?</p></li>
<li><p>While there are many similarities between Governors and Brooks, my general impression from two visits to each school is that Governors appears to have a bit more focus on delivering academics where Brooks appears to have a bit more focus on the broader educational "experience", e.g. self-discovery rather than traditional college prep work. Is that a fair assessment? any comments on this? Very difficult to make a good assessment on two visits and a sitting in one or two classes.</p></li>
<li><p>Any other insights into distinctions? or decision factors between the two schools? Reputation with colleges? with educators? with students? strength of alumni networks?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Any insights on these questions, or other comparisons, would be very helpful. My son will need to make a decision soon.</p>

2

<p>Unfortunately I cannot give much of a comparison as I have always been partial to Brooks. Had a friend who’s son got bounced from GA but there always three sides to such stories. That does not exclude Brooks from similar drama. My Dad went to Brooks (WWII / Harvard/ HBS) and still speaks very highly of the school and much to his chagrin neither my brother nor I attended Brooks. The school has history and notoriety. I believe they are only on their 5th Headmaster? IMO, that alone speaks very well of the school. There is no doubt in my mind there are good kids at both schools. I always enjoyed going to Brooks when my older son played them in sports. The students and faculty alike were enjoyable to speak with and the kids didn’t disperse when a faculty member joined the conversation. Brooks is a “hot” school definitely a hidden gem. My bias opinion, Brooks hands down. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>I think your admit stat uses applicants versus spaces, but they will overadmit knowing their yield won’t be 100%. Doesn’t mean Brooks isn’t very competitive–especially for the day student slots since it’s highly regarded there in Mass–but I think their admit rate is more about 25%, roughly.</p>

<p>We liked the internship programs Brooks offers, the off campus study opportunities, and the size/feel of the community. The facilities are all first rate. In the end though it felt a little more “structure heavy” (for a boarder, anyway) than the other options we were pursuing, so we did not attend the revisit. I just recently met a couple of Brooks teachers with a group of upperclass students and they were an impressive group…one teacher did note that the school is heavily focused on “outcomes”–i.e., impressive college admits, scholarships, awards, etc. etc., so you can use that however you wish.</p>

<p>I have a friend whose nephew is a recent GA grad, think it was a very positive experience for him and his family (also a day family), but the school wasn’t on our list so I don’t have any real personal insights to share there.</p>

<p>Still, overall from what I’ve seen of both schools as described here, and witnessed on site at Brooks last year, think you have the problem of having a choice between two GOOD options!</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>It could be. Andover High School has had a very difficult year. The teachers have been working to rule this year: [url=<a href=“Teachers tentative contract agreement crumbles | Local News | andovertownsman.com”>Teachers tentative contract agreement crumbles | Local News | andovertownsman.com]Teachers</a> tentative contract agreement crumbles Andover Townsman, Andover, MA<a href=“That%20is%20reputed%20to%20mean%20they%20aren’t%20writing%20college%20recommendations.%20%5Burl=Outlook for 2012: With no new contract, teachers start work-to-rule action | Local News | andovertownsman.com”>/url</a>
There have been some publicized lawsuits.
The school system is dropping Latin and German.</p>

<p>If I were a resident of Andover, I would be investigating private options too.</p>

5

<p>@Periwinkle About Brooks’ 10% admission rate is due mostly to the fact that that is the matriculation rate, not the acceptance rate. only 109 students enrolled out of 1015 that applied. I’m sure that many other students who got in but decided to go to a different school. Andover gets its 14% admit rate out of the students admitted, not just the ones who decide to come. and my opinion of Govs vs. Brooks is that Govs is stronger academically, more challenging, while Brooks is good, but maybe one tier down from govs.</p>

6

<p>Ah well, then the 10% is not what I would understand as the admission rate. On the other hand, I don’t think they would have known that in time for the letter in the acceptance package? They won’t know the matriculation rate until after April 10th. </p>

<p>So we’re still left with a mystery. Does anyone who has a link to Brooks have figures?</p>

7

<p>Since your son likes theater, it might help to know that Brooks was adverstising for a new theater director this year. Might be worth a question on re-visit day to find out what the new director is like, and if there are any special changes or expansions of the program. Current students may be excited about the new person, mad and loyal to the old, or a million things in between. i have no idea why the old one left, but sometimes change is good. Anyway, just something to ask about.</p>

8

<p>Also re: theater @ Brooks -if I recall (visited a few years ago) there WAS no theater. We were reluctantly shown a barn of some sort that they said was a theater - it reeked of must and mildew. The studio art facility was a cement bunker of some sort, and there was no dance program. My second and third kids are highly arts focused - we crossed Brooks off without applying.</p>

9

<p>@periwinkle
they were probably referencing last year’s rates, since they remain the same for most years.</p>

10

<p>I don’t know Brooks, but we did like Governors. The CC boards are self-selecting so the fact that students don’t talk about one school or another really doesn’t mean much. We put it on the hidden gems schools. If you like both schools, was there one where your child felt a slightly stronger tug? Maybe gut feeling becomes the deciding factor. Both are good schools.</p>

11

<p>We visited both schools. Brooks was overrun with geese and buried in goose poop. Governors wasn’t. 'Nuf said.</p>

12

<p>I’d urge your son to attend the revisit days for both.</p>

<p>Since the Brooks website publishes a 5 year college acceptance list and GA has the 2011 matriculation list I dug up the most recent Brooks single-year matriculation list I could find so you could compare apples to apples. It seems to me that the Brooks list is stronger, although there are many overlapping schools.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.brooksschool.org/ftpimages/277/download/College%20Matriculations%202010.pdf[/url]”>https://www.brooksschool.org/ftpimages/277/download/College%20Matriculations%202010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
[The</a> Governor’s Academy: College Matriculation](<a href=“http://www.thegovernorsacademy.org/page.cfm?p=393]The”>http://www.thegovernorsacademy.org/page.cfm?p=393)</p>

<p>The GA theater facilities would seem to be stronger. The main auditorium at Brooks is a converted barn. It has an old school “chairs bolted to the floor” feeling about it. The school also has a black box theater. GA, on the other hand, has a full performing arts center.</p>

<p>What sports does your son play? Has he met with coaches? If not, he may want to get a sense of what it would be like to play at each school. If he plays a sensitive position like goalie he’ll want to know who the coach has in the pipeline. For instance, if the current varsity goalie (or quarterback, or catcher, etc.) is a freshman you know your son is likely to remain on JV until senior year unless he is very, very good. If, on the other hand, the starter will graduate this year or next your son may step right into a varsity spot.</p>

<p>You may also want to ask how day students are integrated into the boarding populations at each school. Both have similar percentages of day students but you’ll want to think about any differences in philosophy. Are day students allowed in the dorms? Can they stay overnight? Are they welcome at all weekend activities? How many required evening activities will you need to slog back to campus for?</p>

<p>You’ll have a hard time getting useful comparisons here because very few parents have had kids at both schools. So while we can all tell you the things we love about our own kids’ school we can’t honestly assess those strengths relative to the competition.</p>

<p>As for the 10 percent figure, do you remember how it was worded? Was it perhaps something like “1000 applicants for 100 spots”? If so, the rate of acceptance would need to be higher to account for the fact that the school will not yield all students accepted.</p>

<p>Good luck with the decision!</p>

13

<p>From my son’s DC waitlist letter, I understood it that Brooks had about 1000 people apply this year. As you can see, we were one of those applicants. We had basically crossed it off the list, but when my DC got a Christmas card with a note saying “I really hope you apply” I had my DC finish up the application. </p>

<p>Brooks was the second BS we visited (we visited four, and we didn’t visit Governor’s although I had it on the list, we just didn’t make it back up to NE.) Anyway, it was during this visit that i realized that a lot of BS kids repeat a year, which personally was a red flag for me. I learned that a good percentage of the boys were repeats, and since my son would not be, and he is small already, I didn’t want him to feel like a child among men so for that reason alone I thought it not a good fit. I was told by our guide that he would put 30% or so of the boys as repeats and one of the coaches we spoke to said that everyone on the varsity team was a repeat, but that was not the case every year, and surly not with every sport. Anyway, I’m sure that Brooks is a good school. I know our day school counselor recommends both Brooks and Governor’s. I will tell you that their recruiting is quite aggressive so when you make your decision, I hope you don’t let the 1000+ number sway you.</p>

14

<p>Thanks all for your feedback on this! </p>

<p>There is a sharp distinction between the theater and the fine art facilities - with GA’s facilities being very nice while Brooks not so much as was pointed out by libbyb4 and sue22. PelicanDad’s insight that Brooks may be more outcomes based along with Sue22’s observation that the matriculation stats may be slightly stronger at Brooks supports our assessment that the college counseling may be stronger and better staffed at Brooks. The few anectdotal comments we’ve pick up, seem to support our general impression that GA may be a bit stronger academically, which is andover2016’s assertion. Because we live close to both schools, we have been to both numerous times for open houses, revisits, plays, sporting events, etc. so have a good feel for the campus and “feel”. I don’t think a new theater director has been hired at Brooks but it is something worth asking more about, as is sue22’s comments on sports team make-up. </p>

<p>I guess for us, our biggest criteria is what happens in the classroom, in terms of rigor, expectations, excitement about learning, college prep, e.g. the academic culture. Our feeling was that GA may have more of this academic culture, without the intensity of a PA or PEA. Again, so much of this is subjective guessing. I’d be interested in hearing if anyone had any insights or impressions into the academic rigor of GA relative to the prep schools considered the more rigorous academically, e.g. PA and PEA. </p>

<p>@ExieMIT - my son does have a slightly stronger tug toward one of the schools, and after sitting down this weekend and discussing, that is likely to be the deciding factor. It was comforting to me that my son’s observations in this whole process, e.g. relative strengths and weaknesses and fit, of all of the schools he applied to and visited, mirrored ours. We were careful not to give him our feedback before having him give us his. And we are all grateful that he does have a choice between two excellent schools.</p>

<p>As there was some speculation about the acceptance rate at Brooks, the wording of the recent letter, referencing this year’s accepted, not admitted students is “It was an incredibly competitive year in admissions. We received 957 applications for only 95 spots”. I guess this does not indicate the number that Brooks actually “accepted”. It could be estimated if the historical or expected “yield” for Brooks were known. I don’t know if that can be found.</p>

<p>@Andover2016 - I’d be interested in hearing more about why your feel certain that Governors academics are stronger. What leads you to that conclusion?</p>

<p>Thanks all!</p>

15

<p>^^believe in the past Brooks’ admit rate has been about 33%…but with ten applications for every spot, I’m sure it will be lower this year, depending on how they estimate their yield.</p>

16

<p>My daughter, now a sophomore at Govs, faced the same choice (Govs v. Brooks). All of us (I, my husband and my daughter) independently favored Govs after revisit days at both schools. We all have been thrilled with Govs experience, and would highly recommend it. These were our subjective feelings about the differences: 1) Govs seemed more kid-focused than Brooks. At parent/teacher sessions, the teachers at Govs enthused about their relationships with kids, including “fun” things like baking and building surfboards, while Brooks teachers talked about themselves and what a good experience it was for them to teach at school. 2) students at Govs seemed warmer and more welcoming - even when my husband and daughter drove her deposit up there on April 10, several approached them on a cold rainy day and welcomed them 3) theater at Govs is beautiful, my daughter has been in several plays and very much enjoyed her experience 4) she was disappointed in lack of arts facilities at Brooks - again felt that Govs had much nicer art and photo studies, and faculty took time to come up and talk with her individually. I’m sure opinions vary, and don’t mean to offend any Brooks parents, but these were our impressions. She struggled academically her first year (because of laziness/disorganization, not lack of ability, as she had SSAT scores in high 80s and low 90s). The school was very good at helping her to focus and organize, and even better at reassuring us that we shouldn’t despair. She has completely turned it around, and is now a high honors student. Another interesting fact - two of her very good friends live in North Andover, and chose to commute to Govs, despite distance, because they felt arts/music was stronger. So, in summary, I can’t really tell you about Brooks, but I’d recommend Govs highly.</p>

17

<p>@GovsParent: thanks so much for your thoughts and post. Very helpful to hear about your revisit impressions faced with same decision, and your daughters experience at Govs. Congratulations to her and I’m glad to hear she and you all are happy at Govs. I know my son is leaning toward a choice and his reasons sound well thought out to me. It should be a final decision by Monday and I will let you know. Thanks again.</p>