<p>I was citing truly extra ordinary and rare circumstances that might nearly assure you a spot, as I said already most acceptees are well rounded and strong candidates in a few important areas</p>
<p>We could say many strongest candidates will apply to this school, but among these strongest, most of them will be also greeted by other schools such as MIT, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Upenn, etc. I think only these who have real passion for Columbia will apply to ED application…</p>
<p>My GPA is a 3.56 UW and my SAT scores were 2260 …
I honestly think that you can’t solely rely on an upward trend CORRELATION… I am clearly an exception to your rule, but you have to remember a correlation does not mean causation 
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<p>If anything, they are both supplementary to each other. A person with a high SAT score and low GPA will appear to be wasting potential, while the reverse would imply an easy high school career. But of course, the SAT is just a test, which may seem to serve the above purpose, is really just a measure of how intelligent (or good at testing, as the case may be) you are as compared to your fellow test takers, who change as per Saturdays.</p>
<p>I’m also wondering, will colleges take into account a drastic upward trend? My GPA freshman year was a 2.0…</p>
<p>^^^Disagree. A high gpa, low sat means the applicant didn’t pay money for a Kaplan course</p>
<p>What I said is true if the highschool is known for being a rigorous, competitive school.</p>
<p>@Silence… I could not have said it better myself</p>
<p>^ I agree with Silence. There are certain thresholds that demonstrate a baseline of ability (some would argue 700 per section, but I’ve read that even Harvard admits that 650 is fine). Beyond that, the next increments are largely a result of prep, prep, prep. Some kids get there on their own, but these days the vast majority are paying to get those numbers. Of course there are also outliers on either end, but these are the exception, not the rule. If a student does not have tippy top SAT’s, but also has great grades, this is where an evaluation of AP scores, etc. becomes useful.</p>
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<p>disagree, you don’t need a kaplan course to do well, just a few books and a lot of dedication can get you a better score. </p>
<p>Also many high schools just inflate gpa too much or don’t have good competition, so they think that their valedictorian is God’s gift to humanity. The SAT at the same time is a pretty bad equalizer, but there unfortunately isn’t a better equalizer, so colleges go with this flawed system. high sat and low gpa usually means someone who has been a little lazy (or taken incredibly difficult classes) or prepped incredibly well for the test. low sat and high gpa, could mean any of:</p>
<p>a) bad test taker
b) didn’t care enough to prepare well for the test
c) easy classes
d) high school doesn’t have the smartest kids
e) had bad circumstances on the day of the test</p>
<p>2220 and… 3.8W (upwards trend - 4.2 W this year)</p>
<p>UW… 3.5</p>
<p>But that’s based on my school’s scale. Factor in the A-s as 3.67 and I have a 3.4 UW … most rigorous classes though 
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<p>Me! I work for myself in my own business ^^; Hopefully this helps my application because my gpa… Oh god… </p>
<p>But our entire school lives off A-s so relative to my school, my gpa isn’t bad at all. Our teachers refuse to give out solid As and take pride in saying “I’ve never had an A in my class” so… maybe that’s why our school simply doesn’t account for A-s and A+s <- these are nonexistent in the grading system o___O </p>
<p>Do I still stand a chance? XD The only thing compelling about me is my business that makes thousands a year but t.t my gpa… D: </p>
<p>I might retake the SAT or take the ACT for a MUCH higher score. Aiming for 2300+ or 34-36 (ok lets go with 35 :D)</p>
<p>I think it’s a possible improvement because the only thing dragging my SAT score down was my sentence completion… I don’t think anyones ever missed so many of those T_T</p>
<p>Umm, doing well on the SAT does not mean you took a Kaplan course. I got 2310 with 0 prep…</p>
<p>“A high SAT and low GPA means mommy didn’t get you a private tutor.”</p>
<p>Same thing, would you agree with that? Didn’t think so.</p>
<p>@Hamburglar… A high GPA and low scores does not necessarily mean the child had a private tutor. The correlation there is a bit of a stretch. For instance, if you’re in class each and every day, you take copious notes, and you learn a teacher’s requirements and style for conducting exams, then you can achieve great grades. Whereas, if you go into a standardized test and you’ve never seen the format or you haven’t been “coached” in how to answer the questions, unless you’re very smart, the majority of the test takers will do an average job. </p>
<p>Think about it as a normal density curve, the majority of test takers are going to fall one standard deviation to the left or to the right of the mean. The lower the scores get (or conversely the higher), the less people achieve those scores. If we are to look at those who came out with more than one standard deviation above the mean, chances are (again, we’re excluding those who went in with no prep at all) Those students had prepared, and with SAT classes becoming more and more popular, parents might be willing to pay for those services (at least those with enough money). On the other hand, in school, kids can go in for extra help (for FREE) with a teacher, and thus they can increase their GPA that way… just my $0.02</p>
<p>most people prep themselves though and score high…</p>
<p>I took the SAT beginning of sophomore year “for fun” because my parents forced me. It was a low 1800</p>
<p>I prepped myself and it shot up to a 2220</p>
<p>Most people, however, are smart enough to prepare before taking the SAT, and so it is still somewhat of an IQ test </p>
<p>I’m not sure if that made sense o__O lacking sleep haha</p>
<p>confidentialcoll wrote:
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<p>A preparation book (such as Kaplan) is about $30…let’s say even say $50. You think Kaplan is stupid enough to make a course that costs ~$1000 have the same results as a preparation book? There is a phrase that says “You get what you pay for”. It’s all about the money. If you want a good/high SAT grade you need to take a Kaplan course. Of course there are exceptions to this general rule, but I’m talking about the majority.</p>
<p>If you had quoted the rest of my post you would have seen that I wrote:</p>
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<p>In the above scenario, these (a,b,e) would be valid but:</p>
<p>a) bad test taker---------->Then how does he have a high GPA in a competitive school.
b) didn’t care enough to prepare well for the test------->Didn’t take a Kaplan course lol
e) had bad circumstances on the day of the test-------->Valid, but colleges don’t know this…they could only guess so.</p>
<p>Hamburglar Wrote:
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<p>There are exceptions to everything.</p>
<p>Also no I wouldn’t agree with that because there is something called “Tutoring” at schools (at least in NYC schools). Just go to your teachers after school and ask for help. In the US, you do not need a tutor to get good school grades.</p>
<p>@Silence</p>
<p>Between your logic and mine, I think we scared him off, there is nothing he can say to contradict our reasoning :)</p>
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<p>I completely concur with this statement</p>
<p>@Loopy</p>
<p>You say
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<p>Okay, I’ll accept that premise, but i raise you this. How about those that do NOT have “time” to self- study? Now, i know what you’re thinking, “everyone has SOME time.”</p>
<p>What if those children have more than enough homework on their plates, varsity athletics, and maybe just maybe they might have a job (Because they need to help support their family). It doesn’t seem so far fetched.</p>
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<p>my contention was never that the course doesn’t help. it was that you do not need a course to do well, and doing well does not in any way necessitate that you took a course. In my experience a solid course raised someone’s score, but nearly the same gains were seen by friends who diligently studied and practiced from books. Many of my friends and some of cousins scored 2100-2200 + without taking a single course anywhere, I was one of them. Your phrase “you get what you pay for” is a heuristic and a pretty bad one at that which doesn’t always apply. Kaplan feeds off the immense anxiety that students feel about the SAT and realizes there are rich parents willing to pay big $$ if parents feel it might help S/D’s SAT scores in any way.</p>
<p>It’s comforting to think that anyone who does well on a dumb test had extra money and extra help, but here’s evidence to the contrary: </p>
<p>[SAT</a> Prep - Are SAT Prep Courses Worth the Cost?](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/f/SAT-test-prep.htm]SAT”>SAT Prep - Are SAT Prep Courses Worth the Cost?)</p>
<p>Lol at “scaring me off”, I’m not sitting at my computer smacking F5 to see your response.</p>
<p>OF COURSE you don’t need a private tutor to have a high GPA, that’s ridiculous and you missed my point completely. I’m saying that making statements like “low SAT means you didn’t take a Kaplan course” and “If you want a good/high SAT grade you need to take a Kaplan course” is JUST AS ridiculous as saying a low GPA means no private tutor.</p>
<p>Also, saying you’ve never seen the format of the SAT before is just untrue… You’ve been taking standardized state tests for years, which have almost identical format and question types as the SAT. The only thing different is the essay. Plus, most kids take the PSAT and take the SAT multiple times. Including Silence, who originally made the Kaplan course comment.</p>
<p>First time I took the SAT I had no prep and got 2160. My essay was crap because I wasn’t expecting/prepared for the nature of the section. Second time, still no prep but now had experience, I got 2310 and did much better on the essay. Almost everyone I know took the SAT with no prep, and a lot of my friends did just fine. Maybe at your “specialized school” or whatever, private tutors and expensive Kaplan courses are the standard, but where I live they are very rare. So that statement just comes off as a hilarious excuse for bad performance.</p>
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<p>My point was: when someone has a high GPA and a low SAT there could be many reasons for this, it’s not just that they didn’t take a course, it could also be that their high school is used to lower standards or class load is easy among other possible reasons. </p>
<p>Also a bad test taker could have a high GPA at a competitive school, the SAT and standardized tests in general (like the GMAT or LSAT) have test material that you can’t explicitly prepare for, emphasizing test taking skills rather than retention of knowledge and being able to apply specific concepts like in-class exams emphasize.</p>
<p>Agree with Confidential. Also, some people study their butts off and are good at pure memorization, but are not actually intelligent. These people can spit out close to 4.0 GPAs in tough courses, but have low SATs. The #3 girl in our class has a 3.96 and the toughest schedule, but only a 1790. She’s just not incredibly intelligent, but is a very hard worker.</p>
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<p>Haha, clearly i was just kidding about the “scaring you off” part. However, you tell us your circumstance and that’s great and all, but you don’t represent a population. Maybe you’re just a natural test taker. We’re (Silence and I) both making reference to the average population, not those like you who can prosper without preparing. To say that everyone you know did fine, isn’t an accurate reflection of a population, it could very well be a coincidence (not saying it is, just saying that it could be). </p>
<p>Although i see what you’re saying, obviously we’re not talking in absolute statements. I would say, though, improving on your standardized testing because of a course is not equivalent to going in for extra help to raise your GPA ( thus, taking a private tutor out of the equation completely). </p>
<p>Regarding the “not seeing the format before” statement, I see your reasoning and I’ll accept it. However, from an emotional standpoint, sitting in for an SAT as opposed to a PSAT or any other practice test is a completely different animal. Knowing that the SAT will directly affect their future (Okay, maybe PSAT can do that too if you do really well, but take the PACT for instance) can wreak havoc on a jittery student’s emotional response, resulting in something that we know as “test- taker’s anxiety.” There is more than just the emotional aspect though. (We have to consider that too though, think about all the drama that high school students can encounter - a girlfriend/boyfriend trouble, parents fighting at home, etc - that can also affect testing performance).</p>
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<p>To further my point, you have no idea how many people are pessimistic, it’s unreal. I see it each and every day at school, people freaking out about a test or a paper or the sort. Then when those same people go into a standardized test, they have the same mentality as during the normal school day, it’s become habit to freak out about “failing a test.” </p>
<p>While those courses may be the norm in my area, I personally have not utilized them. Though, I certainly would have benefited and wished that I had. I know several students who have been taking SAT prep courses since FRESHMAN year in high school, and they ultimately resulted with scores above 2380. Some students just aren’t geared to take tests if they’re not coached in the proper manner. Some students are, it’s as simple as that.</p>
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<p>While there are some students that simply regurgitate information, at least at my school, the teachers force us to go above and beyond. So, while you can memorize all the information you want, we’re asked to go beyond the information, draw conclusions, make connections - in other words - things that you cannot do by simple memorization</p>
<p>Not everyone is as adept at test taking…I worked for my 2220. I’ve taken the test three times and in March I scored a 1940. Granted, I got a 580 in writing because I bubbled in my answers wrong, but still. It was bad. The next time, I scored a 2050 without prep, but this was just my writing score improving. Then, over the summer…I studied quite a bit. I did not take a prep class, but I did buy several SAT study guides, worked specifically on math and writing…and I was well rewarded with my 2220. </p>
<p>Overall, I saw a 190 point improvement in writing, 40 point improvement in reading, and 50 point improvement in math. I did not become THAT much smarter in the four or whatever months…what I did was studied. Particularly with writing, I learned the specific grammar errors they test on and in math I brushed up on my geometry that I’d forgotten. </p>
<p>An SAT score is HIGHLY subjective, I would say, and a high score CAN reflect natural intelligence, but more often it reflects merely studying and hard work. I feel a person’s GPA/AP scores/courseload should ALWAYS be considered higher than their SAT scores because it’s much more difficult to BS that for four years, but I know that is often not the case.</p>
<p>Is a 2170 on the SAT out of range for the Ivies if I have a 4.0 uw gpa and a 4.67 weighted (it may be 4.7 actually…)? I’m biracial (AA and white), play two varsity sports and have other ec’s too, including community service and roller figure skating (sport, went to state every year).</p>