I read there is grade deflation for students on the pre-med track at U of M. Would love to hear comments, opinion, experiences.
yup premed is tough at umich but I think its less cutthroat than cornell or johns hopkins premed
It’s nor so much grade deflation as weedout. All students were top students in high school and now only the top 20% will have med school worthy GPA. The premed classes will have half students with grades below B- no matter how good these students were in high school. So, it’s not grade deflation. It’s being a top student in high school competing with the best in the state and the country.
@MYOS1634 would you say umich weedout premed is not as bad as cornell and johns hopkins premed?
yup its the weedout classes at umich because a lot of unsure people think they want to be doctors until they take their first orgo chem class and fail and switch to something else. its actually good to have weedout classes because it lets you know earlier whether you can handle medicine as a career.
@MYOS1634 so this begs the question of why top students who want to go to Medical school should choose to attend the most competitive schools in our country if the intense competition with top peer students could hurt their gpa? Wouldn’t a top student be better off choosing a solid but less prestigious school (say top 50 to 100 schools in USN&WR) where they have a better chance to beat the competition for the top grades, so they increase their chance for med school? I understand med schools don’t care about the undergrad school (I personally think they should give more weight to it than they apparently do) but only about the gpa in premed courses and overall gpa plus standardized test scores plus research, work, shadowing, volunteer or internship experience to show demonstrated interest? For in-state Michigan students who are top of their high school class perhaps they should choose Wayne State or lesser schools in the state (even lesser than Michigan State University) to increase their chance to get the highest grades during undergrad for med school?
Because not all premeds are sure they want to go to med school but they figure why not and being at a top school they’ll have a good major no matter what.
Because many private universities don’t weed (although there’s always attrition due to students discovering majors they like better or doing poorly.)
Because high school seniors don’t always know how premed admissions works.
Because some premeds are tired of being top of their class in high school and want to be among peers for once.
@Eeeee127 :
I don’t know. I think the weed out is as strict but the student quality is slightly higher at Cornell and JHU.
Also, it happens right first semester when freshmen try to handle college, calculus, chemistry, biology, the labs, and fall on their face. (My advice : if the college offers biology 1 in the Spring start with it then.) And then it keeps going until orgo decimates the rest. And of those who survived all that, only half will get into any med school. So, if you want to be a general practitioner, think carefully about PA programs.
@Eeeee127 I agree that a lot of people attempt premed without good understanding of the whole pathway.
I do not believe though that being a good doctor depends on how well student does in orgo. This is just a course designed for one singe mechanistic purpose-to control the numbers. Is is true that in Michigan some basic sciences courses have a deliberate limit the number of good grades like As/B+?
@trackmbe3 med schools do look at undergrad school but its a very small factor. if you want to go to harvard or johns hopkins med school it def does not hurt going to a prestigious undergrad. also prestigious undergrads challenge undergrad students more for premed making them better prepared for med school. also umich is a great value if you are in state.
@trackmbe3 i don’t think its a good idea choosing a less prestigious school just so you can get a high gpa. many people change their mind about doing premed in college and you still want to go to an excellent college like umich thats good at every field.
@blueorchid90 because they have to make sure med schools produce excellent doctors. there are too many students who want to be a doctor and they have to use orgo chem and other classes to weed out students because med school spots and residency spots are very limited.
@trackmbe3 I think students select better schools because of the whole experience, learning how to mature and be a thinking, socially adept and independent adults; not just of one single purpose to focus on numbers and get a certain GPA.
@Eeeee127 Excellent doctor does not need to know orgo in detail, just enough to understand biochem and human physiology. Nutritionist or pharmacist needs to master orgo. Not trying to be cynical, but hard to imagine doctors using orgo in patient’s care, including residency.
@blueorchid90 while its true doctors don’t really use orgo, premed students still have to take a lot of clases like calc 2 that they will not use ever again. basically every career has to take “useless” college classes that they won’t ever use in their career. orgo is a way of weeding out people because there are very limited medical school spots. if there were no weed out classes like orgo, everyone would be applying to med school with many being rejected and having to switch to a different career or major.
Ok…here’s the reason why you want to go to UMich for premed…even though it’s insanely competitive, rather than an easier school where you’ll get easier A’s… MCAT scores. UMich premed grads have much higher MCAT scores and seem overall better prepared for this crucial test. UMich has a reputation for rigor that is respected. Pairing that with an outstanding MCAT score, and a slightly lower gpa might not be world ending.
My kiddo complains a lot about the competitiveness of pre-med students. She’s taking a pre-med program, but she’s interested in research and teaching life sciences…not so much into being a practicing doctor. She’s being brutalized by Orgo 2 currently, but holding her own… it’s tough. She’s glad to be on the other side of Calculus 2, and Genetics, and Virology…lol. The competition can be pretty crazy and the material is dense and difficult.
But yeah, she wouldn’t choose an easier path than UMich. (we’ve asked her!) She’s in love with the school, the opportunities, the quality of her education, the people she’s met, contacts she’s made, etc.
When you have a lot of competitive brilliant people trying to absorb information…lots of really good study groups tend to be available. That’s one upside.
@MaryGJ Thank you! This is the response I was hoping to hear. We are looking for a school with brilliant people, active social life and strong academics, Not just for a good GPA. . Btw: love your writing style.
“I don’t know. I think the weed out is as strict but the student quality is slightly higher at Cornell and JHU.”
That is no longer the case MYOS. The difference in the quality of the students at Michigan is indistinguishable from the quality of the students at Cornell.