GRE score question (I know you're all sick of these...)

<p>I just took the GRE. Crap. Let's just say I did not do as well as I would have liked.</p>

<p>If I wanted to make excuses, I would dwell on the fact that I prepped for it in 2 weeks and have been out of school now for 6 years. But as I felt like I knew the words, etc. on the test, I'm not sure if that matters. Apparently when I felt the questions were not that hard, it's because they had adjusted me downwards. Crapity Crap.</p>

<p>So on the practice tests I was nailing 750V. On the actual test I slid to a 680V. Not so good. And as I am eventually going for my history PhD, I really need a good score so my app won't be passed over by adcoms. (Funnily enough, I haven't had a real math class since 1991 and didn't review the Q at all - got a 650Q.) Crapity Crapity Crap.</p>

<p>I'm going into an history MA program in the fall (not a top one, but a place I can hopefully do some decent research and get a high GPA) for which this GRE is perfectly fine. I'm held to a particular geographic area for the next 3 years by my husband's med residency, so I went for the MA instead of waiting and twiddling my thumbs. I had a 3.83 cum GPA (4.0 major) at my small LAC undergrad. I hold no illusions about history PhDs and the job market, so I really need to aim for a top 20 program to maximize my chances for a position in academia, which at one point I thought was within reach, but with this crappy GRE score, I'm not so sure. I'll retake it again, next spring or summer probably. So the question is, what is the point where top 20 adcoms for a european history PhD applicant don't even seriously consider your app? 700V? 730V? (And please don't tell me that it doesn't matter that much - we all know that it's used as a cut off, and that cut off is higher for the top schools.)</p>

<p>For those with information, I beg of you - help!</p>

<p>First of all, your scores aren't terrible, and if you have great references from your new MA profs, and they are well known and respected in the field, it will help make up for your not-stellar GREs. But to be fair, ask yourself why you only spent 2 weeks preparing for something so important. I know you were doing fine on the practice tests, but many people (like myself) don't score as high on the real thing. In fact, I answered HARDER questions, including at least one in the math that I hadn't seen before anywhere, and still got a lower score than some of my practice tests. </p>

<p>You can take the GRE again, but schools will still see your first GRE. Suppose you get much better scores. They will wonder why. Were you sick that day? Are you just not good at mutiple choice? Or are you the kind of person who does only a halfway job until the going gets tough, and then you finally buckle down and study? Think about how you are going to handle this. What is your score on the writing section? If you did well on it, that can help some too.</p>

<p>You might be better to put the time and energy into your research. Your other posts show you to be enthusiastic and informed about your field. Your new MA profs will probably be able to help you know what to do.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Jack</p>

<p>I think you're GRE scores are fine. I think your work in your MA program is much more important. I will say, however, that getting into a top program can be incredibly tough. I applied to history Ph.D programs this year (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.) and I study European history too :) but didn't get in anywhere. Now I applied out of undergrad and being in a masters program may help but European history is not sexy right now and it is REALLY hard to get into these programs. They accept very few people. But I applied where I did because, like you, I was scared about career prospects if I didn't go to a top school. I cannot tell you why I was not accepted. My GREs were 760V, 660M, 6W and I have a very high GPA. What I'm saying is that unfortunately every little thing can count. But I also think that if you are stellar in your MA you will have good shot, GRE notwithstanding.
I know I wandered a bit off topic, but...</p>

<p>Thanks - I'm hoping at the very least that my GRE scores won't hurt. And believe me, I realize how difficult the whole medieval history field is right now.</p>

<p>My MA profs and I discussed the importance of my getting into a good program. And although I realize I may not get into an HYP or Berkeley, I would be pleased with a UNC/Mich/VA as well - I fugure that a top 20 uni with a great dissertation will work too.</p>

<p>As for taking only 2 weeks to study for the GRE, it wasn't my plan. Various personal life factors went into it, including not knowing here we were going to be living until a month ago (my husband is entering residency, and we could have ended up anywhere of 11 places in the country). I could have waited on the GREs and applied a month later, but then I wouldn't have been eligible for the assistantship I applied for. So I did my very best to meet the deadline, which was more important than a first-time stellar GRE. I probably crammed as much studying into my 2 weeks as most people do in 3 months, and it was effective studying, so I didn't take it lightly.</p>

<p>I would think that if I take the GRE again next year after being in a grad program for a year and score higher, that would rather explain why I scored higher, particularly as I have been out of school now for 6 years. Somehow I doubt they will hold a second, higher score against me if I have high grades and good recs from my grad program.</p>

<p>Josephine - If you don't mind my asking, what area of European do you study? Did you apply to any programs besides HYP?</p>

<p>I applied to HYP, plus UPenn, Stanford, and Columbia. I thought about applying to Michigan but decided against it since locale-wise it didn't appeal. I study modern Euro., 18th/19th century, Germany and France mostly. </p>

<p>What master's program are you in now? I think if you do well in it that will help you a lot.</p>

<p>I do medieval Europe (not Renaissance - WAY too overcrowded, early is more interesting), particularly ecclesiastical. I'm entering into U of Louisville in the fall. We'll be in Louisville for 3 years while my husband finishes residency, and then we go on to wherever I get accepted. They're going to help me do a few conferences and I'm going to try and publish.</p>

<p>Modern Euro is a tough field, esp. Germany and France (I hear British is brutal, too). I don't plan on applying to Columbia, as living in NYC with children just isn't going to happen. "Here ya go, kids - let's move you out of your nice house and yard to a tiny apartment in the middle of a huge city - isn't this fun?" :) But the others I will likely apply to - plus several others (UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, UVa, UMich, UWisc, possibly UChicago if they get a western medievalist in the next couple years - right now they focus on Byzantine - and possibly Toronto, although I can't do that if my husband can't practice in Canada). I'm going to try and put together the best list I can of places I can do great research, all within the top 20, without limiting myself to HYP.</p>

<p>680 verbal is pretty good. It's well above the 90th percentile range, probably closer to 95th or so.</p>

<p>I wouldn't sweat it.</p>

<p>Well, I've heard medieval can be tough too, though I find it very interesting and have dabbled in it. But yeah Modern Euro. is one of the worse, I'm in a catch-22 because on one hand the broader field covers a lot and there are lots of people who are applying for it, on the other my personal areas of interest are fairly unusual (in the US at least) and Americans tend to perceive it as not that relevant.
I think you are doing the right thing in applying to universities besides HYP, if I was applying again I would do that (I didn't because my advisor scared me into thinking I wouldn't get a job unless it was HYP or the equivalent) I also think that Canadian schools are an option I neglected so if your husband's ability to practice doesn't limit you to the US that would be a good alternative. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>Yeah, it's 95th percentile overall. A little lower for history applicants, though - history people do well on the verbal. I just want to be able to get into the initial cut, ya know?</p>

<p>I felt a little better after talking to my soon-to-be advisor this past week. He pointed out that if I do well in my MA, that's going to matter far more than my GRE score. I'm just afraid of the potential knee-jerk reaction, but I guess I'll do what I can and move on from there. I'm particularly interested in Berkeley's joint PhD in Medieval Studies, but I guess we'll see what happens.</p>

<p>Luckily for me, ecclesiastical history is becoming a bit hotter (thanks Dan Brown!), and there have been several interesting document discoveries that feed into it, and my topic of interest is considered rather relevant to the big picture yet still relatively unique, SO...I'll keep my fingers crossed.</p>

<p>Incidentally, it seems I am smack in the average for GRE and GPA for Berkeley, which indicates to me that I won't be eliminated on that basis, anyway. I'm certainly feeling better than after I took the damn test, that's for sure.</p>

<p>DespSeekPhd,</p>

<p>I can't say that I know for certain if this applies to history PhD admissions, but I'll say it anyway:</p>

<p>Two professors and a grad student I've spoken with about poli sci admissions have suggested that the GRE is a bit of a "green flag/red flag" sort of deal. Score within the median range, and it's a green flag. Score too low, and it's a red flag. Scoring exceptionally well isn't likely to give you a much higher chance of getting into top PhD programs, but it will help when it comes to procuring funding down the road. Many of the best grants and fellowships seem to have GRE results in mind.</p>

<p>If you're in the median range, then you're fine. It sounds to me like you're now just going to have to show why you're not just another high scoring overachiever.</p>

<p>Do GRE scores really matter that much in graduate school admissions? I remember getting dinged from 9 out of the 10 schools I applied to back in 2003. I had undergraduate research experience, good rec letters, and GRE scores of 760 verbal, 800 math, and 5.5 writing. Maybe it depends on the field? (I was applying to Computer Science graduate programs.)</p>

<p>Wow, those are some nice scores.</p>

<p>Maybe your essay had a comma splice? :p</p>

<p>I think the thumb-rule is that GRE scores can keep you out, but they can't guarantee admission.</p>

<p>As for your 2 week study spree, sorry if I was offensive. Though it is probably true that you studied more in 2 weeks than some people do in 2-3 months, that probably isn't true of students competing for top spots. And since at that level, admissions are looking for anything to fault, so if you take the GRE again and do much better, emphasize your improvement is due to being back in school, rather than having a less hectic personal life!</p>

<p>Jack</p>