<p>MichiganGeorgia - good to know. I certainly didn’t say it’s the end all be all - just that a school would question it. Then again, I’m sure your son also had an excellent transcript without the AP Physics - one would need that for Georgia Tech. And 9 AP’s is very impressive. Again - that would actually be almost impossible at our high school.</p>
<p>@pizzagirl, you have made some valid points about the parent’s lack of cultural awareness of the US educational system and the danger of pushing his son too hard. But according the the parent, physics is this boy’s top academic interest and he likes to talk about physics, yet you repeatedly act as though the parent is just flat-out lying.</p>
<p>Do you have a STEM degree? Everyone in my family does. STEM tends to be very sequential. A general approach of zigging and zagging can lead to costly extra years of college. I think planning is a good idea. I don’t understand why so many posters are offended by the idea of a plan and act as though a plan can never be changed if circumstances or interests change, or that the existence of a plan means that someone is being forced unwillingly into something.</p>
<p>This parent wants to get his son into as many science classes as possible and that seems like a horrifying thing to many posters on this thread. </p>
<p>I have also been planning out my 8th graders schedule. Does that horrify you? There’s a page for a 4-year plan in the course catalog that we are meant to fill out–the school expects a plan. Would it horrify you any less if I said that my goal is to help get her into more art rather than more physics? Double standard?</p>
<p>I think we’ve sort of gotten off track here. The OP’s DS is in 7th grade. My youngest is also in 7th grade. Figuring out which AP classes to take is a least a couple years off.
I figure the best thing to do at this point is to make sure they do their homework and have fun before the stress of high school/colleges sets in.</p>
<p>Also what a kid is interested in in 7th grade may not be what they are interested in by the time they get to college. DS13 wanted to be a doctor until he did a summer program at Northwestern in Chicago and watched an autopsy up close…That was the end of that idea.:)</p>
<p>mathyone makes a good point. Our school makes a decision about kids accelerating 1 year in math at the end of 5th grade. That one decision, based on the performance of a 10 year old on some standardized tests, determines if that student can take AP calculus as a senior in high school. And while it isn’t the end of the world if a child can’t take it, a kid who is strong in math and science might feel bored or discouraged if they are set back a year in math. This also impacts their science (as they can’t be accelerated in science without the math - school rules). </p>
<p>So, is AP Physics necessary? I guess that’s up for debate. But, I would say not having calculus when you want to attend Georgia Tech, Carnegia Mellon, RPI, etc might be a detractor. Again, I’m not saying it’s an absolute - I’m sure kids get into top engineering programs without having taken calculus. But it is not helpful to be without it. So, unfortunately, decisions that are made as early as 6th grade do matter and have a big impact later on. I am not saying there aren’t work arounds. I’m not saying it matters for everyone. I’m not saying you will be flipping burgers without it. And I’m not saying you can’t get into college without it. Just want to be very clear on what I am not saying. </p>
<p>This student clearly has strong math aptitude, and the parent states he has an interest. Why can’t we take that at face value? Yes, the original suggestion made by the OP was over the top, but it doesn’t negate everything.</p>
<p>VMT, if this kid were not on track to have calculus as a senior I might be more concerned, but he is. He’s just not on track to take linear equations as a senior. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea to jump back on the more advanced math track. In our system it’s so hard to get an extra year of acceleration in middle school that the kids who want to do calculus as a junior generally find a way to get there by doing a math course in summer school. (In the past you couldn’t take two maths at once because we had an integrated math curriculum, now it might be possible.) I think we all agree though that the only way we’d consider a grade repeat is if you transferred to a high quality prep school where the rest of the curriculum would be likely to be a step above what he already has, and there would not be the social stigma of repeating a grade.</p>
<p>(I have a friend from high school who did just that - though she had very iffy grades at the middle school she hated along with very high IQ scores - anyway she flourished at the prep school.)</p>
<p>@MichiganGeorgia, unless I misunderstood something, the OP’s son is now in 8th grade and I would guess this post was prompted because he is being asked to register for his high school classes. </p>
<p>Planning does matter for STEM. For instance, in our high school, you won’t finish calculus if you don’t double up on math in 9th or 10th grade. That means you need to plan by the middle of 9th grade at the latest whether you want to be in BC calculus as a senior. I’m sure you can still get into a top STEM program without taking BC calculus but the fact is, there are 100,000 students out there who did, and you will be competing with them.</p>
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<p>The minimum high school science prerequisities for college study in science (or engineering) is the high school science course corresponding to any science course you will take in college. AP level is not necessary, although taking it can be a bonus. Any reasonably good student in a decent high school should be able to take one each of high school biology, chemistry, and physics.</p>
<p>Math-wise, completion of precalculus and trigonometry is the minimum (the OP’s son’s current track will have him more advanced than that already, completing calculus BC as a high school senior).</p>
<p>So I don’t see why the OP should be so concerned about him “falling behind” in scheduling. It is not like three years of high school physics will really help the student learn more physics before college.</p>
<p>Part of the benefit of getting the boy an extra math class this summer or next year will be social. The mathy kids from his grade are now a year ahead of him in math, and he won’t have the benefit of being in math class with them during high school if he doesn’t catch up. I wouldn’t underestimate the value of a stimulating and like-minded peer group.</p>
<p>I do think accelerating the math a year would be a good idea, and also the AP physics. I think there is a lot to be said for a solid all-around science background, for everyone, really. I often wish that the people tailgating me on the highway knew more about physics or that those demanding antibiotics from their doctors for viral diseases understood biology. But there isn’t time for everything, so prioritize what is most important to him and really don’t worry about the rest. He can always read books or take classes in college if he hasn’t satisfied his interests. Make sure he’s happy and involved in activities.</p>
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<p>I was a math major and my spouse was a biology major, both at a school generally considered elite even by CC standards.</p>
<p>No one has said it’s not a good idea to have a general plan, or that taking AP Physics in general is a bad idea for a kid who likes physics. We’re responding to the over-the-top nature of OMG-the-sky-will-fall-if-I-don’t-cram-every-physics-course-down-my-kid’s-throat and tutor him, too.</p>
<p>I agree mathmom - he is on track for AP calc as a senior and that would certainly be enough. I only meant to use the math tracking as an example of how decisions made in middle school matter later on. So, planning things out in 8th grade is not a bad idea. There is such a thing as too much planning and there needs to be room for blossoming interests. I personally think this student will absolutely be fine, do well, get into an excellent college, etc. The OP is definitely worrying more than I would.</p>
<p>Regarding the question the OP posted about maintaining interest in physics. This is a valid concern and you could help with some not-too-technical books (if he seems interested in reading them, don’t keep giving him book after book if the first book or two just sits around untouched). You could do activities with him like building stuff, maybe an electronics kit. You can look for videos. I can’t think of any physics-specific videos but I can highly recommend the “Building Big” documentaries which have a small amount of physics in them. There are lots of documentaries about space; he might like the one about Apollo 13 (I didn’t think the movie was as good, but it’s better than nothing if you cannot locate the documentary). If he likes youtube music videos, he might get a kick out of the large hadron rap [Large</a> Hadron Rap - YouTube](<a href=“Large Hadron Rap - YouTube”>Large Hadron Rap - YouTube)
I think there are lots of ways to engage him without making him sit down and work problems. Ultimately he needs to decide if it’s something he wants to do. If he decides he doesn’t like it and wants nothing more to do with physics, that may be disappointing to you, but it’s much better to decide that in high school or early in college than halfway through a PhD program, or after 5 years of misery working at a job he detests.</p>
<p>Agree that son should not be held back. Not a good time to adjust for his age right now because his friends will be critical for his adjustment to the HS social scene. </p>
<p>Several great options exist, though:
- AP Statistics is a VERY easy course. Suggest you plan for BC calc senior year instead of floating through AP stat. See #3 below:</p>
<p>2) Repeat 9th grade in a top-notch day or boarding school (commonly done). Check out the financial aid calculator at Exeter for example, if aid is a concern. It is free to students with family income under 75K (including transportation, room and board, books and a computer). </p>
<p>3) Many students self-study APs, and colleges are very impressed by this. Ask the HS if they will let him sign up for the AP exams. Then use existing AP curriculum available in books or on-line to self-study (even full AP courses are on-line, including free from MIT Open Courseware). AP statistics is very straightforward and can be mastered quickly. There are threads all over CC with kids self-studing APs. Enviro is another AP accessible to self-study (advise doing it after AP chem). </p>
<p>4) Take summer or dual enrollment college classes. Send separate transcript. Colleges like this too. College multivariate calculus trumps AP statistics.</p>
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<p>The student is already accelerated in math by a year (will complete calculus BC as a high school senior).</p>
<p>The student will have the opportunity to take AP physics or any other advanced science course of his choice as a high school senior, presuming he takes regular or honors biology, chemistry, and physics in his first three years of high school. And it is quite possible that he will have elective space to take more than one AP or advanced science course in high school, even without having to do anything unusual with scheduling like summer classes (or the odd scheme of holding him back in eighth grade).</p>
<p>What’s the big rush?</p>
<p>@ucb, he is a year behind what is the norm for honor students in his school. I think it would be best if he catches up to them, considering that he has a 99th percentile math SAT score. He was either misplaced or just too young/immature when the tracking decision was made in 5th grade.</p>
<p>You say that algebra1 in 8th grade is “accelerated” but in middle schools which start algebra1 in 7th grade, that is the honors track. I don’t see why a kid with his math skills shouldn’t be in that. Yes, he’s a year advanced compared to students who don’t start algebra until 9th grade, but in our school system, those students are unlikely to attend college at all, so saying that a very bright kid who will likely attend a good STEM program is a year ahead of the kid looking to be a cashier out of high school isn’t saying much.</p>
<p>". Ask the HS if they will let him sign up for the AP exams. Then use existing AP curriculum available in books or on-line to self-study (even full AP courses are on-line, including free from MIT Open "</p>
<p>Why would you “ask the high school”? Just sign up with the College Boars to take the exams if you are so inclined. You don’t need permission. Why would you?</p>
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<p>Except that the two-years-up kids are described by the OP as 97th+ percentile for math, and she describes her own one-year-up kid as 90th percentile for math. The school offers MathCounts, which those 97th+ kids do, and her son chooses not to participate. It sounds like he’s well-placed with a like-minded peer group - just not the group the OP would prefer he be with. (Statistically speaking, 97th percentile is as many standard deviations from 90th percentile as 90th is from 75th. There’s a decent gap there.)</p>
<p>“My kid is poorly placed because of a single-instance test administered several years ago” is an argument I’m sympathetic to, in large part because my own kid has been poorly placed due to bureaucracy. “My kid is well-placed based on his own abilities and interests, but behind other kids who are significantly higher-performing and more internally motivated” is not an argument I’m sympathetic to.</p>
<p>@allyphoe, this kid got a math SAT score as a 7th grader which put him in the 99th percentile of middle schoolers taking the SAT. It’s pretty impressive for a kid to do so well on a test of algebra and geometry when he hasn’t even taken those classes yet. </p>
<p>Mathcounts is mostly algebra and geometry based. The kid who is taking algebra is definitely at a disadvantage compared to the kids who are already in geometry. That alone could keep him off the team. Our school can send 10 kids to Mathcounts. If he’s in a large and competitive middle school, he could easily not make this cut when the other kids have the advantage of being in geometry. It also depends on individual problem-solving style. These math competitions tend to stress speed, and accuracy working under pressure. Not everyone has those skills. Not everyone who excels in math even likes to do competition math. The kids who do really well tend to obsess about it and spend a lot of time preparing. Doing well in mathcounts does show ability, but not doing particularly well doesn’t mean lack of ability. One of the kids my daughter did mathcounts with was good but not one of the best. I can’t remember if he made the official “team” of 4, or if he even made top 10 as a 7th grader. But his high school math project was received extremely well in siemens.</p>
<p>I looked at other posts from OP. In those posts the kid is a 7th grader who has taken practice tests for the SAT and is planning on taking it for real for Duke TIP… of course maybe the OP has 2 kids one in 7th and one in 8th… However I’m thinking that his DS is in 7th grade and he’s looking at what to do after next school year…</p>